Question Discussion

[Spekkio]

don't forget to tabulate another associated gilsink for khroma: pickaxes. assuming the average estimate i hear for picks/khroma is correct, about 10 stacks or 120, priced at 180g each. 180*120=21,600 gil. this means that assuming jeuno AH price of 1%+50 with ingots at 900k, 9,050 per ingot for a total of about 50k gil lost per ingot bought. at 12 ingots per body, that's a total of 600k per body created pulled from the economy. while not staggering, these expenditures add up.

[Wolfknight]

don't forget to tabulate another associated gilsink for khroma: pickaxes. assuming the average estimate i hear for picks/khroma is correct, about 10 stacks or 120, priced at 180g each. 180*120=21,600 gil. this means that assuming jeuno AH price of 1%+50 with ingots at 900k, 9,050 per ingot for a total of about 50k gil lost per ingot bought. at 12 ingots per body, that's a total of 600k per body created pulled from the economy. while not staggering, these expenditures add up.

this might be problem but other other source of khroma generates a good bit of gil 2k each from chest per run and 8~24k npcing junk drops so 4 ISNMs per khroma so lets say avg of 112k gil([2k x 4 x 6] + [16k x 4]) added to system per ore from ISNM if just 1/3 or even 1/4 of khroma come from ISNM it's fine.

[Spekkio]

don't forget to tabulate another associated gilsink for khroma: pickaxes. assuming the average estimate i hear for picks/khroma is correct, about 10 stacks or 120, priced at 180g each. 180*120=21,600 gil. this means that assuming jeuno AH price of 1%+50 with ingots at 900k, 9,050 per ingot for a total of about 50k gil lost per ingot bought. at 12 ingots per body, that's a total of 600k per body created pulled from the economy. while not staggering, these expenditures add up.

this might be problem but other other source of khroma generates a good bit of gil 2k each from chest per run and 8~24k npcing junk drops so 4 ISNMs per khroma so lets say avg of 112k gil([2k x 4 x 6] + [16k x 4]) added to system per ore from ISNM if just 1/3 or even 1/4 of khroma come from ISNM it's fine.

touche. i disagree with the exact estimation of the recovery, but i'd venture to guess it's a bit more flat in terms of cost than my grim prediction had been.

[orson]

Ultimately I think we should be asking ourselves is do we like the useless grind? Random pop and drop systems are disappointing and offer little reward for the amount time spent. People are getting frustrated with retarded drop systems like Dynamis or Kings where it can take like 3-4 years to get all five of your friends with the same job their gear. The question shouldn't be whether Khroma drop rates are fair or not it should be what is SE doing to keep the player happy. Endless grinding is not what keeps the majority people playing it's adding new content. New content should be better and things like kings should be decreased in difficultly and generally drop rates should be increased all around the board. I can't believe that mass droves of thfs quit after they made the Thief Knife 100%.

Grinding hours and hours does not equal a challenge and I think that's what people are mixing up. If every LS could get the best gear easily then they could start making more and more challenging events. For people who love grinding SE could easily expand the merit system and/or give more special rewards for having multiple jobs like Maat's Cap.

[Kerberoz]

After the retardedly overpowered SCH patch we really need a question about how they plan on adjusting BLM now...

[spooky]

After the retardedly overpowered SCH patch we really need a question about how they plan on adjusting BLM now...

Yep, right now BLM is looking really thin. It has no unique JAs that can't be subbed.
The spells from merits arn't THAT much better than teir 4.
Aside from merit spells what unique spells does BLM get that no other job can cast (even when subbing BLM)? AM(lol), ga-spells(not much good for another other than manaburn dynamis), warp, warp2, escape... recall (fucking woot). Sure /SCH gives us some more fun stuff to play with but BLM on it's own just doesn't stand out on it's own any more. It has very very little to set it appart from other jobs.
Idealy I'd like to see.
- Some usefull JAs (more than 1, things for dmg increase and managing MP, turning warp2 into -ga)
- Aspir II
- Frost II etc
- JT for %MP returned for dmg done by MB.

[Amok]

It might not be unique in the same way but it's the best at landing unresisted nukes due to its A+ Elemental Magic skill. Nothing special, interesting or deep about that, but it's not like SCH's are putting BLM's out of a job afaik.

[Apelila]

I haven't read this thread at all, I just wanted to address this:

Einherjar/Dynamis/Limbus/Assault/Salvage/Nyzul/HNMS/Campaign
All:
The 3 day wait on Einherjar, Limbus, and Dynamis are a disaster for LS scheduling. Can you please consider changing the system to a 2 tag per weekly reset to help LS's schedule these events better?

I love this idea so much it hurts ; I can see them refusing to do it simply because everyone and their mom would plan around the moon cycles. Having said that, I would still suggest it so that the idea can be planted for future systems they design.

[Gergall]

I can see them refusing to do it simply because everyone and their mom would plan around the moon cycles.

Why would SE want to prevent people from planning around moon cycles?

[Apelila]

In "theory" thats when drop rates are tweaked. It would be hard to do with any consistency but I would bet good money on there being drama threads created because someone ninja'ed a zone because it was full moon.

[Gergall]

I think you're giving SE too much credit. I really doubt they care.

