*NMS* Soldier throws puppy off cliff (video)

[Zetah]

I don't care what anybody says, it's fake with added audio.

[HAcoreRD]

And to add to that.. it's not that we just care about "a stupid dog". It's the consideration for ALL LIFE in ALL LIFE FORMS in general. Do you think that man cares about taking the lives of innocent people if he can throw a PUPPY off a cliff? Absolutely not.

So...this dog's getting more attention than the rest of the war for the past day(s)? Sad, a dog's insignifigant life weighs more than several humans who die daily.

[DragonCloud64]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...a/505/nedm.jpg
Happycat is saddened

[ronin sparthos]

And to add to that.. it's not that we just care about "a stupid dog". It's the consideration for ALL LIFE in ALL LIFE FORMS in general. Do you think that man cares about taking the lives of innocent people if he can throw a PUPPY off a cliff? Absolutely not.

So...this dog's getting more attention than the rest of the war for the past day(s)? Sad, a dog's insignifigant life weighs more than several humans who die daily.

Because the typical person doesnt get to see enough of the blood and guts that warfare is made of to make informed decisions as to what is bad and what is really fucked up.

Instead of showing a possibly shopped video of soldiers throwing a dog to its death (if it even was alive) maybe the public needs to see some dead people or whats left of a suicide bomber when they detonate themselves to understand that this is just a drop in the bucket of whats going on in that warzone. Maybe then people wont just hop up and say 'lets go to war!' when they have never seen warfare before.

Its bad, yeah and not very soldier-like - but the daily blood and guts over there makes this 'outrage' look fucking silly.

[Correction]

And to add to that.. it's not that we just care about "a stupid dog". It's the consideration for ALL LIFE in ALL LIFE FORMS in general. Do you think that man cares about taking the lives of innocent people if he can throw a PUPPY off a cliff? Absolutely not.

So...this dog's getting more attention than the rest of the war for the past day(s)? Sad, a dog's insignifigant life weighs more than several humans who die daily.

So where the fuck are your daily posts about the fatalities in Iraq?

Oh right they aren't there, because you're too busy trying to equate feeling bad for a killed dog with some weird hypocrisy that was never expressed.

Why am I not allowed to feel bad for the dog again?

[Charla]

I think the idea is that we're all supposed to feel bad for the dog but not make a big deal about it because it's more important to make a bigger deal out of more important things. Too bad this is the internets, and we'll make a big deal out of whatever we feel like.

[Correction]

I think the idea is that we're all supposed to feel bad for the dog but not make a big deal about it because it's more important to make a bigger deal out of more important things. Too bad this is the internets, and we'll make a big deal out of whatever we feel like.

Here's my basic beef with the tone taken by the 'forget about the dog' side of the argument.

The OP is about a killed dog.

People begin posting in this thread about the dog and how it sucks the way it died, that the person who killed it is a U.S. Marine. Hey, on-topic posting isn't any kind of sin.

Other folks begin lambasting the commenters to the video on youtube/break/etc. and how they're overreacting.

The Internet happens, and the attacks on the youtube commenters turn into attacks on people who feel bad for this dog in the thread here as if somehow we're of like minds and value the animal's life over human lives lost daily in wars around the world.

It's this final leap taken that bothers me and I wish it had never happened, because now suddenly I'm put in a position where I have to call people who say 'human life is worth more than animal life' complete retards for missing the point of the thread, even though I have no argument with that stance. Don't call me a hypocrite or ignorant of human suffering in the war just because I expressed pity for a killed animal. Doing that is a FOX News-esque leap over logic and the evidence at hand.

[Maguspk]

I called the Marine Corps base in Hawaii and left a message in their offices. I'm sure they're being flooded, but those marines need to be charged to the fullest extent. What kind of message is that sending home to America in a time of war when an innocent, helpless puppy gets thrown to its death by the very people defending this country? Sick bastards.

Uhm, no. It's a dog being thrown off a cliff not a soldier committing mutiny and killing hundreds, or something, when they least suspect it. There are much worse things that can and should be punished as opposed to killing an animal. Just because we can relate to dogs on a more personal level because they are more attractive to the human eye doesn't mean it should be equated to killing a human or another offense of much greater magnitude....

