Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008) - (Nothing good)

[Fhqwghads]

Windower is evil and must be destroyed... oh wait SE copied the unofficial windower, stripped it of anything remotely useful and then launched with a huge disclaimer that they arent responisble for anything that happens while its running after people *gasp* bitched that full screen mode was stupid.

Not that I want to nit-pick, but Windower and windowed mode are worlds apart. SE didn't copy anything. The difference between the old FFXI and their version enabling windowed mode is as simple as this:

D3DPRESENT_PARAMETERS params;
// Blah blah blah other present struct members being assigned to...
params.Windowed = TRUE;

That's it. Ok, there's some other crap they had to do when the device was reset or lost, but it's trivial.

Windower, on the other hand, hooks the FFXI client and reads/sets memory locations, extending functionality that should have been there since day 1. Yes, it's against the TOS. However, playing a game whose interface was created for a console while using a PC is against my own private TOS, and not using Windower would violate my TOS. I mean, I hear some people like S&M, but for me it's not my cup of tea. 8)

[BerenTebogo]

Isn't it the way it is because of a glitch like..year? maybe, or so ago when the 2h weapon delay could be circumvented with a disengage / engage delay macro to allow you to swing faster than the conventional weapon delay?

Yeah, but they could instead just add the attack delay *after* you engage, rather than before, which screws you out of your next attack also as you spend that time engaging instead.

Ah I getcha

[LD]

Yea, but what's the problem if it's just keeping you from engaging for the rest of your normal delay? It's not like you could do anything that you couldn't already do while disengaged.

Maybe you should make sure there's no tree or rock between you and your target before you say it's a glitch.

[Jkun]

However, playing a game whose interface was created for a console while using a PC is against my own private TOS, and not using Windower would violate my TOS.

/clap. Well played.

[ronin sparthos]

Isn't it the way it is because of a glitch like..year? maybe, or so ago when the 2h weapon delay could be circumvented with a disengage / engage delay macro to allow you to swing faster than the conventional weapon delay?

Just allow you engage but not swing until the delay has passed, the whole 'you cant engage at all' sucks beyond belief - that'd be a "Battle System Adjustment"

Not that I want to nit-pick, but Windower and windowed mode are worlds apart. SE didn't copy anything. The difference between the old FFXI and their version enabling windowed mode is as simple as this:

I do not mean the technical scope of it, i mean the idea of a windowed mode which was taken from the people who bitched for it and the fact that SE had collected enough data to realize alot of people were using 3rd pty windower to begin with. Had 3rd pt windower never been designed and people didnt complain - we'd alll be playing in a full-screen mode still.

What's wrong with add effect Terror that needs to be fixed? I only know of Jettaturra and that seems to work fine, although a lot of mobs resist it. This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm curious if there's some bug I wasn't aware of.

Ever notice when someone cures/casts on you, that you cant move in certain instances? thats the 'added effect: terror' im talking about. It happens with a few spells and its highly annoying.

[Suiram]

Yea, but what's the problem if it's just keeping you from engaging for the rest of your normal delay? It's not like you could do anything that you couldn't already do while disengaged.

Maybe you should make sure there's no tree or rock between you and your target before you say it's a glitch.

Someone's never pulled 5F Arrapago Remnants. And the whole engaging thing is more "between two options to prevent engage/disengage exploit, why does it have to be the less convenient, more annoying one?"

Ever notice when someone cures you, that you cant move in certain instances? thats the 'added effect: terror' im talking about. It happens with a few spells and its highly annoying.

Oh that went completely over my head. Yeah it would be nice if they fixed that.

[Kenji]

So I should gimp myself because using windower is naughty and evil? Fuck off.

Perhaps you feel impotent without your blanky, but I know a bunch of people who can get by just fine without it. They may only be 95% as effective as you are, but they don't have problems in the game. You still have room for quite a few gear swaps in a macro. Do you really need to swap out 15 pieces of gear for every little action you take, in order not to feel impotent?

"OMG! I did a Rampage for 1500 damage instead of 1556! I'm sooooo gimp!"

[Indalecia]

So I should gimp myself because using windower is naughty and evil? Fuck off.

Perhaps you feel impotent without your blanky, but I know a bunch of people who can get by just fine without it. They may only be 95% as effective as you are, but they don't have problems in the game. You still have room for quite a few gear swaps in a macro. Do you really need to swap out 15 pieces of gear for every little action you take, in order not to feel impotent?

"OMG! I did a Rampage for 1500 damage instead of 1556! I'm sooooo gimp!"

Okay, are you being serious or just trolling? I can't tell at this point.

