Are you racist?

[Deejay]

Tell me what part of this statement is untrue.

If a white man can't get a rise out of a black man calling him a nigger, he'll stop calling him a nigger.
(which leads back to deterimism)

White people don't use the word to get a "rise" out of black people. They use it to describe folks with black skin. Me getting offended by the word will never change what they associate it with. Which is why your argument is fucking retarded.

[Stromgarde]

UK people help me out, what's a chav?

[Melchiah]

Cupcake now means a classless, willfully ignorant criminal scumbag of indeterminate ethnicity. Nigger now means a delicious baked good covered in yummy chocolate frosting with sprinkles on top.

Now imagine if this had always been the case. You'd be hating the cupcakes in front of you at the bakery where you were eating some niggers.

It's the listener who makes the choice to be offended. I don't know what the fuck you mean by calling that girl a dime, therefore I'm not offended.

Do you understand now?

You made the racial connection, not me. Rephrased both parts to clarify my meaning. Try again.

shut up, you don't know what you are talking about

My example is perfectly sound.

[sunb1ind]

Tell me what part of this statement is untrue.

If a white man can't get a rise out of a black man calling him a nigger, he'll stop calling him a nigger.
(which leads back to deterimism)

White people don't use the word to get a "rise" out of black people. They use it to describe folks with black skin. Me getting offended by the word will never change what they associate it with. Which is why your argument is fucking retarded.

This is why linguistics majors do not belong in cultural discussions. Your book-smarts don't help with shit in the real world.

[Darus Grey]

A perfect example of this is the word retard. 30 years ago this word wasn't considered negative, but now it is. Why? Because people started using/associating the word with negative characteristics. It only takes one person to use the word in a negative light for it to start to change it's interpretation.

Furthermore, the meaning of the word "retard" has never changed. It still means the same thing that it did 30 years ago, regardless of how people react to it.

Bad example I think, it's meaning did change. Retarded was primarily used as a term for inanimate objects, and when it started being used on humans it's meaning changed to reflect a series of specific mental diseases, then in more recent years it became a synonym for excessively stupid.

It's DICTIONARY definition has not changed. But linguistics hate dictionaries, because the reference meaning has nothing to do with it's common usage.
(Just for the record if you ever get in an actual argument about llinguistics, mentioning of a dictionary is pretty much auto-fail)

[Melchiah]

White people don't use the word to get a "rise" out of black people. They use it to describe folks with black skin.

Some white people do this, yes. Some white people use the word just like everyone who calls himself and his associates a nigger. Again, race is irrelevant when you have multitudes of ethnicities using the same fucking word to describe themselves. None of you fucking crybabies have addressed this point yet, because you know it's invincible.

[Beckwin]

Tell me what part of this statement is untrue.

If a white man can't get a rise out of a black man calling him a nigger, he'll stop calling him a nigger.
(which leads back to deterimism)

Nothing will change that nigger was HISTORICALLY used as a racial slur, because that's factual.

But you'd be surprised how many common word's we used were once insults or slurs, and their accepted meaning in modern times has nothing to do with their historical use.

Eventually it won't be a racial slur in a modern context, and eventually, people will forget it's historical usage.

Assuming we don't remind them of it every chance we get.

Also I was referring to your edit that the user determines meaning as wrong, which it is.

The only insult-based word I can think of that people don't really remember the meaning of is gypped (comes from gypsy, as in they'd give you a bad deal/product).

Honestly Darus, your argument focused on the word nigger needs a couple hundred years before really trying to make it. The history of the word is too long and ugly and recent. The use and offensiveness of it is recorded in modern film and literature. You'll need quite a few more generations so it'll get to the point where the vast majority won't encounter the word as a hateful thing.

Also, you may want to think of the implications of asking someone to just "not be offended" when someone completely degrades them as a person based on their natural, physical self. I'd say there's another side to it than just not letting them win, rubber vs. glue style.

[Darus Grey]

White people don't use the word to get a "rise" out of black people. They use it to describe folks with black skin. Me getting offended by the word will never change what they associate it with. Which is why your argument is fucking retarded.

So your upset at them using it as a synonym for a color. Think about that logically and realize how silly that truly is.

To ryko: Linguistics is the foundation of culture. We cannot have a culture that we cannot express.

uct).

Honestly Darus, your argument focused on the word nigger needs a couple hundred years before really trying to make it.

I never said it didn't, but you are entirely correct. These changes take decades and more to really take hold in culture, I said before we are in a transition phase. And I'm only focusing on nigger because thats the word everyone else started focusing on(another example of empowering it).

Gypped is a good example btw, It escapes me but theres a (antiquated) UK english term for a chair that used to be a racial slur against slavics.

[Deejay]

White people don't use the word to get a "rise" out of black people. They use it to describe folks with black skin.

Some white people do this, yes. Some white people use the word just like everyone who calls himself and his associates a nigger.

So by acknowleding this you're saying that the meaning of the word changes with how we use it. Not with how we interpret it.

Thanks for proving my point kthxbi

[Vistani]

A perfect example of this is the word retard. 30 years ago this word wasn't considered negative, but now it is. Why? Because people started using/associating the word with negative characteristics. It only takes one person to use the word in a negative light for it to start to change it's interpretation.

Furthermore, the meaning of the word "retard" has never changed. It still means the same thing that it did 30 years ago, regardless of how people react to it.

Bad example I think, it's meaning did change. Retarded was primarily used as a term for inanimate objects, and when it started being used on humans it's meaning changed to reflect a series of specific mental diseases, then in more recent years it became a synonym for excessively stupid.

