BST in salvage

[aurik]

Solsovly sucks, I have parses to prove it.








BST is not a horrible job by any stretch in Salvage. But many jobs perform better with less cells.

[Vistani]

Solsovly sucks, he can't even charm level 0 rabbits.

[Shuemue]

Solsovly was defeated by the behemoth hide.

[Bartylby]

i don't mind straying from the OP. using this as a base for any bst question is fine by me as i love gaining new knowledge about my job.

random question.

how does feral howl handle in areas like salvage/nyzul/einherjar, and does anyone know what increases it's chance of success and or duration.

and would killer instinct be as good as it looks like it would for certain mob pulls, not so much for salvage/nyzul but more for einherjar where you HAVE to fight alot of enemies at once.

[Metah]

Feral Howl is based on level difference, at least I think so from what I've seen using it. For some reason, it never works for me in Campaign, always misses. I've had it work in Salvage before though, I don't really keep track of its success record. Einherjar, Nyzul: I can't offer anything to say on it.

In terms of duration, its like 2-5 seconds? Again, I haven't really timed it. I don't think you can improve its duration or success rate. Merit information doesn't say it improves when you merit it further, but I guess its possible.

[Feedmenow]

Snarl makes /WAR viable. Snarl makes /NIN even better. If you have a good gear setup, /NIN will outshine war on many levels including snarl usage (which imo is one of the best updates we could have gotten). If you really want to get into details on why, I can reply later tonight.

Can you go further into this?

[Koga]

Snarl makes /WAR viable. Snarl makes /NIN even better. If you have a good gear setup, /NIN will outshine war on many levels including snarl usage (which imo is one of the best updates we could have gotten). If you really want to get into details on why, I can reply later tonight.

Can you go further into this?

I regularly go as BST to salvage.
I can have carrie pull 3~4 mobs and will tank them all like a pro while everyone picks them off.... Not to mention that after the first few floors that if you do massive damage all you have to do is /snarl and the hate is xfered.. so when carrie dies you are hate free essentially.

[Feedmenow]

Snarl makes /WAR viable. Snarl makes /NIN even better. If you have a good gear setup, /NIN will outshine war on many levels including snarl usage (which imo is one of the best updates we could have gotten). If you really want to get into details on why, I can reply later tonight.

Can you go further into this?

I regularly go as BST to salvage.
I can have carrie pull 3~4 mobs and will tank them all like a pro while everyone picks them off.... Not to mention that after the first few floors that if you do massive damage all you have to do is /snarl and the hate is xfered.. so when carrie dies you are hate free essentially.

This doesn't explain how /nin outshines /war on many levels with snarl usage.

[ryanjh]

With some luck on the cells from the fomors at the beginning of SSR, it seems like CC might end up being the best possible option for pulling the 6 fomors that spawn Hammerblow. Someone mentioned another pulling method for the 6, but CC would probably be better than the "Straight tank monk with phalanx 2 and cure bombing" method, provided the cells drop the way you need them to.

[vagus]

BST is not a horrible job by any stretch in Salvage. But many jobs perform better with less cells.

This pretty much sums it up, however a very interesting thread never the less. I'm tempted to go bst/war for Nyzul Isle though. :D

[Seditedi]

i don't get it. why would /war be better than nin, ever? especially if you had amazing equipment

zerk, DA, and attack bonus?

Not having DW lowers your overall DoT imo, TP slower also.

[Eratosthenes]

Salvage:
BST is below average and mediocre in salvage. (note, I believe BST does very well in most other events). Requires too many important cells to be useful at the start. Unlocked, it's about the same as any other DD except it cannot cotank nearly as well. This may be important to some groups as most groups run with a very lean and effecient set up that can't afford to have "just another dd".

Subjobs and snarl
Snarl makes /WAR viable. Snarl makes /NIN even better. If you have a good gear setup, /NIN will outshine war on many levels including snarl usage (which imo is one of the best updates we could have gotten). If you really want to get into details on why, I can reply later tonight.

Nyzul:
Nothing is charmable, sorry. However, BST shines here with jugpets due to the large amount of damage they deal to lower level mobs, the extra survivability of snarl and the normal bonus of having a pet to manage various agro/hate concerns. One of my favorite events as a BST.

I agree with all of this. I wish I had seen this thread sooner; I would have said this myself.

I feel BSTs do better as the number of players in the event decreases, which is where having a pet becomes more of an advantage. This makes BST a great choice for many Assaults, including Nyzul Isle.

[Ahlah]

With some luck on the cells from the fomors at the beginning of SSR, it seems like CC might end up being the best possible option for pulling the 6 fomors that spawn Hammerblow. Someone mentioned another pulling method for the 6, but CC would probably be better than the "Straight tank monk with phalanx 2 and cure bombing" method, provided the cells drop the way you need them to.

Unfortunately, Firght is considered as a job ability and the moment you hit the macro, all fomors will start chasing after you. Pet job as a puller doesn't work in SSR, will have been super easy if fomor can be pet pulled.