[shukuffxi]

I think the reason a lot of people are a bit put off by this update, is that it's like SE saying "Hey, we're fixing stuff! Look and see!", but the things they are "adjusting" on a scale of 1-10, are like... a 2 or a 3. Could SE not have spent their time fixing/adjusting things that their player base is far more interested in, instead of monster-name-color thing? There are many things that need fixing/adjusting, and these 3 things are at the bottom of the pile, so it's frustrating to folks.

That being said, the next week of updates should be the really kick ass stuff, I hope.

[BerenTebogo]

So I should gimp myself because using windower is naughty and evil? Fuck off.

Perhaps you feel impotent without your blanky, but I know a bunch of people who can get by just fine without it. They may only be 95% as effective as you are, but they don't have problems in the game. You still have room for quite a few gear swaps in a macro. Do you really need to swap out 15 pieces of gear for every little action you take, in order not to feel impotent?

"OMG! I did a Rampage for 1500 damage instead of 1556! I'm sooooo gimp!"

The entire game, every HNM or monster you camp, every action you do is working towards being marginally better at the shit you do, if you don't care about being better go to http://www.aim.com register a screenname, and quit FFXI, There are less expensive fucking chatrooms out there.

People spend years, or 20-30mil gil for 2% haste, are they impotent because swift belt isn't good enough for them?

Your logic is fucking retarded, as are you, you have yet to make a single point that hasn't come directly from a topic mirroring NERF UTSUSEMI, shut the hell up.

[LD]

Someone's never pulled 5F Arrapago Remnants. And the whole engaging thing is more "between two options to prevent engage/disengage exploit, why does it have to be the less convenient, more annoying one?"

Because obviously, it's more difficult to code. They would have to add a system that not only keeps track but doesn't keep you from attacking right away when your timer is clear. The only other system that waits like that is H/DOT. IIRC, it's connected to a universal timer or something. SE would probably attach delay to this just to save time, and that would force you to wait for your swing to come instead of attacking right off, which would be worse for 2Hs. Anyway, whether that's right or wrong, doing what you're suggesting would take much more work than needs to be done, so they'll never do it. The current system may force you to spam your engage button, but it doesn't add more time, so tough shit. :bagel:

[ronin sparthos]

So I should gimp myself because using windower is naughty and evil? Fuck off.

Perhaps you feel impotent without your blanky, but I know a bunch of people who can get by just fine without it. They may only be 95% as effective as you are, but they don't have problems in the game. You still have room for quite a few gear swaps in a macro. Do you really need to swap out 15 pieces of gear for every little action you take, in order not to feel impotent?

"OMG! I did a Rampage for 1500 damage instead of 1556! I'm sooooo gimp!"

Dude, your opening a can of worms with a statement that doesnt look at the more important aspects of macroing in/out gear.

For a DD, it may just mean less damage but lets use a more realistic scenario like getting a crucial stun resisted in salvage causing a wipe and waste of time, not landing debuffs causing extra deaths or a loss of claim, not swapping in gear for BLU spells causing more resists, not swapping out tanking gear meaning more damage and more mana drain on mages, resist setups using multiple slots that 6 just cannot fit.... which again save mana on mages in events.

Not swapping gear on mage jobs means your playing the job like an npc, on melee its more about personal 'effectiveness' and partly epeen but do you really want someone in your party using the excuse your presenting? that just opens the door for more excuses like 'i dont need oils/powders - we have a mage!' 'i dont feel like pulling, its not my job' 'i dont care about effciency, i just want levels fast'

[Kenji]

So I should gimp myself because using windower is naughty and evil? Fuck off.

Perhaps you feel impotent without your blanky, but I know a bunch of people who can get by just fine without it. They may only be 95% as effective as you are, but they don't have problems in the game. You still have room for quite a few gear swaps in a macro. Do you really need to swap out 15 pieces of gear for every little action you take, in order not to feel impotent?

"OMG! I did a Rampage for 1500 damage instead of 1556! I'm sooooo gimp!"

The entire game, every HNM or monster you camp, every action you do is working towards being marginally better at the shit you do, .

Bzzt, wrong. Are you playing Final Gear Sidegrade Fantasy XI?

People play for different reasons. A lot of people happen to like the story, the settings, leveling and enjoying different jobs. They don't play the min/max game you do. There are improvements they can make to their character, without resorting to a 3rd party program. And eventually, in every game, you reach a limit of power. You aren't getting lv76. There is a hard cap of 100%. This may surprise you, but a lot of people settle for 90 or 95%.

Sorry, your argument fails hardcore.

Not swapping gear on mage jobs means your playing the job like an npc, on melee its more about personal 'effectiveness' and partly epeen but do you really want someone in your party using the excuse your presenting? that just opens the door for more excuses like 'i dont need oils/powders - we have a mage!' 'i dont feel like pulling, its not my job' 'i dont care about effciency, i just want levels fast'

You're missing the argument. There is a big difference here, that you're not recognizing. Getting sneak oils/prism powders is a helluva big different from ninurta's sash.

