Some questions for pro Thieves...

[Xersus]

Hello BG! I have been a fan of your forums for several years. I have some questions on Thief that I would like some input from experienced players (or well informed players).

My Thief is finally level 65 and I was wondering the following:

1) Should I continue to use TADE for tank emnity? or should I switch to SATA Shark Bite (which of course requires a first voker)?

2) What are the modifiers for Shark Bite? I heard Str/Dex, Dex, and TP...

3) Should I stick with my Chicken Knife/Hornet Needle dagger combo? or is there something better to use.

4) Last of all... In the experience party I was in last night someone mentioned me using the Hide ability and then WS. I didn't understand what they were saying and didn't get much information from them on how that worked.

I hate bugging my LS all the time with newbish questions and decided to post here.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

[Shadowhusky]

1) Depends on party set up and how well the tank can hold hate. If someone is willing to first voke, then feel free to SATA+WS (Shark bite should be used if it's a high def mob. Other wise just use DE). If the tank can hold his own pretty well, then feel free to SA+WS and TA solo on the tank.

2) Modifiers: DEX:50% (Other wiki)

3) Replace the chicken knife with a Cermet Kukri (+1) and replace the HN with Garuda's Dagger. At 68 get a (Hoplites) Harpe main hand. Sirocco Kukri off hand at 69 (Hard to get, but great to have).

[Bardlet]

In regards to 4, enemies that detect and track by sight (yagudos, cockatrice, colibri, tonberries, goblins, and maybe some others I can't think of) will deaggro when you use hide. With these mobs, if you're in front of them and use SA+Hide+WS, it will work just as if you were SA+WS from behind. I tend to use this a lot when farming/soloing, and it works quite nicely.

[TacoTaru]

1) Should I continue to use TADE for tank emnity? or should I switch to SATA Shark Bite (which of course requires a first voker)?

If you're fighting normal exp mobs, I would stick to TADE for hate sticking, pop SA 30 seconds later, if the mob is still alive 30 seconds later TA, etc you get the idea. If you're fighting THF type mobs stick to shark bite. Up until the 70's I would just utilize splitting TA and SA unless you have someone who absolutely wants to first voke.

2) What are the modifiers for Shark Bite? I heard Str/Dex, Dex, and TP...

Dex; however, with shark bite you should stack dex, str and attack. I normally try to stack them in that order as well.

3) Should I stick with my Chicken Knife/Hornet Needle dagger combo? or is there something better to use.

At 65 I went with Cermet Kukri+1/Garudo. NQ Cermet would be fine too.

4) Last of all... In the experience party I was in last night someone mentioned me using the Hide ability and then WS. I didn't understand what they were saying and didn't get much information from them on how that worked.

As much as I avoid it, otherwiki has a great hide guide on monsters that it works on. I would suggest reading the page there on it. It really helped me step up my own play style and utilize to it's fullest potential. Actually considering dropping my trick attack merits and putting them in hide now.

[Lordwafik]

Hello BG! I have been a fan of your forums for several years. I have some questions on Thief that I would like some input from experienced players (or well informed players).

My Thief is finally level 65 and I was wondering the following:

1) Should I continue to use TADE for tank emnity? or should I switch to SATA Shark Bite (which of course requires a first voker)?

After Assasin, you should split them up. Sometimes I would SA+WS to help out the ninja when his shadows were down or the PLD if he was taking a beating, and help to tank if I could pull enough hate. If I didnt pull enough hate, I'd have pulled enough for it to turn after they take a beating.

2) What are the modifiers for Shark Bite? I heard Str/Dex, Dex, and TP...

Dex and TP are the modifiers.

3) Should I stick with my Chicken Knife/Hornet Needle dagger combo? or is there something better to use.

I didnt like hornet after a while, I preferred damage knives, but don't go over the top and get high delay knives either, /vomit @ Dual harpe weilders.

4) Last of all... In the experience party I was in last night someone mentioned me using the Hide ability and then WS. I didn't understand what they were saying and didn't get much information from them on how that worked.

You can use SA + Hide (in that order) and then you're able to WS the monster from any direction with the effect of sneak attack, simply using hide before you WS does nothing but shed enmity in some scenarios. However not all monsters allow you to hide from them in battle, so for some of them you'll have to SA+Hide before the monster reaches your camp (if you're not pulling). [/quote]

[Nyuneko]

3) At level 65, I switched to Corsair Kukri + Garuda's Dagger, I stopped using Hornet Needle at around 55's due to the low damage. Hoplite's Harpe + Garuda at 68, and I switched H.Harpe away for Magnet Knife at 70(I have Sirocco Kukri at 69, so I was Magnet + Sirocco at 70...). After that, it depends on your gil, some of the better daggers can get quite expensive.

4) Any monster that you can lose hate by using Hide, you can do the Hide+SA on it. As for what monster it works on,
http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/
Use this site to look up. General idea is:
-Sight aggro monster type that doesn't track by scent.
-For sight aggro monster that track by scent, this trick will still work if you are a) under water weather(I was told any weather works too), or; b) standing in water. This is because water weather or standing in water will grants you an effect similar to Deodorize. Deodorize/Deodorizer will work too, but you need to disengage(providing you don't have hate), put deodorize on, SA, hide, engage and WS or whatever.
-Does not work on True sight, True sound or sound aggro, unless you do it before you have hate(gathered from reading what Lordwafik said, I have never tried myself).
-Fun fact: this trick works on Campaign Yagudo.

[Xersus]

Thanks for the great response guys n gals!

