chr in regards to charm

[Bartylby]

how much is too much, or is there not a quick falloff for chr making it easier to charm a mob?

a friend told me it was around +50, but i'm just asking to make sure

[Howard Roark]

different mobs have different charm success rates

slimes are semi hard to charm iirc so you'd want more, but i didnt

tbh i havent solo'd since 63 (68 now) but my CHR setup was 2x allure ring(4 each), gaudy(3), star neck (3), 2x melody+1 (2 each), apollo (2? + light bonus that i never cared to look into but any bst swears by light/apollo staff) if needed (didnt have grips then but throw in a bugard+1) corsette +1 (8) and then AF (too lazy to check which pieces have CHR and how much)

nq's are fine re: earrings and staff (i guess), gaudy not needed for the chr3 but the refresh bonus is too sick to pass up for when ur running around for pets


lastly if your question is pre-AF based get all the chr u can and dont cheap out with no monster signa, nothing sucks worse than dying from a mischarm midfight and wondering if better gear coulda saved ur life

edit: as for the quick falloff, if you notice you're charming easy as hell just add // to your chr swap macro and skip the light staff swap and keep ur tp (this is especially nice now with snarl)

[Bartylby]

i mean post af. talking about endgame bst getting the balance between AF and max chr.
the only non af piece i'm planning on using would be osode.

it's more of an issue with charming harder mobs, not nesc charming mobs with a high resistance to charm.

[Howard Roark]

ah, can't help ya there, i can't even wear my 3/5 bst af2 yet hehe

i find i can charm vt's with the gear i mentioned and it lasts long enough for me to find something better

and with the osode u'd be fine i'd imagine; i tossed my lohar cuz i didn't anticipate using it, and beyond a lohar or tsars egg (waste imo) i cant think of other chr+ pieces that you'd need/want except maybe luna subligar from Unut for town gear

[Aerides]

My main charm pieces are:

Osode
Bst AF1+1 trousers -
Trainer hands
Bst af1+1 feet (monster feet close to these)
Panther +1 head (or Af2, but i just full time cat+1 head atm)
Apollo's
Chr everywhere else pretty much.

I have 4/5 af2 but haven't played w/them much yet. Mostly is +Charm, not +Chr, compared to other pieces.

Also, since it's easier to get campaign xp on most other jobs, where does one use 75 bst besides the occasional trip to the chasm?

[Howard Roark]

i was guessing perhaps darter charms in aery idk lol

anywhere else i cant think of many charmables that are vt that you would want to

[Rasantath]

when i got to 75 and started getting af upgrades and such, i got rid of the chr rings and earrings, i found it unnecessary for 99% of situations
apollo's staff (a must-have for any bst) = chr+2, + charm-success-rate hidden effect
monster helm = chr+4, charm+5
kirin's osode = chr+10
bst. gloves +1 = chr+5, charm+3
bst. trousers +1 = chr+6, charm+6
bst. gaiters +1 = chr+5, charm+2
corsette +1 = chr+6
temperance torque = chr+5
= chr+43, charm+16

IMO this is plenty for just about everything. even overkill.
i still have my 2 melody earring +1's but i rarely bring them with me. that would add an extra 2x chr+2. .
could also get rings, Angel's Ring (+4) easily, Heavens Ring (+5) are a lot of money though, and rare.
monster jackcoat is ok if you dont have an osode, but you might want the rings.
i also have 5/5 bst afv2, but as you can see, i dont use it for charming so much.
i usually do try to pop charm off without the apollo's equipped first, unless its charm resistant mob like a mandy or a slime, or if its higher than EM (like darters)
i dont always get my monster gear out of storage either. so sometimes i dont have the monster helm with me.

edit:

i was guessing perhaps darter charms in aery idk lol

anywhere else i cant think of many charmables that are vt that you would want to

antlions in attowha chasm, for killing Xolotl
blubber eyes in sacrarium for killing Balor (hume swift belt nm). it takes 2 of them to take him down.
slimes in phomiuna for getting gaudy harness
theres probably a couple other places.

[Bartylby]

you have alot of my dream gear

i was planning on

apollo's staff
monster helm +1
kirin's osode
bst. gloves +1
bst. trousers +1
bst. gaiters +1
corsette +1
temperance torque
light rings x2
beastly & melody+1
tsars egg
strap

it would be +61 if i went all out for the perfect ammo and rings. but i probly wont cause i dont feel like paying 3m for 1 more chr on ammo, and an extra 600k for the rings which is insane when i have more important pieces to get atk-wise

i was asking first here cause of what my friend said though, i don't wanna go out of my way to get the best chr gear i could and have it be excess and a waste of money.

[Rasantath]

you have alot of my dream gear :P

i was planning on

apollo's staff
monster helm +1
kirin's osode
bst. gloves +1
bst. trousers +1
bst. gaiters +1
corsette +1
temperance torque
light rings x2
beastly & melody+1
tsars egg
strap

it would be +61 if i went all out for the perfect ammo and rings. but i probly wont cause i dont feel like paying 3m for 1 more chr on ammo, and an extra 600k for the rings which is insane when i have more important pieces to get atk-wise

i was asking first here cause of what my friend said though, i don't wanna go out of my way to get the best chr gear i could and have it be excess and a waste of money.

there is the possibility of going overboard on the chr, and that build does it. i've actually noticed here and there when i had TOO much chr that i would fail charms on an irregular basis. it seems there is some sort of breakpoint or something. or maybe its just me. thats part of the reason i dont use the chr earrings and rings anymore. that and inventory+4. a friend of mine runs about +23 or 24 on a regular basis (and he has brd75 too)

tsar's egg - good luck on getting one. hq 100 gold synth. beaucoup bucks and rare as hell.