I realize this is an end-game forum, and thus attracts a lot of the min-maxers. But min-maxers aren't the only gamers in town, and some of these updates just might not be directed at you. Learn to accept it. Or bitch and moan like a 13 year old girl who just smacked down.

[BerenTebogo]

So I should gimp myself because using windower is naughty and evil? Fuck off.

Perhaps you feel impotent without your blanky, but I know a bunch of people who can get by just fine without it. They may only be 95% as effective as you are, but they don't have problems in the game. You still have room for quite a few gear swaps in a macro. Do you really need to swap out 15 pieces of gear for every little action you take, in order not to feel impotent?

"OMG! I did a Rampage for 1500 damage instead of 1556! I'm sooooo gimp!"

The entire game, every HNM or monster you camp, every action you do is working towards being marginally better at the shit you do, .

Bzzt, wrong. Are you playing Final Gear Sidegrade Fantasy XI?

People play for different reasons. A lot of people happen to like the story, the settings, leveling and enjoying different jobs. They don't play the min/max game you do. There are improvements they can make to their character, without resorting to a 3rd party program. And eventually, in every game, you reach a limit of power. You aren't getting lv76. There is a hard cap of 100%. This may surprise you, but a lot of people settle for 90 or 95%.

Sorry, your argument fails hardcore.

Not swapping gear on mage jobs means your playing the job like an npc, on melee its more about personal 'effectiveness' and partly epeen but do you really want someone in your party using the excuse your presenting? that just opens the door for more excuses like 'i dont need oils/powders - we have a mage!' 'i dont feel like pulling, its not my job' 'i dont care about effciency, i just want levels fast'

You're missing the argument. There is a big difference here, that you're not recognizing. Getting sneak oils/prism powders is a helluva big different from ninurta's sash.

I realize this is an end-game forum, and thus attracts a lot of the min-maxers. But min-maxers aren't the only gamers in town, and some of these updates just might not be directed at you. Learn to accept it. Or bitch and moan like a 13 year old girl who just smacked down.

Then you're on the wrong forum, as this is an end-game forum, not allakazham or KI, leave.

Oh by the way, you are to understanding your role in FFXI gameplay as Krye is to pedophilia, I'll let you figure that one out for yourself, but pro-tip, I think you both should be locked up.

[Demosthenes11]

So I should gimp myself because using windower is naughty and evil? Fuck off.

Perhaps you feel impotent without your blanky, but I know a bunch of people who can get by just fine without it. They may only be 95% as effective as you are, but they don't have problems in the game. You still have room for quite a few gear swaps in a macro. Do you really need to swap out 15 pieces of gear for every little action you take, in order not to feel impotent?

"OMG! I did a Rampage for 1500 damage instead of 1556! I'm sooooo gimp!"

go away

[Kayos]

So I should gimp myself because using windower is naughty and evil? Fuck off.

Perhaps you feel impotent without your blanky, but I know a bunch of people who can get by just fine without it. They may only be 95% as effective as you are, but they don't have problems in the game. You still have room for quite a few gear swaps in a macro. Do you really need to swap out 15 pieces of gear for every little action you take, in order not to feel impotent?

"OMG! I did a Rampage for 1500 damage instead of 1556! I'm sooooo gimp!"

I really think this is the wrong board for you if this is your true feeling.

Edit: beaten by like 6 people ...

[Charla]

Personally, I would hold that being able to tab out and look up something about whatever you're trying to do is far more helpful than extra macro lines or a range display.

[Kenji]

The only point I was getting at originally, is to not bitch if an update doesn't specifically apply to you. If you want to whine, then go right ahead. But wasn't that one of the rules of the forum, something about not bitching about an update?

And no, Kayos, it's not my true feeling. I recognize there are other people in the game besides myself. Do I like making myself better? Yep. But I don't resort to forbidden programs to do it. And I don't whine when the company that owns the game, takes steps to limit the use of these forbidden programs.

That's the only difference between me and Sath here. I can improve myself in the game without 3rd party tools. That's the challenge: improve your game within the limits of the game.

Or are you advocating to change the rules of chess so you have one extra queen?

Personally, I would hold that being able to tab out and look up something about whatever you're trying to do is far more helpful than extra macro lines or a range display.

A better way of looking at it. It's nice that the company provided a way for us to do that.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Kenji, stop now before you dig your hole into molten lava

[CeridwenOfKujata]

Call me crazy, but I kinda like this. Now I get to hear epic musicz in Aht Urhgan on my Bard AND store my non-Windower macros! They are indeed minor improvements, but should've been done a looooooong time ago.