Sadly I found out tonight, after fighting Garuda with a few friends, that you cannot obtain another dagger if you had one previously and dropped it. (_ _)

Oh well... Onto camping NM for S. Kukri!

Have a great night!

[BroodIfrit]

[quote="Xersus"]Sadly I found out tonight, after fighting Garuda with a few friends, that you cannot obtain another dagger if you had one previously and dropped it. (_ _)[quote]

Yeah, I found out the saem way with Siva's Calws for my PUP, now I'm stuck using shitty inaccurate weapons until I can use Hades Sainti. ._.

If you've got the gil, another good way to go (at least it was for me) is a damaging weapon main and a Merc Kris offhand. On Colibri parties I was usually able to TA+WS, then 20 seconds later SA+WS, repeat. Offhand damage won't do a lot, but you'll tear through them fast if you're spamming weapon skills.

[Lordwafik]

-Fun fact: this trick works on Campaign Yagudo.

Hide works on every single campaign mob

[Meepein]

On the dagger question, I think I did Cermet Kukiri +1/Hornetneedle til I got a H. Harpe at 68. After that, I got obsessed with a Martial Knife (why, I still have not quite figured out, maybe it was because Blau's were insanely expensive at that time) until I finally got my own Blau.

However, if I were leveling now, I would do Cermet +1 mainhand til either a Harpe-class weapon (I think plain old Harpe's are relatively inexpensive these days) or do a Magnet Knife or 2.

As for TA, SA, and DE, since 60 I would always stack DE with whatever was up (though, I would try to always TA DE since I liked to not suck all the MP if I got hate.) I did try SB in xp parties, and never really liked it. DE always hit bigger numbers for me, and my build. Then again, when I was in the 60's, my build was complete ass. Ahhh, the good old days....

[Nyuneko]

-Fun fact: this trick works on Campaign Yagudo.

Hide works on every single campaign mob

Really? =O I thought sound aggro or scent track are still immune to Hide... Now I can enjoy non-Yagudo campaign a bit more; hiding and lose hate to the chicken tanks who hide behind my THF~

And I never even knew that thing about avatar weapons, guess I am screwed on Garuda's dagger now, lucky DNC can't use it.

[Karbuncle]

-Fun fact: this trick works on Campaign Yagudo.

Hide works on every single campaign mob

Heres another fun fact, if you have hate they'll still beat your ass after using it ;~:

Thats right. Running from orcs, hit Hide. said "~~~ Hides!" and they continue to run after me beating me into the ground ;(
So it works as long as your not trying to loose aggro

Either that or orcs in Eldieme are just particularly Glitchy

[nsx]

Another fun hide fact.

If you have a mob that aggros by sight but tracks by scent, such as a tiger, you can still use the hide thing to sata ws on tank if a mage Deodorizes you first.

[Nyuneko]

-Fun fact: this trick works on Campaign Yagudo.

Hide works on every single campaign mob

Heres another fun fact, if you have hate they'll still beat your ass after using it ;~:

Thats right. Running from orcs, hit Hide. said "~~~ Hides!" and they continue to run after me beating me into the ground ;(
So it works as long as your not trying to loose aggro

Either that or orcs in Eldieme are just particularly Glitchy

Weird though, last time I hide on a leeching SAM(<3 leeches), the Yagudo turned to him for the whole time I was Hidden, though, after my SA WS, the Yagudo turned back to me as if my hate was never reset(I was already tankin the thing to 50% before the leech joined).

I wonder what would happen if I hadn't SA WS.

[Loren]

Ya, Hide has nothing to do with sight/sound detection methods (see: Ahriman, Puks, undead). The only things that stop it are scent tracking, low HP on undead, enemy pets, and alliance-wide hate in battlefields. And even those can be circumvented by Hiding before you engage.

[IncredibleGulk]

if you haven't checked the page with monsters that Hide works on, a few that it does work on:

-Golems(Statues)
-Dolls (Faust)
-Magic Pots
-Bombs
-Greater Birds (Peryton, Diatryma)
-Cocks (Pelican)
-Kindred Beastmen
-Wyverns (Voivre, Guivre, etc.)
-Gigas

[mym]

-For sight aggro monster that track by scent, this trick will still work if you are a) under water weather(I was told any weather works too), or; b) standing in water. This is because water weather or standing in water will grants you an effect similar to Deodorize. Deodorize/Deodorizer will work too, but you need to disengage(providing you don't have hate), put deodorize on, SA, hide, engage and WS or whatever.

Thats interesting.. would that mean that Scholar's Rainstorm spell applied to a thief would allow them to Hide + SA against these types of mobs?

[Khajit]

if you haven't checked the page with monsters that Hide works on, a few that it does work on:

-Golems(Statues)
-Dolls (Faust)
-Magic Pots
-Bombs
-Greater Birds (Peryton, Diatryma)
-Cocks (Pelican)
-Kindred Beastmen
-Wyverns (Voivre, Guivre, etc.)
-Gigas

hide doesnt work on faust.
I could have sworn it used to but one day I went to mug it and hide afterwards only hide didn't work very well all of a sudden.

[Starr]

1) I'd stick to SADE if your accuracy is ok and SASB if not, do TA seperately.

2) 50% DEX, STR 16-25% from fSTR (kind of) but also giving attack.

3) Cermet Kukri+1/Corsair's would be best IMO, although being so close to 68 I wouldn't worry terribly what you use til then, Harpe/xxx past there.

4)You can use TA > Hide > SA > WS or just SA > Hide > WS on certain mobs and it will do SATA/SA WS.

[Quixotic]

Never hide before SA, it will get canceled. On the otherhand, TA will not cancel hide.