All Worlds Maintenance (Mar. 10)

[Arkanna]

If that were true, then why is the WOG disc the same size as the TOA disc?

I'm not sure how to answer that question; it doesn't really have anything to do with that imo. I'm just using simple knowledge of the type of data that SE would need to send us in an update for new zones: If the texture data is not recycled, then we have image data to download, which would without a doubt increase the size of the download quite a bit ... but mob pop points, texture mappings, weather data, quest data, dialogue, etc would all be text data, and likely a fraction the size of any new texture data. So if they recycle the textures we've already got, that doesn't leave much aside from the text data we'd need to download.

I dunno, just trying to think logically about it, that's all. I also doubt they'll add new zones that aren't already in the .dats.

[LD]

You're really assuming an awful lot. It's hard not to see that everything in WOG is recycled down to the last pixel. Textures being kept on the client side is irrelevant, because it's obviously the architecture of the zone that takes up the bulk of the space, the incidental things like mob placement and textures only add to the entire package. Even if they did add new textures, I highly doubt it would take up the amount of space you're implying.

[Lordshin]

how big is.... say... the .dat for Rolanberry? or any zone really... i doubt SE will add new zones but i just wanna know if its remotely possible

[Shassira]

This thread is funny now. I see way too much speculation about how the game's files work.

SE's game architecture is very naive, it's not even close to the amount of complexity some of you are implying. Each DAT zone (as well as object/character DATs) contains textures and geometry data as well as other kinds of things like references to external files which are less relevant to the file size. Although WotG is a rehash of zones, this does not mean the files are actualy sharing instances of the same polygonal data or image date. They are independant packages regardless. It's the same for the "new equipment" they add which is rehashed and reskinned too. The game takes it as two different instances completely separated; just because it's the same polygonal data with a different texture applied, the game does not really do any kind of optimization to share such polygons and instead they are loaded as different instanced, just as if they were completely unrelated objects. This, ofcourse, is the reason you can DAT swap reskinned items without modifying the related others. (Ofcourse, some items do share the exact same DAT, like O.kotes and bandomusha, salvage 15/25/35 with the related low level items, etc).

An area DAT in this game looks around the size of 10-15 megabytes, give or take. This includes low resolution textures (the textures in this game are in a really low format) and geometry. It ofcourse will depend on the size of the zone and its design to define if image or polygon data is what's taking the big chunk of the file. You can expect a single triangle (raw, non compressed) to take around 50 bytes. Now, i'm not sure how many triangles a zone in FF would have, but i'm guessing it's not gonna get past a couple 100ks
An animation file will depend on the actual amount of animations and the frames stored obviously, but you can expect anything from a couple KBs to 3 or 4 megabytes.

Another thing to take into account is that the patching process does not seem to actualy patch anything but rather replace it. If they are adding, say, an animation to the player DATs they'll probably just send you the full DAT file instead of just the piece of extra information and then patching the current file in client side. I can't confirm this though, it just seems rather obvious the way it downloads them. Someone may have actualy taken the time to check this out, but not me~

[Uzor]

This thread is funny now. I see way too much speculation about how the game's files work.

SE's game architecture is very naive, it's not even close to the amount of complexity some of you are implying. Each DAT zone (as well as object/character DATs) contains textures and geometry data as well as other kinds of things like references to external files which are less relevant to the file size. Although WotG is a rehash of zones, this does not mean the files are actualy sharing instances of the same polygonal data or image date. They are independant packages regardless. It's the same for the "new equipment" they add which is rehashed and reskinned too. The game takes it as two different instances completely separated; just because it's the same polygonal data with a different texture applied, the game does not really do any kind of optimization to share such polygons and instead they are loaded as different instanced, just as if they were completely unrelated objects. This, ofcourse, is the reason you can DAT swap reskinned items without modifying the related others. (Ofcourse, some items do share the exact same DAT, like O.kotes and bandomusha, salvage 15/25/35 with the related low level items, etc).

An area DAT in this game looks around the size of 10-15 megabytes, give or take. This includes low resolution textures (the textures in this game are in a really low format) and geometry. It ofcourse will depend on the size of the zone and its design to define if image or polygon data is what's taking the big chunk of the file. You can expect a single triangle (raw, non compressed) to take around 50 bytes. Now, i'm not sure how many triangles a zone in FF would have, but i'm guessing it's not gonna get past a couple 100ks
An animation file will depend on the actual amount of animations and the frames stored obviously, but you can expect anything from a couple KBs to 3 or 4 megabytes.

