Adjustments and Additions to Fellows (02/26/2008)

[Tekki]

I've never been bothered by negative feedback on update notes, and actually think its a normal and healthy part of community. What I am bothered with is the perpetual spamming of worthless negative posts when the point is already clear.... the update notes for that day sucked. Even after 15 posts of negative one liners to boost post counts, we usually do find those negative threads going into real discussions. Even at that, we still see someone pop in during the discussion and spam "OMG /WRSTZ tHIS upDATE SUCK" Its those types of posts that I would eliminate.

If you don't like the update, say why and add some content to thread worth reading. Negative posting that brings attention to the update in a postive way is better then negative posting that simply shows you are a whining bitch.


EDIT:

Also, notice that they pushed back the update by a week. Why are people acting like vague/sparse update notes are something new? This whole thing is an exercise in the quote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

For fucks sake, I can only echo this louder. (Sept u can sit on my shoulders and yell this if you want ^.-)

Past what I posted, I really think people fail to remember.... For the past , I dunno, 20+ updates, SE has taken this approach to every update.

Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame ooo curious, Lame, Lame, OMGFCKNGGODBBQQOVER9000, Update in... (data miners), ZOMG Taj is in already!, (all is posting our data mining results!)
Then despite all the update excitement... Your still logged at DA

[Xanthe]

I agree with Septimus. There is no reason for people to be going wtfapeshit when we know that these notes are teasers meant to entice us and spark discussion about the full update (and indeed they have). Instead of showing us their cards ahead of time as has happened in the past SE is putting on one heck of a poker face, giving us the trivialities. Just because they don't mention something now it doesn't mean that it won't be in the update. I really don't see the point of complaining about what hasn't been mentioned until the full list is released on patch day.

[layoneil]

Why are people acting like vague/sparse update notes are something new? This whole thing is an exercise in the quote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

because this applies to SE as well? they don't know by now that the playerbase likes frequent update notes? they don't know by now that the playerbase are not complete idiots and like the notes to have actual information?

it's not simply the quantity of update notes, it's the quality of update notes. this is complete fail:
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff ... etail.html

you can have an intern put something like that together in an hour.

[Kenji]

So far we have missions, quests, items, AF and Genkai 5 for new jobs, and some tweaks for Campaign. There should be new BLU spells, maybe some new merits, perhaps some BCNM-type fights, and a few surprises. What else do people expect to happen in this update?

It seems that I have taken it upon myself to single-handedly dispel the irrational exuberance for this update's contents...

One could argue that some of this stuff should've been with the expansion to begin with. The general lack of missions was pretty lame. Quests were borderline okay, I guess. Iterms hasn't shown a lot, though there are a few gems. Genkai fights should've been there. Some would argue AF needs to wait to see how people will play the jobs, but really, it's not hard to look at something like SCH and think, "INT, Elemental, MP, hMP, then some flavor mods regarding weather/helices..." DNC isn't far off with things like "ACC, Haste, Store TP, and flavor Dance mods." Other stuff like BLU spells (We already know what they are) and COR rolls (Just spit out the Conserve MP and Regain rolls already) didn't really need this long of a wait. Campaign tweaks can be overlooked since it was totally new and should be expected. Doubt we'll get BCNMs yet since ENMs and ISNMs took a while.

Overall, it really is a bunch of minor things that would've more been fluff in old-time patch notes. Were the game updated monthly, I don't think people would be fussing as much. As Ryko put it, though, this'll be nearly 6 months since anything of real meat and depth. None of what I listed above will really keep people going for another 3 months. We'll ooo and aaa at some dat mining if something juicy pops up, but it'll soon be forgotten and we'll be back to standing around in Aery or wondering what SE's smoking with AV stuff.

Expansions are always a good time to shake things up and get players interested again with new things and retooling old mechanics. People were feeling the strain near the end of CoP. ToAU didn't so much fix problems as it did lure us away from the ones we'd known. WotG hits and the ennui hasn't really been phased. I wonder what I throw my $18 a month into. Could I quit? Sure. Of course, that won't change anything. Aside from more frequent updates, more routine correspondence with the devs would do wonders for player morale. We don't know what the hell's in their head. Times like this make us think they don't know what the hell's in ours.

For most every MMO, paying for the new expansion just means you're paying for access to the new stuff. This hasn't changed with WotG. The only thing that's different, is they pushed it out earlier to make the Christmas holiday, thus we didn't have as much available immediately in the xpac as some would have liked. It was a business decision, from a business. I get the feeling we'll get the rest of the initial xpac + some other stuff in the patch.

And as has been mentioned before, pleasing the JP playerbase comes first in SE's mind. It's like RO and all those other crazy Korean MMO's, which are geared toward what the Korean's like. It's just the way it is. You can complain that the company isn't treating you like the center of the universe, and you'd be right. But what are you going to do about it? Quit? Not for the addicts among us, who'd continue to play even if the game physically reached out and cut them every time they played (and from some responses in this forum, I'd almost think that was the case).

I do wish there were more fellowship changes, but I like these. They are sort of a "that's nice" thing, but it at least it shows they still have a guy or two who's twiddling with the fellowship system. Hopefully means we can expect more, albeit in a slow fashion.

