Scholar Discussion #3 (post March patch)

[Miltani]

Bleh need to keep HP gear on for full duration of Sublimation for it to work ;; that sucks ><

Sublimation with no hp gear 280mp

HP Gear > Sublimation > Switch Gear off > 280mp

HP Gear > Sublimation > Keep Gear on > 298mp

OK Hmmm I am confused. Just did ENM and did Sublimation with HP gear before it then switching it off to regular gear and when i got my mp back it was 298 >.> So why didn't it work earlier.... Maybe Dragon's Aery lag on gear swap i guess <.< Or a glitch

do you mean that you need to equip in hp gear when you want to click off sublimation?

I haven't been paying much attention, but did you activate Sublimation when you were at full HP or not? I got some weird numbers when I was playing around with it while getting some quest item and attributed it to not being at full HP (IE: based on HP when using Sublimation, not max HP).

Ok I got about testing it

I've tested a few possibilities and the following are the results:
Keep hp gear full time during the duration of sublimation increase the mp return.
Removing hp gear anytime during it will revert the mp return to current max hp.
Adding hp gear before sublimation, removing it upon activation and adding back hp gear when deactivating sublimation does not increase the mp return.
Sublimation is based on max hp and not current hp.

That's about it. So in order to maximize max mp return one will have to keep full hp gear on which i don't think is feasible unless you're resting or something.

[Tidane]

I've tested a few possibilities and the following are the results:
Keep hp gear full time during the duration of sublimation increase the mp return.
Removing hp gear anytime during it will revert the mp return to current max hp.
Adding hp gear before sublimation, removing it upon activation and adding back hp gear when deactivating sublimation does not increase the mp return.
Sublimation is based on max hp and not current hp.

That's about it. So in order to maximize max mp return one will have to keep full hp gear on which i don't think is feasible unless you're resting or something.

That would explain it. I wasn't using any gear swaps at the time, but I would manually switch pieces out while charging Sublimation. Didn't think it would matter once the ability was already activated.

[Lordwafik]

Hurm, I'll test this more later as I have salvage soon, but my sublimination filled up instantly today after eating a banishga3 in campaign. Could taking damage fill sublimination up faster? I died right after so I couldnt tell if it was gonna give me all the required MP back.

[neogeo]

Rafflesia dreamspit G-5
Firesday, Clear weather
With the Jumbo Rafflesia on the hill, I've not seen anyone post this POS yet, But its the spot i just got it.

[Tsukuyomi]

Hurm, I'll test this more later as I have salvage soon, but my sublimination filled up instantly today after eating a banishga3 in campaign. Could taking damage fill sublimination up faster? I died right after so I couldnt tell if it was gonna give me all the required MP back.

It might also be that it filled up cause your hp was low (if it was low ^^; ) I tried using sublimination once while I had really low hp and no mp to cure myself, it filled up really fast, I tried using it and it gave me back... 9 mp >_>;
The update notes did mention that the effect would stop when HP is too low I think... I can't log to test atm

[TeancumMemsochet]

Bleh need to keep HP gear on for full duration of Sublimation for it to work ;; that sucks ><

Sublimation with no hp gear 280mp

HP Gear > Sublimation > Switch Gear off > 280mp

HP Gear > Sublimation > Keep Gear on > 298mp

OK Hmmm I am confused. Just did ENM and did Sublimation with HP gear before it then switching it off to regular gear and when i got my mp back it was 298 >.> So why didn't it work earlier.... Maybe Dragon's Aery lag on gear swap i guess <.< Or a glitch

do you mean that you need to equip in hp gear when you want to click off sublimation?

I haven't been paying much attention, but did you activate Sublimation when you were at full HP or not? I got some weird numbers when I was playing around with it while getting some quest item and attributed it to not being at full HP (IE: based on HP when using Sublimation, not max HP).

Ok I got about testing it

I've tested a few possibilities and the following are the results:
Keep hp gear full time during the duration of sublimation increase the mp return.
Removing hp gear anytime during it will revert the mp return to current max hp.
Adding hp gear before sublimation, removing it upon activation and adding back hp gear when deactivating sublimation does not increase the mp return.
Sublimation is based on max hp and not current hp.

That's about it. So in order to maximize max mp return one will have to keep full hp gear on which i don't think is feasible unless you're resting or something.

Did you test to see if low current HP has any effect on duration of the DoT? B/c I believe when I was using it after just after being weak(so my HP was red/orange but max HP was just under 1100), the DoT only lasted a few sec, and I got like 8mp back. If that is true, then the Functionality of sublimination would look to see what you current HP% is, and what % the MP pool is in relation to the minimum Max HP while the DoT is in effect. If either of the %'s are outside a set range, then the DoT stops, and you only get the MP gathered up until that point.

[Muffins]

AOE Sleep II not working is most likely a glitch.

