Stupid things you've done recently

[Heian]

Darwinism.

AHAHAHAHA

I love it when people grab some scientific ideas and warp them into some pointless philosphy.

I'm not running around preaching it like it is a religion, its more of a personal observation. Take it how you will, I just simply believe that the most fit to survive and prosper will.

[Howard Roark]

i'm not swearing by all that darwinism entails, i think anyone would be an misguided fool to copypasta someone else's ideas as their own personal philosophy

if you would prefer i say that everyone can work their way out of a crappy situation then fine, am i a fool for calling it darwinism?, to a small degree but only insofaras i didn't preface every goddamn word i said with 'let's not play semantics'

i think you're smarter than that, kuya (notsomuch magus) than to think i'm a posterboy for darwinism, or hell, even ALL of rand's ideas


the stupid thing is, i'm pretty sure that magus and others like him all laugh at darwinism because someone argued it prettily that because of recent social factors bla bla bla it is no longer a working model (perhaps never was) but i'm sure whatever the current popular (4th edition text written by the prof that teaches the course) belief is just another way of expressing the fact that the BEST SUITED to survive, will survive, if not the strongest


and because i'm curious, humor me slightly and run by me darwinism is so LOL (sorry to the OP as this is now waaaay off course)

[Kuya]

Not accusing anyone, directly at least. I just hate that ideology, not even Darwin himself agreed with it. That foolish idea comits the fallacy where it assumes that "Survival of the fittest" means that there are traits that are simply superior to others, when in reality anyone who has a good understanding of evolution knows full well that traits can only be considered an advantage according to the environement in which they exist. It has less to do with the innate traits themselves and everything to do with the environement.

This was just created by some white european men in the 1800s with clear racist intents.

[Izzy]

Darwinism was a pretty shitty example, although I do agree with your point of view haha.

Woozie pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[Royal]

I live in a community of about 1000 people, mostly over the age of 30 I guess. There is never any vandalism in this town since there aren't a lot of kids, but about 2 weeks ago I told my mom to skidaddle so my friend could spend the night, and she can never go to sleep when we stay up late. Now, my friend decides he wants to spray paint the hell out of the community. I call up my friend since he has the password to the shed where all the soccer balls are and all the paint to make the lines of the field. We go in and take most of the paint with another friend and go crazy. One of them really wants to go spray paint some stop signs, but I stop him since its retarded. So while I watch for cars, they work on something i can't really see. About 15 minutes later and about 3 car hidings, I look over and I just see a really really veiny penis. I was kinda pissed since it was right before my culdesac(sp) and kinda obvious to my mom it would be me. I shrug it off since I'm really high. We go to the basketball court, they decide they want to do another penis for some reason. They make it the size of the whole basketball court. We realize we are done for the night and go back to my house, where we realize we are covered in white spray paint. The rest of the night is spent cleaning and getting rid of evidence. Pretty entertaining. About a week later I go to the basketball court and the maintanence made it look like a T lol, made the balls square and all that, it was pretty hilarious. I hate vandelizing shit so I'm probably not ever going to do that again.

[Maguspk]

Chances to succeed aren't as simple as they were when society was less complex. You can't ignore societal complexities in an attempt to cater an argument of "survival of the fittest". Again, a man of color born into less than optimal conditions despite having the potential to achieve, probably won't because society conditions him and doesn't provide equal privileges a "white" man(those society decides are white) born into the same conditions might have had.

Long Post(sry)

It's great that your black and made it out of a bad situation but like I said, individual cases aren't representing the majority. Statistics speak louder than someone's story. If everybody has the same chance of "getting out" then you're basically just calling an entire race of people incapable, which is obviously wrong because race isn't a factor when it comes to these things.

I also want to say, you did make it out of an extremely difficult situation but the obstacles you had to overcome were much larger and I'm sure you've encountered situations in your life where your color alone created an obstacle that was there. On this I can relate to you because I know being colored you grow up with a view of the world unlike those who aren't colored. We notice things that go on in a much broader sense because we have to in order to take full advantage of the world we live in.

Oh yeah and I'm black too, I'm sorry if you hate me using the fact that being colored is definitely discriminated against on the whole in our society, although it's obviously improved over the decades. But that's besides the point, the argument isn't over race; the point to be made is something you're born into does affect your life and it's not always as easy as simply "doing something about it." For example, it was very difficult for you to overcome your situation but you did it. You did something about it but it wasn't as simple as what the guy who grew up in a $75,000 household had to go through. His obstacles were a bit smaller. Also, given your situation I'm sure a large percentage of people wouldn't be able to get out of it, your success is a rare case and I'm sure you're well aware of that :D

I don't see how someone can honestly think society on the whole is completely fair. If you don't then you're agreeing with me.