[BerenTebogo]

i actually like fellow NPCs so whatever lol

Just hope they don't gay it up and don't raise the level cap / areas we can use them, who the hell solos in zilart ( I do, it's besides the point)

You know when I originally read about this update I expected you to be 1st in like with the "omgwtfbbq" posts but you actually shocked me.

I level my NPC off and on so it's not like I'm fully committed to it but it's something to pass the time while I'm farming.

Sath's always full of surprises!

I'm basically a solo / duo / low-man content addict, so anything that allows me to play with my friends or my wife on our time effectively makes me happy, part of the reason I'm about a little over 50% on Kikoku instead of Aegis like everyone would like me to do.

[layoneil]

I do wish there were more fellowship changes, but I like these. They are sort of a "that's nice" thing, but it at least it shows they still have a guy or two who's twiddling with the fellowship system. Hopefully means we can expect more, albeit in a slow fashion.

but isn't the biggest problem with the fellowship system the inability to use them in 50% or more of the game? until they figure that out what does it matter how they tweak it to help people farm easier.

[LD]

Septimus, did you look at those updates? They weren't orgasmic, but they added a lot. I think our high expectations are justified, though I admit most of our fears aren't. Most people aren't complaining about what's to come though, theyre complaing about what little they've seen so far.

Yes, I did read through them. I know that weather effects being added to CoP zones was mind-blowing, but I think that people are expecting too much from the update notes.

Meaning "No, I did not look at them."

Those are the updates that added ODS/Assassin/adjusted AH taxes & Added G2 merits/made important job adjustments (lowered R1/RR1 exp penalty/fixed BLU macc/etc.), respectively.

I think you're minimalizing what this did for many players and strategies just to prove a point.


Also, those notes leading up the the TOA update were actually GOOD. It had stuff we were excited about.

[Kayos]

these notes are teasers meant to entice us and spark discussion about the full update (and indeed they have).

They are neither enticing nor are they sparking any sort of positive discussion.

[Acturus]

Also, notice that they pushed back the update by a week. Why are people acting like vague/sparse update notes are something new? This whole thing is an exercise in the quote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

For fucks sake, I can only echo this louder. (Sept u can sit on my shoulders and yell this if you want ^.-)

Past what I posted, I really think people fail to remember.... For the past , I dunno, 20+ updates, SE has taken this approach to every update.

Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame ooo curious, Lame, Lame, OMGFCKNGGODBBQQOVER9000, Update in... (data miners), ZOMG Taj is in already!, (all is posting our data mining results!)
Then despite all the update excitement... Your still logged at DA

Well put.

etc. etc.

[neochaos]

I presume the reason so many people are going apeshit over the weak ass update notices this go around as opposed to any of the previous times (even tho they are mirrored), is that there was a lot more content to go through with ToAU and such, as opposed to ToAU. For a lot of us WotG was supposed to be a savior of the droll boredom that has become FFXI. Instead its some redone zones with stronger mobs, with an instanced besieged happening every so often, so you get weak ass exp and allied notes to buy nothing with, and eventually get a holyknight emblem, for no real reason yet.

For the update relevant to this topic, the adventuring fellows, I had always hoped for more interactivity for the NPC. Much in the way of a puppetmaster. With puppets you can customize them, view their stats/skills, all that good shit. With the fellow npcs, you can give them a generic weapon, they get armor that I presume is just for aesthetic purposes only, and a lot of area's they would be nice in, they aren't allowed in (ToAU areas), of course that's a measure to prevent bhaflau from becoming the next kuftal tunnel..

I like what they did with the NPCs, just very few people use them now, and the changes are only gonna help (barely) with the current fellow users, as opposed to making them worth using to the rest of the community. If they implemented a way to be more interactive with your NPC I'd say that's something they finally did right.

If they implemented a way to be more interactive with your NPC I'd say that's something they finally did right

I'd say that's something they finally did right

That said, I can just expect that not to ever happen so long as I play this game D:

Edit:

these notes are teasers meant to entice *edit*the JP community*edit* and spark discussion about the full update (and indeed they have).

That or SE is clueing us in on the key factors of enmity in FFXI. Make players wait forever for shitty update notes, generate enmity!!

TAKE NOTE PLDS AND NINS!

[Aerin]

these notes are teasers meant to entice us and spark discussion about the full update (and indeed they have).

They are neither enticing nor are they sparking any sort of positive discussion.

Going to have to agree here too, none of the update notes have been all that exciting so far. Actually I think this fellowship update is the first one I've seen so many people happy about.

I also agree with LD, I thought most of those update notes listed for ToAU's first update were pretty major updates and good.

The fellowship update is equivalent to this:

Chocobo Digging and Gardening (07/03/2006)

Click here to read another "Life in Vana'diel" article about chocobo raising.
New information on changes and additions to chocobo digging and gardening can also be found here!

Which iirc at the time was also something that also needed a long overdue overhaul (well an update of some sort anyway).

