Haste Cap

[Howard Roark]

my haste cap

By far, the most relevant post in this thread.
I mean really, "Haste Cap"! im surprised i didnt see this sooner.

rofl, no idea why it took 10 pages for someone to bring in some sweet sweet jackassery

anyway carry on with the

[Valacar]

It wasn't just Rune Chopper that made zerging 'broken'. With capped magic haste (anybody can easily achieve this) as well as haste samba (if this is 5%?), hasso, and desperate blows, DRKs coasted to a wildly easy-to-attain 73.3% without gear. Simply acquiring turban and swift belt puts you over 80%. Start adding in homam/dusk and the numbers get worse.

I don't think people with krakens, ridills, etc. are trying to perpetuate game stagnation and e-peen results by thinking that *any* DRK wielding *any* 2hander could zerg with game-breaking efficiency. The RC added insult to injury, sure, but the lack of a haste cap was a bit crazy (which became exploited as DRK tier 2 merits, hasso, and now haste samba were gradually implemented).

Apocalypse shouldn't really enter this conversation. The relic is far and away one of the top 2 melee relics (arguably the best) without even considering zerg capabilities.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I'm just wondering, why would you think that Apoc is better than Amano and Mandau? Let alone the RNG relics which I know next to nothing about

[Chupunpupun]

I honestly believe the only reason why they put a cap on haste was because of the Rune Chopper. Rune Chopper was putting up crazy numbers for being a very cheap and common weapon that everyone and their grandma had access to. SE wants to keep zergs "limited" to the more rarer weapons. There is a reason why Krakenclubs are rare and worth the gil they are worth, it would be so unbalanced if Krakens were a common weapon that it would of forced SE to go further adjusting drk's.

You also need to take into account that the average player will find Bahamut Zaghnal's a whole lot harder to get than a Rune Chopper was so I don't think a BZ had anything to do with imposing a hastecap.

so why not just change the rune chopper ;( why touch the haste cap

Stop fucking whining, it was always broken from the start.
Why the fuck would SE put cap on recast time but not attack speed...
should have been a cap placed on attack speed from haste in the beginning.

Sounds like the relic h2h exploit, muti-hit ws nerf argument all over again.

[Valacar]

I'm just wondering, why would you think that Apoc is better than Amano and Mandau? Let alone the RNG relics which I know next to nothing about

RNG relics are good too, actually. I probably would consider Apoc, Amano, and the RNG relics as the top melee. I'm not really sure why people think Mandau is anything but mediocre though (except on Colibri, which people shouldn't worry so much about).

From a more personal perspective, the additional effect of haste after WS is pretty solid. It will more than likely cap out your gear haste for the duration of effect (which depends on TP). To really take full advantage of it, you need windower macros to swap gear on timed intervals (30secs, primarily) but even without that, haste is much better than most additional effects. Something that doesn't really equate to extra damage, but adds an incredible amount to survivability is the HP drain after Catastrophe. Anywhere from 50-600HP (maybe more, but it's hard to tell since the number isn't recorded and I'm usually not paying super close attention) every 100TP is very significant. If you think how often a DRK can WS, it adds up. In every aspect of melee DD, this has saved my life more times than I can count. Even in ideal circumstances, many support mages have commented on the ease of which they can sustain me through drained HP.

Amano really brings out the best in SAM (light SCs), and enmity-less WSs are priceless. It's really hard to quantify the best overall, but in specific situations each weapon certainly has merit to win the argument.

[Karbuncle]

[quote=Howard Roark]

my haste cap

By far, the most relevant post in this thread.
I mean really, "Haste Cap"! im surprised i didnt see this sooner.

rofl, no idea why it took 10 pages for someone to bring in some sweet sweet jackassery

anyway carry on with the [/quotekzmh765]

Lulz I meant it in a good way. I guess i should have worded it better?
I seriously meant it was the BEST post, i laughed hard at it.


Now whos the jerk


Edit: I thought it was a good idea to put a hamster in here to fully expose the Sincerety and niceness of this post. and it is in no way sarcast.

[Quizno]

Did I summarize the last four or so pages up accurately?

Considering the discussion it has spawned, I would say "no".

[Starr]

I'm not really sure why people think Mandau is anything but mediocre

http://skugg.files.wordpress.com/200...n-of-worms.jpg

[Genosync]

Yeah, good luck with that Mandau comment, and good luck trying to teach the thieves otherwise now that they have their new JA to make them even more useful (unless the 1min timer I heard about on it is wrong).

[dawdr]

'Tis one minute indeed, Geno, and 'tis glorious.

