Haste Cap

[Maxxthepenguin]

Mercy Stroke is a STR60% modded WS on the only job that can truly exploit 1 hit WSes that increases crit rate on a job that can really use it.

I'd say mandau is pretty damned hot.

[Demosthenes11]

Mercy Stroke is a STR60% modded WS on the only job that can truly exploit 1 hit WSes that increases crit rate on a job that can really use it.

I'd say mandau is pretty damned hot.

talking about rdm of course

[Genosync]

Mercy Stroke is a STR60% modded WS on the only job that can truly exploit 1 hit WSes that increases crit rate on a job that can really use it.

I'd say mandau is pretty damned hot.

talking about rdm of course

Yeah, I thought he got it for his Red Mage too.

Or, hey, maybe he could use it on Bard and actually do some damage while he was singing too. He's a real melee Bard, you know.








On a non-sarcastic note, I actually did that once. Moral of the story: Piercing weak mob, it's mediocre, non-piercing weak, go home.

And on Mandau, and Thief in general, it takes a long time and a lot of work for a Thief to understand exactly how to maximize their damage output and usefulness..... and this is why the common opinion is "don't bring thieves anywhere but to colibri" and crap like that. Sure, they murder Colibri (I did like a 1700dancing edge /war at 74 with only SA, and a 1400 with nothing, and my thief wasn't that amazing) but I've seen Mandaus outparse idiot Ridill WARs with ease at about every merit camp we've ever used.

Keep in mind too that there are a couple idiots with Mandaus, that might screw up your opinion of the weapon in general. Just like there are a bunch of idiots that have relics in general, screwing up people's personal opinions of each of them.

[Seditedi]

Too many idiot WARs have Ridills. THFs that use them also make baby jesus cry.

[Seditedi]

I don't realli see how Apoc changes a DRK's caliber of play. It's the best weapon for the job in most situations, and performs very well. But to say Apoc fundementalli changes the way you play DRK, seems silly though.

Perhaps you're right. I guess in my eyes the haste and HP drain is enough to change what a DRK can do compared to other DRKs (not simply creating more DD) to warrant it being near the top of the list. I personally really do find it to change the way I played DRK entirely when I got it. I was actually more pleasantly surprised than I thought I would be.

But again, I'm not saying anything crazy or out-of-this-world or trying to take a stab at Mandau. I personally just put a few other relics ahead of it but didn't mean to imply it's a joke or anything.

Mandau is a much better relic compared to Apocalypse imo.
It really increases the potential of THF to levels that it couldn't even come close to without it.
Apocalypse is still a good relic, but Mandau wins by a large margin imo.

[Maxxthepenguin]

IMO Apoc helps DRK less than Mandau helps THF but DRK was already ahead, so Apoc DRK > Mandau THF.

[Kirschy]

Pretti much agreeing /w Maxx and Seditedi. I think Mandau does more for a Thief than an Apoc does for a DRK.

THF and DRK are just different jobs and have different roles in most situations, so comparing them (and their relics) is difficult unless you get into specifics. What is easy to agree on, is that both relics are the best weapons for their respective jobs.

[Darus Grey]

By this train of logic Mjollnir is one of the better relics.

[AkashiXI]

By this train of logic Mjollnir is one of the better relics.

Well, kind of. In all seriousness, Mjollnir is a decent relic (comparing to the other club choices WHMs have), but after accounting how we (the community) perceive whm DD, it does seem like a waste. One can argue it's wasted currency, but if you worked hard for the money and didn't RMT/steal/LS bank it, then who cares?

[Kirschy]

All we're talking about is what a relic does for the job. Like I said earlier, different jobs play different roles in different situations. A WHM rarely finds themselves in a melee situation, so the relic doesn't do as much for the job. Compare this to a DRK which will often find themsevles in situations to gain benefits from scythe or with a thief, dagger.

