Indecision 2008: The Political Discussion Thread

[Demosthenes11]

I think I'm the only one that hates Obama's speeches =\
I don't think it's possible to speak with more empty rhetoric. And yes, socialism is a bad word in AMERICA, home of FREEDOM

[Maxxthepenguin]

I think I'm the only one that hates Obama's speeches =\
I don't think it's possible to speak with more empty rhetoric. And yes, socialism is a bad word in AMERICA, home of FREEDOM

Absolute bullshit. Freedom is useless for people who have no chance to use it (or are dead) and besides, Socialism isn't anti-freedom lol. It's its own sets of ideas, and treating it like a bad word means that rather than listening and thinking you dismiss it.

And how the hell can you hate Obama's speeches and like our prez when Obama says this and Bush comes out saying our economy is strong.

[Charla]

See, I never knew he had an interview on Fox, or that he ever claimed to have not been there when Wright said what he did in the videos. I thought that by flip-flopping you meant that he was decrying Wright's sermon in the speech while admitting that he hadn't decried said sermon until now, which could be considered splitting hairs depending on how significant a distinction you draw between disagreeing with something and actually speaking up about it.

I think that he's not justifying Wright's statements, but he is justifying the discontent and resentment which generate both the motivation for that sentiment and the audience's receptivity.

@demo: meh, show me a political candidate who can give a speech that isn't "empty" and that word might have some mreaning. Political power comes after the election, and almost any promise can be broken.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I found this link while looking at that one.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/gGrXCt

[Maxxthepenguin]

I found this link while looking at that one.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/gGrXCt

I'm pretty sure that that section is pretty much like facebook...he didn't make that shit. I mean you have some hate filled racists supporting McCain but that doesn't matter to me.

Plus, after their violent years, the black panthers did a lot of good.

And read the fucking essay before commenting on it. God damn it, do you have an aversion to reading or what?

[Charla]

I wonder who http://www.vnnforum.com is supporting this year...

[Olo401]

he clearly said that his pastor, himself, Sen Clinton, and every one of us have flaws that we show on a daily basis and that the solution is to look past these flaws we see in each other and in ourselves in order to work towards the goal of a better country for us all. This is not justifying the flawed words of Rev. Wright

Your right but this is.

"A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one’s family, contributed to the erosion of black families – a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods – parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement – all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.

This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. What’s remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them."

It seems to me saying that growing up in these times justifies the statements Wright made, which is fine.

It doesn't necessarily justify the remarks, but it certainly puts them into context when you look at Rev. Wright's upbringing. I think this is the point that Obama is trying to make here - Human beings, regardless of race or gender or nationality, are affected most by the events and experiences that define their early lives (I'll leave it at that, because this is a MUCH deeper topic that deserves its own thread).

And as to your assertion that he's a socialist, I counter that he's actually one of the most pure and sensible Collectivists I've ever seen.

Semantics, but I assume you arrived at this conclusion because he has implemented past socialist/collectivist polices. What were they?

Actually, no it just seems that his way of thinking about policies, as demonstrated by his ideas presented in speeches and debates, has some common themes to some of the more sensible ideas expressed by Ayn Rand's works and collectivism in general. (I'm a bit tuned into that sorta thing, being a social-libertarian and all..)

[Olo401]

I think I'm the only one that hates Obama's speeches =\
I don't think it's possible to speak with more empty rhetoric. And yes, socialism is a bad word in AMERICA, home of FREEDOM

Just curious then how you feel about the SOCIALIST policies of our government when it comes to investment banks.. IOKIYAC?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I found this link while looking at that one.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/gGrXCt

I'm pretty sure that that section is pretty much like facebook...he didn't make that shit. I mean you have some hate filled racists supporting McCain but that doesn't matter to me.

Plus, after their violent years, the black panthers did a lot of good.

And read the fucking essay before commenting on it. God damn it, do you have an aversion to reading or what?

He could take it down though. And no, I don't have hate filled racists supporting McCain because I don't support McCain.

I will read the fucking essay before commenting on it. But don't tell me to read the fucking essay before commenting on it before I fucking comment on it after fucking reading it.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I found this link while looking at that one.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/gGrXCt

I'm pretty sure that that section is pretty much like facebook...he didn't make that shit. I mean you have some hate filled racists supporting McCain but that doesn't matter to me.

Plus, after their violent years, the black panthers did a lot of good.

And read the fucking essay before commenting on it. God damn it, do you have an aversion to reading or what?

He could take it down though. And no, I don't have hate filled racists supporting McCain because I don't support McCain.

I will read the fucking essay before commenting on it. But don't tell me to read the fucking essay before commenting on it before I fucking comment on it after fucking reading it.

FUCK GOD DAMN SHIT

So anyways, do you not support anyone?

[Charla]

Wait, there was an essay?

[Maxxthepenguin]

I PMed him one about the economy and the cause of the collapse. I can PM it to whoever is interested, but I don't want to post it because it has some editing errors that people will overfocus on.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

So anyways, do you not support anyone?

Not really. McCain is just the lesser of two evils to me. I liked Thompson but could anyone a give shit less about their own campaign.

[Correction]

I think I'm the only one that hates Obama's speeches =\
I don't think it's possible to speak with more empty rhetoric. And yes, socialism is a bad word in AMERICA, home of FREEDOM

It is possible to speak with more empty rhetoric. Just look at the tripe our sitting president's 'speechwriters' are spewing out of your TV once in a while. I prefer optimism fueled by a need to change the status quo versus optimism fueled by a stubborn refusal of reality. 'The economy is not in a recession,' and 'stay the course' are much worse than 'yes we can' and 'America hungers for change.'

[Demosthenes11]

when did I become a bush supporter o.O Some of you just making shit up now

I hate almost all political speeches, but Obama the most right now because he has this "holier than thou" attitude when he does it that makes me angry. Something feels really, really fake about Obama - I just hope my gut is wrong if he gets elected.

And yes, I have everything socialist about our government

[Correction]

You're tarring Obama as being the worst offender of empty rhetoric possible. You are wrong. I'm just pointing that out. Don't get so butthurt.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Weren't you the one who said, without joking, "whats wrong with Bush aside from the Katrina disaster and some errors in the war in Iraq?"

[aurik]

Cemantics

lol

I hereby coin the phrase "SwampdonkeyPLDism", which means to blindly accept and repeat propaganda because it conveniently fits one's preconceived notions.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Cemantics

lol

I hereby coin the phrase "SwampdonkeyPLDism", which means to blindly accept and repeat propaganda because it conveniently fits one's preconceived notions.

Hey, now that's not giving Demosthenes11 ANY credit.

[Charla]

I prefer Swampyism. It's fewer syllables, and actually pronouncable.

Demo can have a different term; he makes up his own propaganda.