Scholar Discussion #3 (post March patch)

[Gilthas]

Whms should be more pissed that Sch's actually out-perform them now, with Paralynaga, and Erasaga... But no. Whm's are infact happy that they no longer have the burden of keeping people deattributed themselves.

Eh, from my personal experience and from what I've seen other WHMs talk about, we're not happy at all that SCHs can use na spells much more efficiently than us when most WHMs have been asking for Divine Veil to be put on a decent timer for forever.

[Lordwafik]

In a duo situation, I've been doing this :

[...] I've been doing Accession Thunderstorm (Charge 1)

Just like to point out that that is a waste of a charge. If indeed you are duo'in, you may as well cast Thunderstorm twice, as it costs the same MP and saves you a charge~

I have a twitchy finger and I get annoyed looking at that 15~ second recast >: I know it's technically the same amount of time as popping Light/Accession etc etc, but meh!

[Reapz]

Stop being a noob sch wafik omg

[TeancumMemsochet]

Whms should be more pissed that Sch's actually out-perform them now, with Paralynaga, and Erasaga... But no. Whm's are infact happy that they no longer have the burden of keeping people deattributed themselves.

Eh, from my personal experience and from what I've seen other WHMs talk about, we're not happy at all that SCHs can use na spells much more efficiently than us when most WHMs have been asking for Divine Veil to be put on a decent timer for forever.

That's one of the reasons I've all but retired my WHM in favor of SCH. The only thing people need that WHM has that SCH doesn't is Haste. And considering that you really only need 1(at most 2) SCH per ally and I'm the only one w/ SCH leveled, there are plenty of others to cover that.

[Kaeko]

My MP as Tarutaru with capped MP merits is 1027 standing and 901 nuking. Perhaps moving to an "initial full MP" nuking set? This can push you an extra 600-1000 total damage before resting on a full MP pool, especially for an MP efficient job.

Also, for your Aerns soloing, when are you blowing Sublimation? I usually don't bother using it at all and just let it store unless I actually need it on the Reraise. I also store it on Puddings until higher chains and attempt a chain 6 with it. I'm not sure if it's the best method for overall speed/safety. As a non-taru, your Sublimation is a lot stronger so how you use this may be more key to your longevity than me.

Last thing... I think if SCH ever got a non-robe refresh slot it would get a huge boost. Not being able to keep AF1 head on at all times in the standing set lowers the speed at which Sublimation stores MP by 1MP/tick. Being able to keep AF1 hat on while still getting refresh normally from body slot would give you 4MP/tick with Sublimation going, as opposed to 3MP/tick right now.

I don't understand why you wouldn't be using it more often. You said you let it store the full charge then you only use it when you need it? I think that before you start doing anything you should have a full charge but after that you should be using it every 30-60 seconds. You realize that the AF hat does not raise the stored cap but merely makes the tics go from 2-3 MP per tic, so if you're only using it once in a while you wouldn't even need the hat.

The usage on puddings is probably debatable. For Ix'DRK popping I don't use it simply because there are only 3 pops in the room, so safety > speed, since if I go too fast I'll just get capped by the repop timer anyways. Puddings I probably should use it more often.

I'm pretty bad at Sublimation usage atm, I forget I have it half the time right now really. Having AF1 hat on in standing gear is a great boost for a SCH though.

[Aemora]

Whms should be more pissed that Sch's actually out-perform them now, with Paralynaga, and Erasaga... But no. Whm's are infact happy that they no longer have the burden of keeping people deattributed themselves.

Eh, from my personal experience and from what I've seen other WHMs talk about, we're not happy at all that SCHs can use na spells much more efficiently than us when most WHMs have been asking for Divine Veil to be put on a decent timer for forever.

I'd much rather Sch be focused on Accession+~na'in people and Whms be focused on Curing etc... Let the jobs do what they are best at.

• Whm's Cure.
  Blm's Nuke.
  Rdm's Refresh.
  Smn's be asked to come another job.
  Brd's be drooled over.
  Blu's who can't Cannonball worth a shit; Re: Smn.
  Sch's all of the above.

[Gilthas]

Yeah WHMs cure, they cure HP and they cure status effects.

Its not a question about letting jobs do what they're best at. Divine Veil was added so that WHMs could AoE na spells, but its stuck on a retarded timer.

Personally, I think that WHMs should be the best healers in the game, and healing status effects is a big part of the job, so much that until SCH was added they were the only main job with natural access to all status curing spells. Even now SCHs can only use na spells if they have Addendum: White activated.

Divine Veil has needed a serious upgrade since it was introduced, SCH just made this issue even more glaring.

[Aemora]

Although, at the same time, there is an annoyance when you can't fight something because you don't have a specific job to fulfill a specific role... Whilst this is an exaggeration for most things, perhaps look at things which petrify people; Namely Jailer of Faith. "Hey we have no Whm, can't do it :<"

"Hey, we got a Sch"

"lolSch"

*5 minutes later*

"lolWhm"

Fact is these main jobs will never be replaced my Scholar, it's a stupid arguement. Scholar compliments other jobs. Having access to Dispel only means that we are no longer dependant on Rdms or Brds (or lolCors). Having access to -na spells means we can cure people of these ailments twice as quick. And having access to Tier4 spells means that there is a greater choice for magic damage.

Scholar just offer a greater choice of things, that's all. It has a fantastic list of spells, much like Rdm does, but where Rdm excels in an infinate MP pool, Faster Casting and far, far, far more solo-play, Sch just got access to what Rdm didn't. All that leaves Whm with is Barspells (Wyrms) and Raise3... Soon will be we seeing people come Whm to just R3 people like Blms are begged to D2 those after events?