Anyone is welcome to play their job how they like. There's enough in the Relic thread about DD WHM and DD BLM/SMN. My comments were mostly geared toward what a Relic Scythe does for a DRK compared to what a Relic Dagger does for a Thief. I believe both Scythe and Dagger do more for their respective jobs than club does for a WHM. That being said, it's easy for anyone to agree that Relic Club is the best weapon for a DD WHM.

[Izzy]

By this train of logic Mjollnir is one of the better relics.

Well, kind of. In all seriousness, Mjollnir is a decent relic (comparing to the other club choices WHMs have), but after accounting how we (the community) perceive whm DD, it does seem like a waste. One can argue it's wasted currency, but if you worked hard for the money and didn't RMT/steal/LS bank it, then who cares?

Fuck yea!

What Mjollnir does for the job is amazing. The job that can use it is Q_Q though. And I agree that what a Mandau does for a THF > what an Apoc does for a DRK.

[Maxxthepenguin]

By this train of logic Mjollnir is one of the better relics.

Nowhere in that train of thought is the qualification of how good a relic is. Just a certain statistic.

I should add a disclaimer to make sure my information isn't used to convince people to upgrade mjollnir.

[Sekkite]

Colibris aside, how do the two relics compare?

[chapstick]

I don't know how you can compare two weapons for two different jobs, who do different things. They are both pretty much the best weapon for their job.

[Seditedi]

Colibris aside, how do the two relics compare?

Mandau kicking ass has nothing to do with Colibri lol.
Seen parses on like Fafnir and Cerberus (even though Cerb isn't that accurate of a parse due to Magma Hoplon) where Mandau THF came out on top.

[Lordender]

I don't see how it matters, both are great relic's for their job. Apoc isn't great because it does omg bbq damage, its great because of haste and the ability to selfcure from the ws allowing souleater use to be a non-issue especially with all the fucking emo mages out there that cut themselves when a drk uses souleater.

Mandau pwns just because mercy stroke is 1hit and has 60% str mod making it a very deadly weaponskill.

[Genosync]

Damn, and Mercy Stroke is such a perfect name for that thing. Seriously.

[Lordwafik]

Mandau's omgosh feature is the WS itself. Allows you to do very high damage by double dipping into STR.

Another thing mandau has going for it is if your LS still uses thief to TA tanks, TA'ing mercy stroke is huuuuuuuuuge hate, especially if the thief isn't a shitbox. I haven't fought fafnir nor any king at all since getting it really, but for everything else I do, mandau surely speeds up kills, especially when I do darkness and it mirrors, practically 1 shotting things.

Mercy is still garbage for straight WS'ing without stacking JAs, DE/Evi beat it, but for SA/TA it's highly damaging.

Post accomplice it's great for trying to quickly distribute hate between 2 people if you're low manning things. Start fight with TP, TA+Mercy the other person, accomplice. Then you both have a significant amount of hate more than anyone in the group and people don't have to be so fragile about hate building at the start.

[Vail]

Mercy is still garbage for straight WS'ing without stacking JAs, DE/Evi beat it, but for SA/TA it's highly damaging.

probably because SA or TA add like 100-120 base damage to the attack, and crits it (+1.0 pdif) (AGL and TA will be less than that 100, but you get the idea) with a 3.0 fTP modifier? I can't remember exactly. 100% accuracy with SA or TA, so you can just pile on the damage stats to boot~

basicly sounds like it takes all the best modifiers in the exact right spots to turn that damage up as possible. Is what it sounds like to me.

[Genosync]

Mercy is still garbage for straight WS'ing without stacking JAs, DE/Evi beat it, but for SA/TA it's highly damaging.

probably because SA or TA add like 100-120 base damage to the attack, and crits it (+1.0 pdif) (AGL and TA will be less than that 100, but you get the idea) with a 3.0 fTP modifier? I can't remember exactly. 100% accuracy with SA or TA, so you can just pile on the damage stats to boot~

basicly sounds like it takes all the best modifiers in the exact right spots to turn that damage up as possible. Is what it sounds like to me.

yeah's that kinda exactly what wafik and just about everyone that's not a moron on these forums already knows, congratulations