Scholar Discussion #3 (post March patch)

[EternalSnow]

I would like to see more spells given to scholar and cool looking books =D

[LD]

I dunno, it's not like AOE Regen3 would make SCH significantly better than WHM in HNM as long as WHM still has Cure5 and its specialized gear. As far as merit goes, SCH is already a little better, so it may as well go the full 9.

[The Blackrose]

Last thing I need is some WHMs having anti-SCH attitude and giving me hell for what SE done. No thanks, let them keep Regen III lol.

That happened the minute we were given Accession + -na at 1:00 intervals.

I dunno, it's not like AOE Regen3 would make SCH significantly better than WHM in HNM as long as WHM still has Cure5 and its specialized gear. As far as merit goes, SCH is already a little better, so it may as well go the full 9.

Unfortunately, WHMs do need a greater niche. Regen 3 is one of those niches. I don't want to move in on them and make the situation worse. We're already forcing the devs to separate DS and DV.

I'd rather see a re-evaluation on the effectiveness of the Helix series on HNMs and the like before I see more and more spells being added to our arsenal. They're supposed to be our bread and butter yet are absolutely asstastic up there.

[LD]

Hmmm, SCH is basically built around efficiency. Regen 3 (and conceivably Regen 4) maybe not be as MP-effecient as Regen 1 & 2, but they are more efficent than a cure that heals roughly the same amount. I agree that any changes should focus on Helixes first, since like the Regen series, they're meant to be a more efficient form of a nuke, but unlike Regen, they rarely accomplish that. WHM might need a better ace than just Cure 5 before SCH gets Regen 3 & 4, but I still believe SCH should ultimately get it, since it's in keeping with the job's general theme.

[Eldelphia]

I just think that regen III being AoE would be insane. WHMS merits (if you go that route) and relic body will boost individual regens up but in events like Einherjar no one would give a crap that you can put a solo regen III on for 28 or something when the SCH could regen III an entire party. I think AoE regen III would be extremely overpowered.

Right now, I'm happy with the balance between SCH and WHM. WHM is my love, it's geared well and I love it. I really enjoy SCH too but I use it differently and for different things. SCH needs to be the new balance of roles that it is, it shouldn't be better at both the respective roles of BLM and WHM.

I think they should focus on the helices and weather on SCH and not take anymore WHM shinies away... SCH is a fantastic job and its flexibility is what I like. I am really looking forward to using the gear I've built up for WHM and BLM on it now I'm hitting the 70's.

[Acturus]

Regen III wouldn't be much of a boost either when looking at what we have and what we can do with it. SCH has so many ways already to heal and support a party that Regen III would be too much controversy, not enough substance.

I just hope SE gives us good additions via merits to Helices. Weather spells are fine, and I can't see myself meriting anything about them except maybe duration.

But Helix potency and accuracy would be wonderful. These spells are still pretty el oh el, and have no reason to be.

[LD]

Saying it wouldn't be good enough to give SCH is a retarded argument, because that boils down to why vs why not, and that can and will go on for-fucking-ever. WHM needing something better before SCH gets a boost makes more sense, because even if AOE Regen 3 doesn't make SCH the end-all healer, one could argue that A: WHM's place as a healer is already in danger, and B: SCH has had the most recent adjustments, so in terms of healing ability, WHM should get the next major buff.

Personally, I believe how good Regen 3 is for either job is irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, SCH gets DOT spells, it gets regen spells earlier, it should get regen 3 and maybe 4.
It just should. Balance is for pansies.

[Acturus]

Saying it wouldn't be good enough to give SCH is a retarded argument, because that boils down to why vs why not, and that can and will go on for-fucking-ever. WHM needing something better before SCH gets a boost makes more sense, because even if AOE Regen 3 doesn't make SCH the end-all healer, one could argue that A: WHM's place as a healer is already in danger, and B: SCH has had the most recent adjustments, so in terms of healing ability, WHM should get the next major buff.

Personally, I believe how good Regen 3 is for either job is irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, SCH gets DOT spells, it gets regen spells earlier, it should get regen 3 and maybe 4.
It just should. Balance is for pansies.