[Byrd]

For the update relevant to this topic, the adventuring fellows, I had always hoped for more interactivity for the NPC. Much in the way of a puppetmaster. With puppets you can customize them, view their stats/skills, all that good shit. With the fellow npcs, you can give them a generic weapon, they get armor that I presume is just for aesthetic purposes only, and a lot of area's they would be nice in, they aren't allowed in (ToAU areas), of course that's a measure to prevent bhaflau from becoming the next kuftal tunnel..

I like Fellows and this update is nice for them, but I don't really see the listed changes causing me to take my Signal or Tactics Pearl out of storage. I don't see that happening unless they add new quests, BC's or raise the level cap for the NPC. It's not that I couldn't find a use for my Fellow if I tried, but it's unusual for me to actually go out and solo random mobs for gil; so the Fellow is just not on my radar. It's nice to see they are going back and revisiting old content, which gives me hope that more changes or content will follow soon. Right now, it's basically a farming tool. Which isn't bad, but it seems weird to me to have such systemic changes so far after the last Fellow update w/o providing some additional content for it.

In a perfect world, I would like to see some Fellowship specific BCNM-type functions. Hell, it could just drop Rare/Ex stuff that would improve your Fellow and I would still be interested, or increase your range to call your Fellow. It would be nice to be able to call the Fellow in the past, as well; they could prove valuable for under-manned Campaign battles. Please keep them out of ToAU areas, though; leave that for the XP camps.

[Toth]

Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame ooo curious, Lame, Lame, OMGFCKNGGODBBQQOVER9000, Update in... (data miners), ZOMG Taj is in already!, (all is posting our data mining results!)
Then despite all the update excitement... Your still logged at DA

Not if you've given up the dreary life of king camping

[Kenai]

I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with this update. It has been AGES since they messed with Fellows.

That being said, I REALLY hope that this will eventually translate to pets recieving AoE buffs and such also. That would solve soooooo many pet job problems right there, and in one fell swoop.

[Spider-Dan]

Finally being able to treat your NPC like a PT member is amazingly great. That is, assuming that you actually use an NPC, which I would think should be obvious.

It boggles the mind that people can jump up and yell, "this update is garbage, I don't even use NPCs." Does this mean that if they make all jug pets uncapped, untimed, zoneable, and buffable, everyone who is not a BST should start shouting "EPIC FAIL WTF"?

Every melee that uses an NPC got a MAJOR boost from this change. /DNC can now refresh their healer NPC with Aspir Samba (read: no more resting to maintain NPC casting Haste), or keep attacker NPC cured up with Drain Samba, or cure them with Waltzes. SAM can Shikikoyo + SC, THF can TA+WS -> Accomplice, COR goes without saying.

If (and I do stress if) NPCs are also summonable in more areas, this will be a legendary update for NPC users. If you don't use NPCs, this isn't going to affect you, so what the hell do you expect?

[spooky]

Finally being able to treat your NPC like a PT member is amazingly great.

Actually the update quite clearly states:

Magic and other abilities you use on party members will now also benefit the fellow you summoned.

The way I read that is, if you have a buff on you, your NPC will have the same buff; it'll be funny when that only happens when you summon it too lol.

[Kenji]

I do wish there were more fellowship changes, but I like these. They are sort of a "that's nice" thing, but it at least it shows they still have a guy or two who's twiddling with the fellowship system. Hopefully means we can expect more, albeit in a slow fashion.

but isn't the biggest problem with the fellowship system the inability to use them in 50% or more of the game? until they figure that out what does it matter how they tweak it to help people farm easier.

We go round and round about what the biggest issues with the fellowship system are, and we'd both be wrong. I'd say a more productive use of time would be to understand the JP playerbase mindset, and then perhaps persuade them of what changes would be good. But essentially you're saying "Why tweak it at all if it doesn't contain the tweaks *I* want?"

[quote:16rbra1f]
Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame ooo curious, Lame, Lame, OMGFCKNGGODBBQQOVER9000, Update in... (data miners), ZOMG Taj is in already!, (all is posting our data mining results!)
Then despite all the update excitement... Your still logged at DA

Not if you've given up the dreary life of king camping [/quote:16rbra1f]

People still camp kings? lol.

[ronin sparthos]

FIXING OLD CONTENT, that people actually asked for?????

:rocl: :rocl: :rocl: :rocl: :rocl: :rocl: :rocl: :rocl: :rocl: :rocl:

Finally something worth bringing up to par, so long as you can use them in WoTG and ToAU areas this will be a major chunk of win. Level cap @70 prz.

This could be enough to cancel out the emo AV video....

[Kayos]

I'd say a more productive use of time would be to understand the JP playerbase mindset, and then perhaps persuade them of what changes would be good.

this morning i asked a friend in one of ragnarok's jp endgame shells about what how the japanese player base is responding to this information. he replied with "everyone says it SUCKS!"
so it's not just BG!

k

[Intense]

It boggles the mind that people can jump up and yell, "this update is garbage, I don't even use NPCs." Does this mean that if they make all jug pets uncapped, untimed, zoneable, and buffable, everyone who is not a BST should start shouting "EPIC FAIL WTF"?

No, because the difference is that BST is a job class and deserves that attention.