Another thing to take into account is that the patching process does not seem to actualy patch anything but rather replace it. If they are adding, say, an animation to the player DATs they'll probably just send you the full DAT file instead of just the piece of extra information and then patching the current file in client side. I can't confirm this though, it just seems rather obvious the way it downloads them. Someone may have actualy taken the time to check this out, but not me~

As Shassira said, the area .dat's aren't as huge as it seem you people believe. The WoTG areas are 9275 kb up to 15183 kb in size. The armor file, as in the file containing all the armor that people look through to find new equipment every version update, is 15360 kb in size.

Technically, they would have no problem adding a zone if they wanted to, as they're really not that large.

[Lordender]

This monday shall be known as Emo Monday where dreams and hopes hang in the balance of razor's.

[LD]

Not simply that, but they have in the past, as has been said. They had to to make any kind of change, e.g. the chocobo circuit buildings (Which is what I thought in the first fucking place before I was convinced that the large size of that particular patch was mostly due to adding F/G to the auto-trans [or maybe /translate], despite my using an NA client and it being purely text in either case. ><;) That begs the question though, what DOES make up the bulk an expansion?

[Not Kuno]

Not simply that, but they have in the past, as has been said. They had to to make any kind of change, e.g. the chocobo circuit buildings (Which is what I thought in the first fucking place before I was convinced that the large size of that particular patch was mostly due to adding F/G to the auto-trans [or maybe /translate], despite my using an NA client and it being purely text in either case. >< That begs the question though, what DOES make up the bulk an expansion?

My guess would be the zones. Most everything else gets downloaded (mobs, spells, animations) and arn't too big.

[Uzor]

Of everything that's on the expansion disc, meaning no animations etc. that everyone needs and is thus downloaded through patches, 332 MB of it is zones, 173 MB being sounds and music, and the remaining 149 being various small stuff.

In said zone folder, there's 30 zones above the size of 6 MB, and 3 files with a size of roughly 1,5MB, that I assume are the mog houses for Windurst, Sandy and Jeuno. Otherwise I have no idea what's so small.

[LD]

heheheh, that means the only thing I was wrong about was the individual size. The logic and data proportions were all dead on. %D
Yea, I'm petty. I don't give a fuck.


I'm happy it takes so little space, since it means we may get present versions of the past-only zones without needing a new expansion disc, however I can't help but think I'm forgetting something that stops this from happening (besides SE's sloth, that is.)

[Arkanna]

heheheh, that means the only thing I was wrong about was the individual size. The logic and data proportions were all dead on. %D
Yea, I'm petty. I don't give a fuck.


I'm happy it takes so little space, since it means we may get present versions of the past-only zones without needing a new expansion disc, however I can't help but think I'm forgetting something that stops this from happening (besides SE's sloth, that is.)

We're both assuming a lot :D but I'm no .dat miner so it's good to hear from others that the sizes of zones aren't too big to add to a download. Here's to hoping we see an old Tav or old Jeuno added.

[Kit]

about 30 areas?

Current WotG areas that are released = 18

+ 1 more zone for 3 cities = 21
+ jeuno, prolly 4 = 25
+ 3 beastmen forts = 28
+ 3 beastmen strongholds = 31
+ walk of echo = 32
+ castle zv/keep zv/glacier/xacarbard = 36

That's pretty much it.

No, there's no Jeuno, there's no additional zones in the cities, there's no "Beastmen forts".

There are 30 zones in all (32 but 2 seem to be debugging related, or at least unused), of which 21 are currently available.
The expectation is that this update will add 3 more (Oztroja Castle, Beadeaux and La Vaule)
The remaining 6 will be added at a later time (Beaucedine Glacier [S], Castle Zvahl Baileys [S], Castle Zvahl Keep [S], Throne Room [S], Walk of Echoes, Xarcabard [S])

[LD]

Yea, but at least I was accurate.

Odds are still pretty good we're getting nothing in the way of zones.