I had 2 mobs I wanted to sleep so I did manifestation sleep2 and it didn't work (only 1 slept). I then did sleep 1 on the mob that didn't sleep but then that spell turned aoe. I didn't understand what had happened... but if it's a bug then it makes alot more sense.

If you use a charge and cast a spell that is not eligible, the charge will NOT be consumed. What you witnessed was Sleep 2 not being eligible, so Manifestation was not consumed.

Hurm, I'll test this more later as I have salvage soon, but my sublimination filled up instantly today after eating a banishga3 in campaign. Could taking damage fill sublimination up faster? I died right after so I couldnt tell if it was gonna give me all the required MP back.

I think the way Sublimation works is that it calculates (current max hp * 0.75) - current hp = sublimated hp limit. Then it does current max hp * 0.25 = max amount drained. The sublimated hp value is stored as a "Don't go below this amount" value. If it does, the process ends and you receive your charge for the amount of time it lasted.

To elaborate on this, I was in Salvage tonight as WHM/SCH. Once I had the necessary cells to use Sublimation, the effect cancelled immediately and I have a charge worth 2mp. What basically happened was it calculated 800 * 0.75 = 600, but my hp was half my max, stopped the drain, and giving me the complementary 1 tick.

Edited to reflect some personal observations.

[Miltani]

[quote=TeancumMemsochet]

Bleh need to keep HP gear on for full duration of Sublimation for it to work ;; that sucks ><

Sublimation with no hp gear 280mp

HP Gear > Sublimation > Switch Gear off > 280mp

HP Gear > Sublimation > Keep Gear on > 298mp

OK Hmmm I am confused. Just did ENM and did Sublimation with HP gear before it then switching it off to regular gear and when i got my mp back it was 298 >.> So why didn't it work earlier.... Maybe Dragon's Aery lag on gear swap i guess <.< Or a glitch

do you mean that you need to equip in hp gear when you want to click off sublimation?

I haven't been paying much attention, but did you activate Sublimation when you were at full HP or not? I got some weird numbers when I was playing around with it while getting some quest item and attributed it to not being at full HP (IE: based on HP when using Sublimation, not max HP).

Ok I got about testing it

I've tested a few possibilities and the following are the results:
Keep hp gear full time during the duration of sublimation increase the mp return.
Removing hp gear anytime during it will revert the mp return to current max hp.
Adding hp gear before sublimation, removing it upon activation and adding back hp gear when deactivating sublimation does not increase the mp return.
Sublimation is based on max hp and not current hp.

That's about it. So in order to maximize max mp return one will have to keep full hp gear on which i don't think is feasible unless you're resting or something.

Did you test to see if low current HP has any effect on duration of the DoT? B/c I believe when I was using it after just after being weak(so my HP was red/orange but max HP was just under 1100), the DoT only lasted a few sec, and I got like 8mp back. If that is true, then the Functionality of sublimination would look to see what you current HP% is, and what % the MP pool is in relation to the minimum Max HP while the DoT is in effect. If either of the %'s are outside a set range, then the DoT stops, and you only get the MP gathered up until that point.[/quote:2n1zx79f]
I tried this before, Full HP 1019> Sublimation > Returns 254 mp and hp is reduced till 766 or so
Then i sublimation again with the 766 hp left and it still returns me 254 mp at the end. I think the duration of sublimation was reduced because you do not have enough hp to be reduced.

I think i'll go about trying it out again just before limbus in a few hours time. I'm going to try getting myself down till 100 hp from 1019 and then activate sublimation afterwards cure myself and wait for the reduction in hp to stop. Then sublimate my mp back and see whether i still get back 254mp.

I'll try out whether taking damage hasten the time to get the ticks done too

[LD]

I guess I should have been more direct with my question, people focused too much on the Klimaform part of it...
Do Helixes still suck? -_-

[XxSlusherxx]

Also, nothing about Helices as far as damage seems to have changed.

[kenshyn]

Well with kilaform + weather spell+ helix of same element as weather how is the resist rate against IT mobs or HNM????

[LD]

Also, nothing about Helices as far as damage seems to have changed.

The damage was never the problem, smart ass, it was always the resist rate.

[Aemora]

I know that it's nothing fantastically awesome, but as a joke I took Sch68 to Behemoth yesterday after maint.

Helix spells went 100% unresisted with Klimaform and Weather, but again, Behemoth isn't KING Behemoth... Then again, it isn't Cerberus or Khimaira where these HNMs have naturally high resist rates to magic cast on them.

Also, it may not be as awesome as Sch main, but our Whm subbed /Sch last night in Salvage. As Sublimation works on your overall max HP and stop working once you reached a certain HP level to safeguard the user from killing him/herself, Sublimation only lasted 2 ticks, then "stored" the MP gained. This means that without HP unlock in Salvage, Sublimation will do jack shit for you. Pretty much how a Sorc.Ring will work in Salvage with 100% HP without HP unlocked.