[Apelila]

Oh I don't doubt that. I don't think they would because if the theory is correct*, there's nothing to stop the people who CAN pull it off from doing so, thus maximizing their runs and eliminating the time sink aspect built into said events. Also the way it is now pretty much forces the schedules people have and eliminates (most of) the bitching that would be 'omg we can never do X becuase Y linkshell is always in there before we can get in".

*And while its certain that to an unknown point it is

[Gergall]

Question 1

Dragoon is one of the few melee class jobs that gains a powerful and unique advantage from having a mage class subjob. Although Dragoon has access to a lot of very nice MP boosting gear, they have scant few options when it comes to MP restoration (Refresh). This is especially true in Conquest areas where Sanction/Sigil Refresh is not an option. Are there any plans to support or encourage the use of mage class subjobs for Dragoon via any new abilities (i.e. Lancet), equipment (akin to Parade Gorget), or Signet adjustments?

Sub SCH and use Sublimation.

[ronin sparthos]

Making the synth materials drop occasionally from Salvage mobs or even just limit it to occasionally dropping from the NMs within Salvage wouldn't kill anybody. I'm not talking about the frequency of coins in Limbus.

I don't think Salvage is truly a 'casual' event. I agree it takes far less players which is great but it takes a lot from those players and it takes commitment to withstand the crappy drop rates on some items.

You can do Salvage once a week and get some drops. However the length of time it takes to train a group, get three parts to drop is considerable if this is all you do. It is not effective. You need to do 2-3 runs a week at least to make it worth it. Which means you need to do assault daily.

None of the individual steps to get involved in Salvage (doing Black Coffin, doing Assault) are difficult however they take time. Add in the time it takes to get the drops and then the time it takes someone to raise 8 million worth of ingots - it's not a casual commitment.

I don't think it should be, I think that Salvage gear is fantastic and the system is more accessible. However some small shells who have reached endgame (like mine) do not have instant access to millions of gil. Individuals can and do raise their own over time but I don't think it would hurt at all to make the occasional ingot or ore drop from the event itself.

Not everyone is in an HNMLS, not everyone has Kings gear, not everyone is a 100 smith. But they can still be good players in a 6-10 group who can do Salvage. Upgrade drops would make a lot of sense within the event itself, as long as they didn't drop like rain.

The ideas brought forth that were all equally good were:

A. Treasure Crate drops from Chariot Bosses with random upgrade items.
B. Random Monsters in the zone have a chance of dropping all the upgrade items equally.
C. Desynthable level 15/25 drops into desired upgrade items.

[Archimond]

delete

[Tulun]

What I would love to see for Salvage is them simply removing the minimum cap. Yes, you can get in by dragging and disconnecting nonsense, but why is this even here in the first place? If people wanna solo, duo, trio (etc) 35 nms, this would simply make it easier to get 35 drops in general.

[Hanyoko]

What I would love to see for Salvage is them simply removing the minimum cap. Yes, you can get in by dragging and disconnecting nonsense, but why is this even here in the first place? If people wanna solo, duo, trio (etc) 35 nms, this would simply make it easier to get 35 drops in general.

Then again they may not even be aware people are doing this and will take steps to ensure the disconnected also loose their permit.

But yea 6 as a min is rather lame esp. when target farming may only need 3 or 4 people

[Kkel]

Question 1

Dragoon is one of the few melee class jobs that gains a powerful and unique advantage from having a mage class subjob. Although Dragoon has access to a lot of very nice MP boosting gear, they have scant few options when it comes to MP restoration (Refresh). This is especially true in Conquest areas where Sanction/Sigil Refresh is not an option. Are there any plans to support or encourage the use of mage class subjobs for Dragoon via any new abilities (i.e. Lancet), equipment (akin to Parade Gorget), or Signet adjustments?

Sub SCH and use Sublimation.

That's hardly a solution. With SCH sub i'd have Aspir too, so why bother with Sublimation in the first place? Different mage subs bring different things to DRG/mage, no argument about that, but generally it's not worth losing Divine Seal, Reraise, and Erase.

[Akanei]

Because aspir on a job with 103-113 skill is absolute fail; not to mention the lack of monsters you'd actually have to use it against, unless you still solo crabs @ 75.

Personally would choose swapping to a kinkobo and getting a spirit taker off over shitty aspir, dark/pluto staff or not.

Edit: Would argue that reraise is rather pointless too since that's resolved by carrying an earring, or hairpin/gorget if you have the extra money to throw into such things. DS is nice for those clutch situations, or even saving time, but I hardly find a use for it, other than the latter.

If only /sch had erase. -_-

Edit 2: On the other hand, sublimation doesn't resolve the question. A piece with no detrimental effects for the sake of 1mp/tick is better than taking 2/tick on top of whatever else some mob would dot you with, or hit you with, effectively canceling out the mp you just gained, since the fast /sch spells you have access to cost 9+mp.

You can say "oh just do it when you're not fighting", but then you may as well just be resting or doing spirit taker, since both of those would give you mp faster than sublimation ever would.

[Kkel]

It's that SE is trying to change aspects of jobs so alternative subjobs become more appealing. They could stand to support some of the current alternatives that some jobs already use.

And seriously, 3/4th of the gear in this game is already frigging worthless and they keep adding more. It's not like adding a single new refresh piece in for alternative jobs that would actually use it is any kind of a big deal.