It's DICTIONARY definition has not changed. But linguistics hate dictionaries, because the reference meaning has nothing to do with it's common usage.
(Just for the record if you ever get in an actual argument about llinguistics, mentioning of a dictionary is pretty much auto-fail)

What non-dictionary interpretation are you using of "it's"? Four times in one fucking post.

[Beckwin]

White people don't use the word to get a "rise" out of black people. They use it to describe folks with black skin.

Some white people do this, yes. Some white people use the word just like everyone who calls himself and his associates a nigger. Again, race is irrelevant when you have multitudes of ethnicities using the same fucking word to describe themselves. None of you fucking crybabies have addressed this point yet, because you know it's invincible.

That point is not invincible, because nothing will ever take the black out of nigger. Literally, it's the basis for the damn word. No matter how many classless, willfully ignorant, scumbags decide they want to use the word, it'll always imply black and it will always be the same word found in books and movies.

For all this talk about "just hating stupid people", let's talk about white/asian/arabic/hispanic people calling each other black.

[Melchiah]

White people don't use the word to get a "rise" out of black people. They use it to describe folks with black skin.

Some white people do this, yes. Some white people use the word just like everyone who calls himself and his associates a nigger.

So by acknowleding this you're saying that the meaning of the word changes with how we use it. Not with how we interpret it.

Thanks for proving my point kthxbi

thx4 taking shit out of context and ignoring half my post. When I think of the word nigger, what comes to mind is a classless, willfully ignorant criminal scumbag of indeterminate ethnicity. When you hear the word nigger, you think of a black person.

Words have different meanings to different cultures. You choose to be offended because your interpretation of the word differs from mine, and you decide that yours is the only correct one, and since it is offensive to you you are offended. It's still a conscious choice on your part. My use of the word is meant to degrade the individuals I applied it to. If you are not in that category, it doesn't apply to you. You apply it to yourself, willfully.

[sunb1ind]

God this guy makes no sense at all, it hurts my head to read his posts.... who the fuck cares what YOU THINK the word means. Go read a fuckin history book.

[Sho]

Pfft @ this thread. How sad.

Not racist btw.

[Deejay]

White people don't use the word to get a "rise" out of black people. They use it to describe folks with black skin.

Some white people do this, yes. Some white people use the word just like everyone who calls himself and his associates a nigger.

So by acknowleding this you're saying that the meaning of the word changes with how we use it. Not with how we interpret it.

Thanks for proving my point kthxbi

thx4 taking shit out of context and ignoring half my post. When I think of the word nigger, what comes to mind is a classless, willfully ignorant criminal scumbag of indeterminate ethnicity. When you hear the word nigger, you think of a black person.

Words have different meanings to different cultures. You choose to be offended because your interpretation of the word differs from mine, and you decide that yours is the only correct one, and since it is offensive to you you are offended. It's still a conscious choice on your part. My use of the word is meant to degrade the individuals I applied it to. If you are not in that category, it doesn't apply to you. You apply it to yourself, willfully.

What does me getting offended have to do with your conscious decision to use the word in a different connotation.

You're saying that I'm willingly allowing the word (that stems from black) to annoy me, and i'm supposed to allow you (the user) to use the word however you see fit. Who is trying to change the meaning of the word nigger in this case, the user or the listener?

Again, thanks for proving my point.

[Melchiah]

What does <insert generic rapper name> mean when he uses the word?


Why is it ok for one group of people to do something but not okay for another group to do the same thing? When the only differing criteria is the color of the skin?

Why do black people get offended at the use of the word nigger when a person of European ancestry says it, and not when their associates say it?

This last question proves it's not the word that is offensive. It's a perception by the listener.

[sunb1ind]

You can't be serious?

[Melchiah]

You can't answer my questions?

[Beckwin]

uct).

Honestly Darus, your argument focused on the word nigger needs a couple hundred years before really trying to make it.

I never said it didn't, but you are entirely correct. These changes take decades and more to really take hold in culture, I said before we are in a transition phase. And I'm only focusing on nigger because thats the word everyone else started focusing on(another example of empowering it).

Gypped is a good example btw, It escapes me but theres a (antiquated) UK english term for a chair that used to be a racial slur against slavics.

Everyone started focusing on it because it's the most widely used slur on the western/american frequented side of the internet and it's definitely got the worse history associated with it for Americans. Wop, kike, chink, nip, gook, spic, trog- as horrible as those may be in terms of recalling histories (and present-day) of racism and discrimination in this country, nigger still overshadows (and I'm hoping no one would need an explanation as to why).

You know, you can take the thunder out of a word by uh, just not using it. There are a lot of really (now) silly sounding slurs that are so out of use that they'd be hard to find offensive. Now before you point back to my argument of using a different word if nigger became unoffensive or whatever, think of this: whatever word used would still be used in a context of racism- and that's the point. I'm saying it'd take generations because ideally, we're seeing traditional racism diminish over time due to progress in thought, urbanization, and growing relationship diversity. Eventually the word wouldn't be a "problem" because there'd be so few that would actually use it, having much less to do with the meaning of the word but rather the need for it (we make and use words because we need them for something). So basically if you aren't intending to be racially deriding a black person... just don't say nigger? Tough concept to grasp, I know.

[Melchiah]

I can agree with that. And it won't happen overnight.

Even though the best solution is probably, as Beckwin said, to just not use the word, I still don't believe the word itself is the root of the problem. It's an attitude that is the problem.