You want everything in the world to be fair, well guess what. Its not

Thank you, this has been the entire point of my posts and guess what, you're agreeing with me whether you want to realize it or not. You seem to be taking away from my posts that I'm trying to say everything needs to be equal right now. That's a bit radical and frankly ignorant because that won't happen overnight. But I did say that ignoring inequalities and simply saying "everybody can do everything" is just stupid and perpetuates a negative situation by ignoring it completely.

if you would prefer i say that everyone can work their way out of a crappy situation then fine

This couldn't be more wrong, I don't see how you don't understand this. Can a child born, put into an orphanage and given a less than optimal education magically achieve everything a child of a higher class with a better education can? Obviously not, and if you're telling yourself yes then you're simply not thinking. There are too many factors in one's success to try and condense it all down to "anybody can do anything if they try".

are you honestly trying to counter with YOU'RE STUPID? wow.. i'd like to see you cry yourself out of the woods should you ever find yourself stranded for some reason; and that bear that is attacking you has no idea that you don't think it's fair that he is stronger than you, and despite the fact you think you deserve a gun to defend yourself you don't have one, deal with it

thank you woozie and heian

Also, LOL at this post. For one, I called your argument stupid not you, which was valid because it honestly was off base and made zero sense lol. Two, you're thanking other people for disagreeing with me yet not agreeing with you, as if somebody disagreeing with me is someone coming to your rescue, lolz. Three, what is this about a bear and crying my way out of the woods? Is this an insult or something? Relevance where?

And let me remind you since you seem to be taking this to heart so damn quickly, I am simply playing devil's advocate here and providing a nice counter argument. If you could simply entertain the notion of a nice debate and stop replying with replies like the above, it'd go much more smoothly.

[Woozie]

It's great that your black and made it out of a bad situation but like I said, individual cases aren't representing the majority. Statistics speak louder than someone's story. If everybody has the same chance of "getting out" then you're basically just calling an entire race of people incapable, which is obviously wrong because race isn't a factor when it comes to these things.

Oh yeah and I'm black too, I'm sorry if you hate me using the fact that being colored is definitely discriminated against on the whole in our society, although it's obviously improved over the decades. But that's besides the point, the argument isn't over race; the point to be made is something you're born into does affect your life and it's not always as easy as simply "doing something about it."

I don't see how someone can honestly think society on the whole is completely fair. If you don't then you're agreeing with me.

I'm not saying society is 100% fair, but I am saying that people need to stop using the situation they were born in as an excuse for not making it up the social ladder, because while not everyone has an equal chance of making it, nearly everyone does get a chance, and it's not even all that hard even if you're born in unfortunate circumstances.

You pointed out that it can be harder for people born in both disadvantaged situations and being colored. I'm just pointing out that I meet both those criteria, as well as many in my environment, and the only factor that affects whether or not one makes it out of the bad situation is whether or not the person gets off their ass and tried to make it somewhere in life, hence why both "being born in disadvantages circumstances" or "being colored" aren't good excuses. It isn't that much harder than simply "doing something about it" unless your own conscious choices put you too deeply into the situation (i.e. criminal record and drug addiction), but then your disadvantage is due to your own personal choices and not due to the situation you were born in.

[Woozie]

Oh, and you say it's not about race, and while I do realize it's not solely about race, you did go out of your way to point out that black people are naturally disadvantaged, which is why I felt it was necessary to make it a point that my own experiences are also those of a black person.

[Maguspk]

It's great that your black and made it out of a bad situation but like I said, individual cases aren't representing the majority. Statistics speak louder than someone's story. If everybody has the same chance of "getting out" then you're basically just calling an entire race of people incapable, which is obviously wrong because race isn't a factor when it comes to these things.

Oh yeah and I'm black too, I'm sorry if you hate me using the fact that being colored is definitely discriminated against on the whole in our society, although it's obviously improved over the decades. But that's besides the point, the argument isn't over race; the point to be made is something you're born into does affect your life and it's not always as easy as simply "doing something about it."

I don't see how someone can honestly think society on the whole is completely fair. If you don't then you're agreeing with me.

I'm not saying society is 100% fair, but I am saying that people need to stop using the situation they were born in as an excuse for not making it up the social ladder, because while not everyone has an equal chance of making it, nearly everyone does get a chance, and it's not even all that hard even if you're born in unfortunate circumstances.