Sch won't make other jobs obsolete, it will just offer more and not be a wasted slot in the ally. :>

[Kaeko]

No one pointed this out yet, but SCH is officially the best PL curer in the game.

Accession Cure hits all party members you're PLing.

I'm sure no one is going to give a fuss about this one though.

[whoami]

invite sch to party drop in SS/phalanx/enspell drop out repeat 3 mintues later.

[Kaeko]

invite sch to party drop in SS/phalanx/enspell drop out repeat 3 mintues later.

Hm, You can get a capped Stoneskin for 5 minutes and a full lvl75 version Enspell regardless of the guy's LVL. This would be pretty hilarious to see.

[Lordwafik]

I was hoping nobody would say it so it didn't get nerfed to oblivion (Hi magic mortar), but I did actually PL a whole party right after the update to enspells from outside qufim all the way into the tower after they levelled.

Everyone gets full damage enspells, my stoneskin landed for the full effect, and MP Chakra gave me no MP issues. Mobs melted, SCH is a great PL when your party can actually hit the mob (no acc issueS) but if they have acc problems, SCH sucks due to enspells not taking any effect on whiffles. Phalanx did ok, but stoneskin was more efficient to keep up. we just had 1 person drop pt (the lvl20 sch) and let me join in their spot when buffs dropped.

[LD]

SCH may be very effective like that, but if they're not gunna nerf BRD PLing, they're not gunna nerf SCH.

[Kaeko]

SCH may be very effective like that, but if they're not gunna nerf BRD PLing, they're not gunna nerf SCH.

They were at least smart enough to prevent COR from being a PL god like BRD though. This is a minor application at best anyways though.

[Gilthas]

Honestly who gives a damn about PLing anyway. The added enspell damage and buffs are only a benefit for a few levels, no reason to nerf it just because of that.

For sure SE needs to rebalance a lot of things because of SCH, Divine Veil and Phalanx II (if what I've read about Phalanx II from a RDM being weaker than Phalanx from a SCH is accurate) are probably the most glaring issues. I just hope they don't waste time "fixing" SCH PLing.

EDIT: And I'm not saying that SE should remove the ability of SCH to AoE na spells or remove Stona from Addendum: White, far from it, I just think that Divine Veil should be put on a reasonable timer (something that should have been done years ago).

Put Divine Veil on a 1 minute timer and WHMs no longer have a reason to complain. Aside from whatever they complained about before I guess.

[Lordwafik]

Put Divine Veil on a 1 minute timer and WHMs no longer have a reason to complain. Aside from whatever they complained about before I guess.

I never understood why it was paired up with Divine Seal to begin with.

[Reapz]

Yeh it is pretty lame when you are fighting something like Soulflayers in nyzul who just love aoe status effects

[Gilthas]

Apparently SE used to think that being able to AoE status cures was too powerful, so they put it on a long recast timer to make sure it wasn't too useful.

Same philosophy as most of the Group 2 merits.

[Aemora]

So, I'm here in Bhaflau atm on Scholar meriting away for lulz... And I realise something...

I'm hardly out of MP or need to rest as Sch... Now, when I merit on Bard, and I do toss Ballads and pull and Sing away for the Melee's, I've not yet had 1 Rdm that's consistantly got plenty MP... Why is this I wonder?

So it got me thinking... Granted, I'm not hasting people on Rdm, but I am Curing, Enspellgaing, Stoneskingaing, Phalanxgaing... Why can't a Rdm keep up with as much MP as I can on Scholar.

Then it dawned... It's like having a paycheck weekly and a paycheck monthly... I get paid monthly irl and it's really easy to manage. However, when I get paid weekly (as I am atm, gg end of financial year), I struggle with my rl gilz... Perhaps this is the same and the whole concept of Scholar...

Scholar can manage their MP better than Red Mages... Their Refresh comesi n the form of Sublimation, a store of MP (as we all know) that we get after a certain amount of time (Re: monthly paycheck), where as Rdms get theirs over time. Rdms tend to use their MP as they have it (Re: Weekly paycheck), where as we use it to the point where we know we will have more eventually!

Just an observation I thought was kinda "ahhhhh!" when I was meriting.

Edit: This party had a dual-boxed Brd and I was getting 0 Ballads at my own request...

[Kaeko]

So, I'm here in Bhaflau atm on Scholar meriting away for lulz... And I realise something...

I'm hardly out of MP or need to rest as Sch... Now, when I merit on Bard, and I do toss Ballads and pull and Sing away for the Melee's, I've not yet had 1 Rdm that's consistantly got plenty MP... Why is this I wonder?

So it got me thinking... Granted, I'm not hasting people on Rdm, but I am Curing, Enspellgaing, Stoneskingaing, Phalanxgaing... Why can't a Rdm keep up with as much MP as I can on Scholar.

Then it dawned... It's like having a paycheck weekly and a paycheck monthly... I get paid monthly irl and it's really easy to manage. However, when I get paid weekly (as I am atm, gg end of financial year), I struggle with my rl gilz... Perhaps this is the same and the whole concept of Scholar...

Scholar can manage their MP better than Red Mages... Their Refresh comesi n the form of Sublimation, a store of MP (as we all know) that we get after a certain amount of time (Re: monthly paycheck), where as Rdms get theirs over time. Rdms tend to use their MP as they have it (Re: Weekly paycheck), where as we use it to the point where we know we will have more eventually!

Just an observation I thought was kinda "ahhhhh!" when I was meriting.

Edit: This party had a dual-boxed Brd and I was getting 0 Ballads at my own request...

I think if you want to count the RDM's own efficiency, you'd also have to take into account the fact Refresh costs MP, so even if they are getting 3MP/tick, you'd have to subtract X MP every 30 ticks to compensate for MP used to cast it on oneself.