strap - only one with chr on it is Bugard Strap and +1. both are only chr+1 too. waste of an inventory slot IMO. anything else is useless too because you are just going to be switching out to axe/shield or axe/axe as soon as your charm is done.

beastly earring - this is really only for hardcore, career bst's. back when i did divine might i was actually a hardcore, career bst, and i still chose the Suppanomimi because i knew it is the better choice unless you are bst-for-life (and dont plan on using nin sub not ever). even bst/nin, the suppa is a better choice IMO. with full axe merits and temp torque i *regularly* pull hate off my pet, which isnt good. its not as bad now with Snarl, but i dont always use a jug pet. when (if?) they make Snarl work for all pets and not just jugs, it will be more ok to pull hate, because you can just give it back. what i'm saying here is that the 5 extra axe skill might just get you killed if you have as good meleeing gear as your [planned] charm gear.

monster helm +1 - whitebox is great, but in reality this means only 1 extra chr, and if you have 5/5 monster its +5 inventory until you get a new one from dynamis windurst (or valkurm, yeah right) until you can store it again. most linkshells dont like doing windurst unless they have to.

[Rags]

you have alot of my dream gear

i was planning on

apollo's staff
monster helm +1
kirin's osode
bst. gloves +1
bst. trousers +1
bst. gaiters +1
corsette +1
temperance torque
light rings x2
beastly & melody+1
tsars egg
strap

it would be +61 if i went all out for the perfect ammo and rings. but i probly wont cause i dont feel like paying 3m for 1 more chr on ammo, and an extra 600k for the rings which is insane when i have more important pieces to get atk-wise

i was asking first here cause of what my friend said though, i don't wanna go out of my way to get the best chr gear i could and have it be excess and a waste of money.

there is the possibility of going overboard on the chr, and that build does it. i've actually noticed here and there when i had TOO much chr that i would fail charms on an irregular basis. it seems there is some sort of breakpoint or something. or maybe its just me. thats part of the reason i dont use the chr earrings and rings anymore. that and inventory+4. a friend of mine runs about +23 or 24 on a regular basis (and he has brd75 too)

tsar's egg - good luck on getting one. hq 100 gold synth. beaucoup bucks and rare as hell.

strap - only one with chr on it is Bugard Strap and +1. both are only chr+1 too. waste of an inventory slot IMO. anything else is useless too because you are just going to be switching out to axe/shield or axe/axe as soon as your charm is done.

beastly earring - this is really only for hardcore, career bst's. back when i did divine might i was actually a hardcore, career bst, and i still chose the Suppanomimi because i knew it is the better choice unless you are bst-for-life (and dont plan on using nin sub not ever). even bst/nin, the suppa is a better choice IMO. with full axe merits and temp torque i *regularly* pull hate off my pet, which isnt good. its not as bad now with Snarl, but i dont always use a jug pet. when (if?) they make Snarl work for all pets and not just jugs, it will be more ok to pull hate, because you can just give it back. what i'm saying here is that the 5 extra axe skill might just get you killed if you have as good meleeing gear as your [planned] charm gear.

monster helm +1 - whitebox is great, but in reality this means only 1 extra chr, and if you have 5/5 monster its +5 inventory until you get a new one from dynamis windurst (or valkurm, yeah right) until you can store it again. most linkshells dont like doing windurst unless they have to.

I feel the same way. For the longest time I haven't gone out to exp or goof around with anything more then +26 Chr. The only time I will really bump the Chr numbers thru the roof is when I am fighting an HNM and the only thing I can charm are Toughs. But I do think you are wrong when you say overloading lower the success rate. I really think it was your bad luck day.

[Rasantath]

entirely possible. charm can just be random sometimes.

edit: i have this theory that chr doesn't actually raise your chance to charm, but more lower your chance to FAIL charm. somewhere in there is the reason why there is always a chance to fail a charm on even an level 0 mob.

[Bartylby]

yea this is all just me planning for what i want it. i see recently that i'm lacking inventory space in a major way carrying around axe, charm and scythe gear. lol
and yes i'm a career bst, i would choose the suppa under normal circumstances, but having read auriks post on haste i feel that having the extra axe skill would benefit me alot more.


on an unrelated topic does anyone know how well an awesomely equipped bst subbing thf using spiral hell does on gods or just higher level nm type mobs in general?

[Rasantath]

at 300 tp with sata it works pretty good. can definately use it for skillchaining, or just a high damage single shot. then switch to axe.
also, flamigo's tear up genbu
and i have screenshots of me intimidating suzaku a couple times though :) after tanks getting beat in the face and me kiting cause i was the only one left alive with hate...

[Trayu]

From what I have seen leveling bst and rdm/bst, nin/bst. All and all, the real deciding factor in a successful charm rate is an apollo's staff. As a nin/bst, with low base chr, I had just a mediocore chr macro for charms, maybe +25?, but always had apollo's macro'd in. When I was tight on cash I sold it and got nq. Almost instantly I could tell that the charm rates dropped and it practically forced me to repurchase the hq if I wanted to continue soloing with /bst.
Although, my experience is limited to EM and ~maybe~ some T mobs, if you're trying to charm some VT/IT tigers to fight amemet... maybe you want more chr gear to pass the mob's chr.

[SephYuyX]

I follow a simple rule.
I go in with all Charm+ stuff (and CHR secondary) and if I fail, I just switch to my CHR gear (with Charm+ secondary).

If youre fighting an NM and you need to ensure your chamr works, go CHR, if youre just dicking around and skilling or w/e, just use Charm+.