"What kind of message is that sending home to American in a time of war when an innocent, helpless puppy gets thrown to its death..."? It's a message of, two soldiers are stupid and did something that in my eyes was unnecessary and childish. Equating it to the end of worlds or some ridiculous transgression however, is equally stupid and childish.

The reactions disagreeing with the puppy being thrown off a cliff make sense. Sure it's upsetting and makes you want them to be punished. But like I said, equating it to something drastically more offensive and/or illegal is not logical.

[ronin sparthos]

Killing a Dog = Bad
Death of a Dog by US Marines = Fuel to an already burning fire
Possibility this vid is shopped/edited in some way = possible.
If this video was shopped, look how many people would be wooshed by it and the public reaction.

No one is arguing the fact that this was a pretty bad act of needless violence (if its completely real) and some people will always value human life over an animals. (hence why we treat livestock like shit, have tier systems on animals etc)

2 soldiers just did something stupid and immature, the real questions the public should be asking is why the 2 individuals were there in the first place to be doing something as stupid as this. Saying you hope the soldiers are killed by an IED is stupid, and enough of them have died for a war that seems to be taking just too many lives.

[Beckwin]

man if anyone here giving the "oh well there's worse shit going on"/"it's just a dog" are also sporting huge rage-ons in the GameStop and Scientology threads right now, a solar system is gonna implode somewhere, or something like that.

[sexxxytaru]

And to add to that.. it's not that we just care about "a stupid dog". It's the consideration for ALL LIFE in ALL LIFE FORMS in general. Do you think that man cares about taking the lives of innocent people if he can throw a PUPPY off a cliff? Absolutely not.

So...this dog's getting more attention than the rest of the war for the past day(s)? Sad, a dog's insignifigant life weighs more than several humans who die daily.

Because the typical person doesnt get to see enough of the blood and guts that warfare is made of to make informed decisions as to what is bad and what is really fucked up.

Instead of showing a possibly shopped video of soldiers throwing a dog to its death (if it even was alive) maybe the public needs to see some dead people or whats left of a suicide bomber when they detonate themselves to understand that this is just a drop in the bucket of whats going on in that warzone. Maybe then people wont just hop up and say 'lets go to war!' when they have never seen warfare before.

Its bad, yeah and not very soldier-like - but the daily blood and guts over there makes this 'outrage' look fucking silly.

Really? Cause, have you actually been there?

[sexxxytaru]

And to add to that.. it's not that we just care about "a stupid dog". It's the consideration for ALL LIFE in ALL LIFE FORMS in general. Do you think that man cares about taking the lives of innocent people if he can throw a PUPPY off a cliff? Absolutely not.

So...this dog's getting more attention than the rest of the war for the past day(s)? Sad, a dog's insignifigant life weighs more than several humans who die daily.

*ZOOM* That statement went right over your head.

[Vail]

I think it was on the first page where somone commented about our tax dollars paying for our soliders and "I didn't pay for people like that" or something along those lines.

Military personal aren't payed very well, PERIOD. When I was enlisted I was payed 1400 a month (not counting living arrangments in a barricks and "meals" in a galley) for me working 70 hours a week (I'm not joking, 5-12s + extra hours) if you account housing and food into the mix of income. It's no greater then 1900 (and I was an E-4, there are others who are payed less) for that kinda hours that's appx 6.80 an hour. I know each state is different: but in Oregon minimum wage is 7.95, so I was well under payed for the time I put in.

when you pay people that god damn little you don't get to pick the best people. Alot of military enlisted come from poor/broken families, the kinda families who are your lower and middle class families. So don't sit there and act like you can impose you're moral high ground on people who are, honest to god, treated much less human then you are.

Someone else mentioned people going into the military for college: fair warning to ANYONE who is in the service or thinking about joining the service for college. The odds of you using the montgomery GI bill are extremely slim (the number given to me by the outprocessing repressentive when I left the service stated under 8% of all military members get to even touch any of it, and under 2% even get to use the full beneifts) And for those that get to use any of it, it's an extremely long and daugnting process, of applying and request for anything/everything. If you think dealing with the DMV's red tape is bad, try getting your montgomery GI bill money !!!

I know sure well that Recruiters don't want you asking them that question, and if you are speaking to a recruiter you should ask, and ask them to show you some real data with whatever they tell you.