Aaaaaaaaaaand, yesterday I had this as I ran up to Campaign...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t.../aaaaaaaaa.jpg

Glitch'd.

[Alibeemac]

I am very confused as to how Sublimation is working

Went SCH last night in Dynamis-Valk. I didn't change any macros at all during the run. Always equipped hp gear then used Sublimation then unequipped hp gear as its part of my standard macro I am using atm to test it. Casted other stuff as normal while it charged then equipped HP gear and used Sublimation again when it was full charged. I always made sure I was low on mp when using it to ensure maximum mp back to test results (ie less than 300mp left). It is very weird... The results were so varied yet no conditions were different in macros/gear/subs etc. It was 280, 281, 282mp back for most of the run but once or twice I got 298. 282 is the max mp back SCH/RDM with no hp gear equipped. 298 is my mp back with it equipped. Something definately seems inconsistent. I shouldn't be varying between 280, 281, 282 constantly and it seems like occassionally something triggered it to work on my hp gear but idk what. Not once did I keep hp gear on for the whole duration of Sublimation.

On another note, Thunder 4 for 1274 dmg on Nightmare Sheep and 1080ish Blizz 4 on the MB (was earth day so didn't use thunder >< ). Need to play about with some gear changes but I was quite happy with some of the nukes I was getting considering I was using full skill gear and lacking some int/MAB cause of it. Used Manifestation Klimaform on the BLM pt for MB along with Icestorm on everyone and of course someone nukes Burst 2 >.> I am also loving the new 4 charges at 1min recharge time. I hardly ever run out of charges and was loving the crowd control aspect last night. Aoe Grav then Aoe Bind on the mobs after the BLMs sleepga 2 them. I can't wait to try this now in Einherjar on Sat with the extra charges and nukes.

SCH is so fun atm <3

[Miltani]

Tested the following:
Getting hp down to 100 (Max hp 1079) uses sublimation > no drop in hp > sublimation back> gained 2mp
Uses sublimation > use convert to reduce hp to 300 (this has the same effect as getting hit by mobs and stopping sublimation effect) > notice no drop in hp > sublimation back > gained 6mp

I believe Muffins prediction is correct

I think the way Sublimation works is that it calculates (current max hp * 0.75) - current hp = sublimated hp limit. Then it does current max hp * 0.25 = max amount drained. The sublimated hp value is stored as a "Don't go below this amount" value. If it does, the process ends and you receive your charge for the amount of time it lasted.

To elaborate on this, I was in Salvage tonight as WHM/SCH. Once I had the necessary cells to use Sublimation, the effect cancelled immediately and I have a charge worth 2mp. What basically happened was it calculated 800 * 0.75 = 600, but my hp was half my max, stopped the drain, and giving me the complementary 1 tick.

[Muffins]

The calculation is far from exact, but the principle remains. There is some "safety" value the game checks to see if you're above in order to continue Sublimating. I was soloing some Qiqirn Rngs earlier, and when I Sublimated at full health, in the course of taking damage during the fight, my HP dropped to orange levels and the MP got stored. My max hp is around 750 and the effect stopped at around 300-330, every time. So maybe we can narrow that part down.

As far as knowing how to maximize returns like Ali's been trying, I haven't started that yet. :3

PS: Sublimate is a fun word to say. Sublimate.

[Gilthas]

Maybe SCHs can't AoE Sleep II just because SE doesn't want them to have Sleepga II at their disposal. Might not be a glitch.

They let you use Sleepga since its available from subbing BLM anyway.

EDIT: Didn't notice that someone posted you couldn't AoE any of the Addendum spells. This is what you get for reeading topics backwards...

[Miltani]

I think there's a safety check for sublimation because after recovery from being weakened, sublimation doesn't allow my hp to drop at all even though the hp at that time is way above my 25% max hp

My damage at pudding camp doesn't seem to shabby too.

T4 1113
B4 1130

with normal gear and 70+44 int along with 12% m.atk coming from moldy, yigit body and feet. I'm sure others with better Eq will do more dmg than me. Sch might get a chance to have a slot in manaburn pudding pt now

[Lilswitche]

Do you guys think that it's safe to assume that since:

You can Thunderstorm+Rairin Obi for the bonus that,
if you Thunderstorm+Klimaform, that you would then get the added Magic accuracy onto your Thunder spells?

Just speculating being that Klimaform seems like a hard thing to test accurately, within reason.

[Sho]

Do you guys think that it's safe to assume that since:

You can Thunderstorm+Rairin Obi for the bonus that,
if you Thunderstorm+Klimaform, that you would then get the added Magic accuracy onto your Thunder spells?

Just speculating being that Klimaform seems like a hard thing to test accurately, within reason.

Yup, doing that right now @ 71, and getting fully unresisted Thunder IIIs at Wamoura camp.