RNG relics are good too, actually. I probably would consider Apoc, Amano, and the RNG relics as the top melee. I'm not really sure why people think Mandau is anything but mediocre though (except on Colibri, which people shouldn't worry so much about).

Lawdy lawd, you're one of those who think Thieves can't do good damage and can only hold their ground on piercing-weak mobs, aren't you? Amazing.

[Stolin]

'Tis one minute indeed, Geno, and 'tis glorious.

RNG relics are good too, actually. I probably would consider Apoc, Amano, and the RNG relics as the top melee. I'm not really sure why people think Mandau is anything but mediocre though (except on Colibri, which people shouldn't worry so much about).

Lawdy lawd, you're one of those who think Thieves can't do good damage and can only hold their ground on piercing-weak mobs, aren't you? Amazing.

A mandau THF is only mediocre when compared to the heavy hitters. Its amazing when compared to non-mandau THFs.

[Lordwafik]

I'm just wondering, why would you think that Apoc is better than Amano and Mandau? Let alone the RNG relics which I know next to nothing about

RNG relics are good too, actually. I probably would consider Apoc, Amano, and the RNG relics as the top melee. I'm not really sure why people think Mandau is anything but mediocre though (except on Colibri, which people shouldn't worry so much about).

This man speaks the truth, every day I see that golden farce of a dagger in my inventory I close my eyes in disbelief that I could have brought such shame to myself and the whole thief community.
A tear runs down the side of my cheek when I stop and think - Why didn't I instead choose the Excalibur? I wipe my tear and continue to Mercy Stroke, as this is the path of destiny that I must follow.


Oh and also, cocks.

[Guitarman]

http://home.student.uu.se/hape2405/a...m_detector.jpg

[Amok]

This man speaks the truth, every day I see that golden farce of a dagger in my inventory I close my eyes in disbelief that I could have brought such shame to myself and the whole thief community.
A tear runs down the side of my cheek when I stop and think - Why didn't I instead choose the Excalibur? I wipe my tear and continue to Mercy Stroke, as this is the path of destiny that I must follow.


Oh and also, cocks.

God, I know I should probably remain lurking, but: is this sarcasm or do you really regret getting mandau?

[NozE8]

That there would be sarcasm.

[Lordwafik]

This man speaks the truth, every day I see that golden farce of a dagger in my inventory I close my eyes in disbelief that I could have brought such shame to myself and the whole thief community.
A tear runs down the side of my cheek when I stop and think - Why didn't I instead choose the Excalibur? I wipe my tear and continue to Mercy Stroke, as this is the path of destiny that I must follow.


Oh and also, cocks.

God, I know I should probably remain lurking, but: is this sarcasm or do you really regret getting mandau?

:\

I even said cocks.

[Koyangi]

The word Excalibur alone made that 1 obvious.

[Valacar]

Maybe Mandau is better than I gave it credit for. I certainly didn't mean mediocre to have the negative connotation that people garnered from that statement. The other 3-4 I mentioned bring those jobs to another caliber of gameplay, I think. While Mandau is certainly the best dagger, and I've been around a few to know that it elevates them above and beyond other THFs, I just don't think it fundamentally changes their capability the way Amano, Apoc, and the RNG relics change things for their respective jobs. So while Mandau is certainly better than some of the other relics, I still couldn't imagine considering it to be competing for top melee relic.

Do other people consider Mandau to be at the top of the list? I see Spharai and Gungnir take a lot of heat while Amano and Apoc are praised, so where does that put Mandau? In my eyes that puts it in the middle of the pack....an 'average' relic....even though it's a great dagger. That's a serious question btw, not sarcasm.

To each their own.

[Kirschy]

I don't realli see how Apoc changes a DRK's caliber of play. It's the best weapon for the job in most situations, and performs very well. But to say Apoc fundementalli changes the way you play DRK, seems silly though.

[Valacar]

I don't realli see how Apoc changes a DRK's caliber of play. It's the best weapon for the job in most situations, and performs very well. But to say Apoc fundementalli changes the way you play DRK, seems silly though.

Perhaps you're right. I guess in my eyes the haste and HP drain is enough to change what a DRK can do compared to other DRKs (not simply creating more DD) to warrant it being near the top of the list. I personally really do find it to change the way I played DRK entirely when I got it. I was actually more pleasantly surprised than I thought I would be.

But again, I'm not saying anything crazy or out-of-this-world or trying to take a stab at Mandau. I personally just put a few other relics ahead of it but didn't mean to imply it's a joke or anything.