I'm not saying it's not "good enough" to give SCH, I'm saying that at this stage, it's not a worthwhile addition to the job class. We're already exceling, why make any further changes that are just redundant?

Regen III wouldn't be much of a boost for SCH to have, and the ability to merit Regen III would be a waste of a merit category.

Unless we're all trying to talk like SE should go back and re-draft SCH again, then sure, let's talk about Regen III.

[Meian]

Regain woooooooooo
Or give that to WHM and give SCH something else...

But yes, Helix needs work for endgame or change the formula for it entirely to make it better against the INT heavy mobs (most endgame mobs...)

[terranova]

Im tempted to quote you and replace most with all, but that's good enough.

And moar love for blm and whm. SE is giving SCH merits, that's enough for now IMO. My stance after the Sch update is that SE leaves the job alone and don't fuck with it. I'm very surprised we didn't get nerfed, especially with the huge uproar of QQing it got from people on the day of that update.(Then they play it and realize SCH isn't as broken as it appears to be haha).

[LD]

I'm not saying it's not "good enough" to give SCH, I'm saying that at this stage, it's not a worthwhile addition to the job class.

Sounds like a game of semantics to me, but have it your way. I'm just saying there are better reasons for SCH not to get Regen 3 right away. I don't necessarily agree with any of them, but they make more sense to me.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Did I miss something? When did III become an MP-efficient part of the Regen line?

[Eldelphia]

Did I miss something? When did III become an MP-efficient part of the Regen line?

The difference between 12 and 20 HP AoE'd per tick is enough to make me think that n enough situations it would tip the boat in your favour. Sure Regen II is more MP-efficient but I can see situations where as a healer I'd rather have that constant extra HP return from III than worrying about the minimal increase in MP. Depends on your group setup etc

[DaGod]

Isn't regen III 18 hp per tick?

[Tsuko_Asura]

The difference between 12 and 20 HP AoE'd per tick is enough to make me think that n enough situations it would tip the boat in your favour. Sure Regen II is more MP-efficient but I can see situations where as a healer I'd rather have that constant extra HP return from III than worrying about the minimal increase in MP. Depends on your group setup etc

I understand that, but the point of Regen is MP efficiency. Scholar would be just dandy without Regen II, let alone the third, and least MP-efficient tier.

[LD]

The point of Regen is to be more MP efficient than Cures. While each tier is less MP efficient than the last, it still accomplishes the main point of the spell. Also, I'm not sure if that's hyperbole or ignorance, but it's giving me an ulcer. Regens are meant to be used situationally, you don't Reg3 a backline who only needs ~200 HP and the benefits of a Reg1 would be eaten in 1 hit on any job that will take damage regularly. You apply what a person needs while considering future potential damage. If it's sooner than later, you use a Cure, but that's much less MP efficient. There's also the lower amount of hate produced and the damage buffer that's created. The entire point of using Regen is to use fewer Cures, and the more powerful the Regen, the fewer Cures you have to use. You want to use fewer Cures, because they create more hate. In fact, Regen 3 is more enmity efficient than Regen 2 (and Reg2 is more enmity efficient than Reg1). If you focus on the MP-efficiency aspect and just Reg1 everyone, you may as well be Cure4 spamming. Either way, you're sacrificing any kind of strategic flexibility for a myopic battle plan that isn’t always important and might get you and your PT killed.

[Saisio]

Noob question won't take much time...

Using Dark Arts on 75WHM... will I be able to skill up Dark Magic? If not I don't see how I'm going to be able to get it up to the new cap I'll get. My blm isn't high enough to reach the cap...

[Acturus]

Noob question won't take much time...

Using Dark Arts on 75WHM... will I be able to skill up Dark Magic? If not I don't see how I'm going to be able to get it up to the new cap I'll get. My blm isn't high enough to reach the cap...

You can't skill up anything that your main job doesn't have access to.

On that note, the Dark Arts doesn't just raise the cap of your Dark Magic, it actually -places- your skill at the rating.

Like, when I hit 65, my Elemental Magic was not capped, but equipping the Ele Torque still gave me +7 over the Dark Arts-given skill.

[LD]

You wont have to. Arts automatically takes you to 246 if your natural skill level is below a certain point.

[Saisio]

Wow ok that's amazing. Thanks for the info.