You pointed out that it can be harder for people born in both disadvantaged situations and being colored. I'm just pointing out that I meet both those criteria, as well as many in my environment, and the only factor that affects whether or not one makes it out of the bad situation is whether or not the person gets off their ass and tried to make it somewhere in life, hence why both "being born in disadvantages circumstances" or "being colored" aren't good excuses. It isn't that much harder than simply "doing something about it" unless your own conscious choices put you too deeply into the situation (i.e. criminal record and drug addiction), but then your disadvantage is due to your own personal choices and not due to the situation you were born in.

Yes, you agree society isn't 100% fair, that's all that needs to be acknowledged. It's not a simple matter of "just going out and getting a job" or "j ust goingout and getting an education." That person may have other obstacles they need to get over before they can even dream of doing the goal they are setting out for, and in that we agree. I do not wish to say "some people just have no chance," but I do wish to say saying "everybody can do everything" is just crazy talk.

Also, once you make progress it's very easy to forget how hard it can be for others. Not everyone's situation is the same. It's like the business woman who makes it to the top, she's a minority of course, but she'll tell you "Others could do it easily." But if that were the case we'd have more women in upper management, however that isn't the case. Is that to say all women are incapable of these jobs? Nah, that's crazy talk, so obviously there is something else impeding progress, and that is very notably the inequalities we have in our lives. Is it impossible? Hell no, is it more difficult, fuck yes.

Oh, and you say it's not about race, and while I do realize it's not solely about race, you did go out of your way to point out that black people are naturally disadvantaged, which is why I felt it was necessary to make it a point that my own experiences are also those of a black person.

I didn't single out race it was simply my first choice. I could have easily used a case of female vs male or gay vs straight, the list of disadvantages in our society aren't simply limited to race. Colored vs Non-colored isn't even really pertaining to race because I know some really light skinned black people who are mistaken for white people, my grandma being one of them. At any rate, if it offended then sorry but it honestly shouldn't have, that wasn't my intent in the slightest.

[Anyway]

Stop being a troll, Magus. Practically begging someone to argue with you is pathetic.

Now my 2 cents. I sometimes feel bad for the homeless By homeless, I mean those who lost their homes due to legitimate reasons. This does not count drugs, alcohol, having way too many kids, just getting out of prison, or just straight up being lazy. None of the people homeless for those reasons deserve anything but a polite "Go fuck yourself" when they ask for anything. If you disagree with me, you're a brainless moron who donates to the Jimmy Fund at the movie theatre when 90% of that money goes TO the movie theatre.

Now if someone is homeless for any other reason, I would sympathize with them. But I can't really think of many other reasons besides maybe being crazy, losing all your money in the stock market (which again, your fault), or just straight up being born poor. The fact is, these people make up about 10% of the homeless population. So when a drunk ass bum begs me for change, I let out a hearty laugh and yell "WHO NEEDS CHANGE WHEN I HAVE PAPER, BABY!" and fan myself with 100 dollar bills.

[Woozie]

It's not as simple as saying "If everyone can do <action> then there would be more people who <done action>" like the analogy of the woman getting to a top position at her place of employment.

Pretty much everyone I know of who went to the street life COULD be in college with me right now or working some honest, decent paying job, or at least doing something good with their lives. They didn't because they chose to go to the street life. They weren't forced to, and they didn't have anything holding them back that me or my brother didn't have holding us back as well. People are choosing to go the wrong route because either they're young and naive and/or because they don't realize the true consequences of their actions. Either way, the reason we don't have more people doing said actions isn't because they are at that much of a disadvantage, but because people just aren't making the right choices.

[Maguspk]

It's not as simple as saying "If everyone can do <action> then there would be more people who <done action>" like the analogy of the woman getting to a top position at her place of employment.

Pretty much everyone I know of who went to the street life COULD be in college with me right now or working some honest, decent paying job, or at least doing something good with their lives. They didn't because they chose to go to the street life. They weren't forced to, and they didn't have anything holding them back that me or my brother didn't have holding us back as well. People are choosing to go the wrong route because either they're young and naive and/or because they don't realize the true consequences of their actions. Either way, the reason we don't have more people doing said actions isn't because they are at that much of a disadvantage, but because people just aren't making the right choices.

Right, they were influenced by their surroundings to proceed a certain way. That kind of societal pressure is nonexistent in other communities. That alone is a disadvantage, to be exposed to those kinds of attitudes. I won't try to create another example because it will fundamentally be able to be nit picked but I think you agree with the point at least that "everybody isn't born equally". That's all my post was about anyway.

Stop being a troll, Magus. Practically begging someone to argue with you is pathetic.

Trolling is when you try to antagonize people and get them angry or upset them. I think that's the exact opposite of what I'm doing considering I made it a point to say "this isn't meant to offend and it's just a counter argument." I believe by doing that I bypassed any chance for you to say I'm trolling.