I sound kinda bitter about my time in the military but I assure you that as bad as it was for me, it was still one of the best things I ever did in my life. It got me off the street and no longer homeless. Allowed me to astablish a savings (albet I could have made a much larger one if I found a job outside of the military for that same time frame)

If anyone reading this wants to know some good questions for thier recruiter, I'm more then willing to give out what little wisdom I have. What you take from it is your choice as the picking at sand. But if you want that other prospective then just what a recruiter feeds you feel free to PM me, I'll tell you what it's like (good and bad)

Edit: I've read parts of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) and I don't really remember any part speaking about animal cruelty. It would most likely fall under local law (which over in Iraq idk what kinda laws they have if any about what happened). So I don't really forsee anything happening to this guy other then some Nonjudicial punishment. Which honestly NJP for someone in a warzone honestly isn't much of a strech over some of the stuff they already have to deal with.
NJP for enlisted personal is limited to: (one or more/all of the following)
-Restriction to specific limits (normally place of duty, barracks, place of worship, mess hall, and medical facilities) for not more than 60 days
-Extra duties, including fatigue or other duties, for not more than 45 days
-Restriction with extra duties for not more than 45 days
-Correctional Custody for not more than 30 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
-Forfeiture of one half of base pay for two months
-Reduction by one (NCO below E-6 in USMC or E-7 otherwise) or more (sub-NCO) grades.
-Confinement on diminished rations or bread and water for not more than 3 days (USN and USMC -E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
-Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal.

[Correction]

They could be hit with 'conduct unbecoming,' the catch-all conveniently vague 'you fucked up' section of the UCMJ that they use to arbitrarily kick men/women out of the service. That's usually grounds for court martial/dishonorable discharge.

But apart from that it is true that it will be hard to actually punish these men. I'd just be satisfied with the dishonorble discharge.

[Vail]

They could be hit with 'conduct unbecoming,' the catch-all conveniently vague 'you fucked up' section of the UCMJ that they use to arbitrarily kick men/women out of the service. That's usually grounds for court martial/dishonorable discharge.

Conduct unbecmong of an officer
now, I'm not JAG nor was I a legalmen when I was in service, but if memory services me right (I could be equally wrong, in all fairness) that this doesn't apply to enlisted members

it's likely they could extend ART. 93 (Cruelty and Maltreatment) or ART. 124 (Maiming) to include animals

or if a legal case is made against him (not UCMJ) and convictions him of animal cruelty they could latch on ART 79, that's the thing about the UCMJ people, they CAN try you for the same crime and simply use the verdict from the civilian court to for their UCMJ punishment. A great example is murder: you'd be punished by state/local law then you would be punished by the UCMJ and you would have to service both punishments~ d('-'*) little heads up for the bad people going into the military.

Edit:

something I kinda wanna add for flavor: before I joined the Navy, I rented a room from a former service man who's son had just joined the Marines. I remember this son telling me a very LONG story about how in Marine Boot Camp they give you a puppy and he went on to describe all the activities and duties assigned to you in taking care and training this young puppy, at the end of the story he revealed that: in order to graduate you have to kill your puppy with your own hands (this is a lie, this story was told to me as a joke to gain my shock, so anyone reading this do NOT take this story seriously) so this whole thread has accually brought back the memory of this story.

[Ushallbeasgods]

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
- Joseph Stalin

[Ramor]

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
- Joseph Stalin

my 9th grade history teacher opened the year with that quote, it's always been a favorite.

[Max™]

Kill a man, you're a murderer.
Kill a million, you're a king.
Kill them all, you're a god.

[Charla]

Kill a man, you're a murderer.
Kill a million, you're a king.
Kill them all, you're a god.
Kill youself, you're a madman.

finished

[Octavious]

I might have missed it...but has anyone mentioned it's just a dog? The only reason it bothers people is that dogs=pets. Would it be different if someone chucked a pig off a cliff? Or a Cow? (Damn I want to see a cow catapult) Idk, I'm not saying I would ever encourage or support the behavior, but I don't see why it's such a travesty to some people. I mean have you ever seen how they kill pigs for pork? Rod Gun to the skull then they're skinned, sounds pretty nice to me.

Idk, much worse things are done to other animals AND PEOPLE and then ppl flip out over a dog. Shoot, people love veal but people don't mind the kiilling of baby calves for it. If meat is murder then murder tastes damn good. >_>