Since I started doing salvage I have been trying to make use of my BST. To be honest if I will bring a pet job to salvage it's going to be PUP rather than BST. Can probably bring BST to ZR if planning on using widescan to locate mobs that drop cell (doubt if ppl still do that). BST/DRK vs LAC will be quite fun too but some1 else already posted the result apparently CC died too fast and BST is limited by 5 min Call Beast recast.

As mentioned above, BST is not a bad job but there are other jobs that can do better with fewer cells.

[Midnightjade]

We've taken BST into Nyzul Isle, and nothing's charmable. It can still be a very useful DD, but you have to watch how much TP you're feeding the mobs in there, otherwise they start spamming moves back at you.

I guess /WAR or /NIN are both OK. I tend to use /NIN a lot on my BST, since if you have to solo a mob (as you often do in Nyzul) it allows you to co-tank with your jug, and so the pet lasts a lot longer. Start with 3 shadows, get the mob's attention with WS, then Ichi>Ni>Ichi, at which point both timers are down and so you then hit Snarl. TP to 100, WS to get mob's attention, and start tanking again.

[Drona]

I lurk this forum mostly and as a rule avoid BST discussions because too many people that are nonBST get butt hurt when BST show they can do something. There must be a lot of butthurt here already because people are just talking out there ass.

A well equipped BST that is a good player is really much more valuable than portrayed by people posting here that have not soloed bst to 75 or gone to many salvages as bst or in a group with a competent bst. First of all I have gone to salvage a lot as 75 whm and bst. Thus I know from playing whm how much support various jobs need from whm.

I am not going to list all my gear but it is pretty high end, +1 hauby, temperance axe, temperance neck, manny, jugger, heca gear, ws set and of course dusk and other haste gear if situation dictates it. Lars or carrie depending on current need and of course full axe and affinity merits, bla blah blah.

I agree that bst should not get rng first. Nevertheless as bst in salvage I could keep up with most dd alone and surpass others with at times, adding pet just pushes me over almost always. Big deal, that is not why bst is really useful. The hp of carrie makes her really great for mob control. After going bst a couple of times I was always assigned that job unless we were just way undermanned for magic support.

For salvage it is just stupid to go /war. If the opportunity makes subjob available later in the run, which in my experience was 8/10 runs then dual weild and gaudy harness, rune axe x2 is enormously helpful. Compared to war in many, many situations in nyzul, assault, and salvage taking a war over a pimped bst is just dumb. If you think bst is just another dd i feel bad for you because you have never been around a good bst.

[Skeetaru]

how well does it do ? from looking at it from the outside, the pet not being restricted by all the status down and locked armor effects seems like it would be a wrecking ball.

no

[Ahlah]

I am not going to list all my gear but it is pretty high end, +1 hauby, temperance axe, temperance neck, manny, jugger, heca gear, ws set and of course dusk and other haste gear if situation dictates it. Lars or carrie depending on current need and of course full axe and affinity merits, bla blah blah.

What's the use of having the best gear when you can't even wear them in Salvage? How often do you even get to unlock all the nice gear you just mentioned?

I lead a Salvage group on Midgard and I am lv75 BST for 3 years, have been trying to make BST work in Salvage but if I am going to take a pet job to Salvage PUP will win in any given situation.

Let's compare WAR and BST since you mentioned it:
A naked WAR will be able to participate in fight from the moment party enters Salvage since WAR has natural h2h skill and still does decent damage thanks to DA, attack bonus trait etc. When WAR receive weapon cell they can switch to G axe whereas a BST can only use Axe + shield, i.e. no access to Temperance axe (think of Arrapago Remnant). BST need both SJ and range cell to make use of temperance axe whereas ridill WAR only need SJ cell to dualwield axe/sword. WAR will be able to contribute to cell farming on the first floor with less cell requirement and still do better overall damage.

Both BST and jugpet feeding TP to gears and chariot is also a very bad idea. This is where PUP shine in Salvage, PUP can land ~1k nuke consistently with BLM automaton and only feed them 10TP per nuke. The damage is hate free and PUP don't have to get into aoe range to use maneuvre.

[Drona]

lol the antibst ahlah speaks.

First of all everyone does not need to fight the minute you enter, If subjob is open and no ammo slot then man/jug is suffecient for most wussy salvage mobs. If no subjob then tatami shield gives nice str bonus and having full intimidation merits is helpful.

The thing about having the best equipment possible is that you maximally capitalize on any cell that you do get, so yeah having a lot of good gear is helpful even if you do not get it all.

Ahlah crusades against bst with about the same dedication that the catholic church crusaded against the manichean heresy for 17 centuries, but with less overall success.

Feed the mob tp is bullshit when the person is hitting as hard as everyone else. Oh, yeah essentially the ability to do a hate free ws by snarling the enmity on the expendable pet is nice. It is not as powerful by far but it is similar to what rangers can do with a fully upgraded relic weapon.

[Jezebell]

One thing we found bst useful for was Devlet(spelling?? the Imp that flees around) put a jug pet on him so when he flees off, the jug follows him and when it gets hate again the beastmaster can heel.

[Ahlah]

Wow what you have just said really remind me of ppl who usually post on Allakazham. Good luck to your Salvage adventure. BTW, do your salvage group a favour and stop sending your Lars to melee on unnerfed LBC.