[Howard Roark]

being 'born equally' or not still does not change the fact that everyone CAN have the same opportunities, however unlikely

and i think it's a really defeatist attitude to state that such and such is impossible for someone born in x conditions (unless you are born without the faculties to perform such a task, ie sprinting with no legs, singing with no vocal chords) and 'i don't want to offend anyone, this is just a counter argument' so i can say whatever i want and i'm not trolling so...

could you not be just making excuses for your own situation?


and the woods example was an ill-introduced hypothetical situation (you caught me), where you would find your wishful thinking a poor substitute for a means of defense against an unexpected predator

[Kuya]

Pretty much everyone I know of who went to the street life COULD be in college with me right now or working some honest, decent paying job, or at least doing something good with their lives. They didn't because they chose to go to the street life. They weren't forced to, and they didn't have anything holding them back that me or my brother didn't have holding us back as well. People are choosing to go the wrong route because either they're young and naive and/or because they don't realize the true consequences of their actions. Either way, the reason we don't have more people doing said actions isn't because they are at that much of a disadvantage, but because people just aren't making the right choices.

'
That's a nice assumption and everything, but you seem to be forgeting the countless road blocks erected by negative stereotypes and negative aspects of culture.

I'll give everyone one guess as to what the idea that people are absolutely responsible for their ultimate circumstances is related to.

[Howard Roark]

That's a nice assumption and everything, but you seem to be forgeting the countless road blocks erected by negative stereotypes and negative aspects of culture.

I'll give everyone one guess as to what the idea that people are absolutely responsible for their ultimate circumstances is related to.

i'm gonna assume you're referring to the bible/christianity bla bla

meh i guess so, if anything though, it's exactly the thought that anything would be pre-ordained that makes me angry and want to believe i can actually influence the probability of me not only surviving but prospering


i think people are confusing being able to live your life and being able to live it well/as you choose

and wasn't it calvinists (an unpopular sect of christians) who preached that you basically die as you were born? born a loser die a loser? they were pretty sold on preordainityismnessology (ya i don't know the noun for that)

anyway time to go home, work over

[Royal]

Can you guys shut up so we can hear about other stupid shit people have done? No one cares about your argument.

[Kuya]

That's a nice assumption and everything, but you seem to be forgeting the countless road blocks erected by negative stereotypes and negative aspects of culture.

I'll give everyone one guess as to what the idea that people are absolutely responsible for their ultimate circumstances is related to.

i'm gonna assume you're referring to the bible/christianity bla bla

meh i guess so, if anything though, it's exactly the thought that anything would be pre-ordained that makes me angry and want to believe i can actually influence the probability of me not only surviving but prospering


i think people are confusing being able to live your life and being able to live it well/as you choose

and wasn't it calvinists (an unpopular sect of christians) who preached that you basically die as you were born? born a loser die a loser? they were pretty sold on preordainityismnessology (ya i don't know the noun for that)

anyway time to go home, work over

The mistake you, and most people in this thread are making is assuming that because some things are out of your personal control, it inmediately means some sort of predestination that can't possibly be changed or averted. Hardly. It means that the social construction around these people needs to be changed, and one person can't do that alone. It's also silly that you guys act as if people are all the same and react the same to virtually similar environements when they are clearly not going to suffer past the same situations. Ever.

It's such a common human reaction to trow a fit or simply refuse the idea that they don't have as much control over things as they'd like to believe, and the reality is just that. You could affect it to certain extents, but that's about all you can do if you don't understand the situation completely. And no bible/christianity is too general. The ideologies that champion personal responsiblity and absolute individuality are laissez-faire philosophies such as capitalism/protestantism/empiricism. All three are some of the very basic principles the USA is based on. So it is no surprise to me that the majority of the posters here react in this manner.

[Izzy]

It's great that your black and made it out of a bad situation but like I said, individual cases aren't representing the majority.

Since we're on the topic of sterotypes, I think lazy black people are the majority.

OH SNAP LOL

[Izzy]

Oh and also, chill with the fucking race card. It's 2008 and you have a black man that, in my opinion will be the next president.

[Maguspk]

Oh and also, chill with the fucking race card. It's 2008 and you have a black man that, in my opinion will be the next president.

There is no race card, discussing race as I might have done shouldn't be taboo this day in age; making it so only furthers the problems by making it difficult to discuss them and as a result reinforces stereotypes indirectly due to a lack of information. Not to mention impedes progress in equality when you simply ignore it instead of realizing it exists. Just because a man with melanin in his skin is a presidential candidate doesn't mean racial equality has magically been achieved, lol.

btw, Kuya ftmfw.