[Sonomaa]

the wotg disk was about 350-400 megs, the toau disk was about 800 megs (it came on a DVD remember)

they were not the same size at all

[LinktheDeme]

the wotg disk was about 350-400 megs, the toau disk was about 800 megs (it came on a DVD remember)

they were not the same size at all

Thanks i was waiting for someone to say that and shut him up but I couldn't find the post that had the file sizes QQ

[Spira]

about 30 areas?

Current WotG areas that are released = 18

+ 1 more zone for 3 cities = 21
+ jeuno, prolly 4 = 25
+ 3 beastmen forts = 28
+ 3 beastmen strongholds = 31
+ walk of echo = 32
+ castle zv/keep zv/glacier/xacarbard = 36

That's pretty much it.

No, there's no Jeuno, there's no additional zones in the cities, there's no "Beastmen forts".

There are 30 zones in all (32 but 2 seem to be debugging related, or at least unused), of which 21 are currently available.
The expectation is that this update will add 3 more (Oztroja Castle, Beadeaux and La Vaule)
The remaining 6 will be added at a later time (Beaucedine Glacier [S], Castle Zvahl Baileys [S], Castle Zvahl Keep [S], Throne Room [S], Walk of Echoes, Xarcabard [S])

total zone count seems kinda wrong...?

Current zones:

Sandy Front
[S] versions of Jugner, Batallia, E Ronfaure, Vunkerl, Eldieme, S Sandoria = 6

Windy Front
[S] versions of Sauromugue, Meriphataud, Fort-KN, West Saruta, Garlaige, Win Waters = 6

Bastok Front
[S] versions of Rolanberry, Pashhow, Grauberg, N Gusta, Crawlers Nest, Bastok Market = 6

then theres the 3 Campaign Ops zones:
Ghoyu's Reverie, Ruzotz Silvermines and Everbloom Hollow = 3

thats all that has been released thus far... = 21

The remaining zones I've seen...

La Vaule [S]
Beadeaux [S]
Castle Oztroja [S]
Beaucedine [S]
Xarcabard [S]
Throne Room [S]
Castle Zvahl zones
Walk of Echoes

I dont know if the moghouses count as separate zones, but for certain there will be no Jeuno or Tavnazia based on existing dats.. thats already more than 32..

also, there are more 'areas' than the files seem to suggest. For example, the 3 beastmen fort zones (La Vaule, Bead, Castle O) all contain cropped off and about 4 repeated sections of the map (for Castle O and Beadeaux, its the G3 area where the Beastmen King would pop in present time). This would mean they're to be used as instanced areas... For La Vaule, its a part of the Davoi map that is cut off.. There will be no Monastic Cavern...

This might somewhat account for the lack of BC zones compared to previous expansions...

Walk of Echoes, probably the tulia/lumoria/alzadaal of WotG, with unique terrain gfx set and requires mission access to reach, also seems to have this. The area is pretty huge, but mostly disjointed so there will probably be warping involved. At the center of the zone is a circular throne room of sorts, almost like the Sepulcher's design but more castle-like..
Strangely enough, this part of the zone doesn't feature any repeat sections across the .dat (or maybe I didn't search hard enough)... but the Atomos thing (or so its called) at the top in the sky is repeated a convenient 4 times. It might simply be because they want you to be able to see "Atomos" no matter what part of the zone you are in, or that whatever lies above it can be used as a BC area.

[Vejitta]

Isn't Walk of Echoes the place where you meet Cait Sith? Or is it call differently? I can't remember at the moment any info poping up while 'zoning' to this place.

I just hope SE will input some new way of obtaining Khroma Ores in this update...

[Kaylia]

Isn't Walk of Echoes the place where you meet Cait Sith? Or is it call differently? I can't remember at the moment any info poping up while 'zoning' to this place.

I just hope SE will input some new way of obtaining Khroma Ores in this update...

It was. I never say zoning info when it's just loaded for a cutscene because you're not physically leaving the area. It's more like a dat swap if you want


And yes, 0ores 7 hours in zhayolm...need a better way.

[Spira]

yes i believe that is Walk of Echoes.. but you weren't actually in the zone. its just a cutscene.. just like in CoP you get to preview Al'Taieu from chapter 1 whilst u are actually in Jeuno...

in any case.. the thing that i found more funny was the soccer pitch in Fort Karugo-Narugo...
I sense more useless side events that will become obselete...

[ronin sparthos]

FFXI Soccer... the Blitzball of XI.