Scholar Discussion #3 (post March patch)

[The Blackrose]

Again, my interpretation of this merit category is that it only affects the recast of the Light Arts and Dark Arts Job abilities. Does it also affect recast timers of the spells when grimoires are active?

This has been my interpretation too. There has been arguments on this in KI as well.

[Not Kuno]

Wait whats wrong with the blm + sch staves? They look pretty good to me. >.>;

[LD]

If they're not superior to HQ staves, they're seen as wastes of time. The MAB may be superior to HQ (though maybe not, I'm not exactly sure if staff DMG bonus reacts the same way as MAB vs. MDB), but staves' m.acc bonus is much higher than what appears in the Mythics' help text.

I believe the reason SMN's Mystic is getting a pass is because it would take less for the Aftermath to be superior to +5 SMN skill (offensively, anyway).

[Kaeko]

Wait whats wrong with the blm + sch staves? They look pretty good to me. >.>;

It won't beat the HQ staves unless you have less than 35 MAB including traits. This is true regardless of any innate MDB on the target.

Maxed SCH/RDM should get around high ~39 MAB at least. BLM should easily beat this since it already gets +32 MAB just from the trait. I think most maxed BLMs hover near the 65ish mark.

Either way the MAB and MACC stats shouldn't beat an HQ staff for most people. I guess you can't really knock know how the other effects like Aftermath are since no one has tried, but the prospect of having to melee on either job isn't good. Maybe if the aftermath was an "until you zone" duration, it might be good to pop an icarus wing then use it...

[LD]

Right, that's the real question. If the Aftermath is short, like the Relics', then it's worthless, no matter how potent it is. The entire point is to improve how the job works, and mages don't melee. If the Aftermath is at least the same as an NQ staff and lasts 2 hours or more, then it's wroth the time and effort.

[Not Kuno]

It won't beat the HQ staves unless you have less than 35 MAB including traits. This is true regardless of any innate MDB on the target.

Maxed SCH/RDM should get around high ~39 MAB at least. BLM should easily beat this since it already gets +32 MAB just from the trait. I think most maxed BLMs hover near the 65ish mark.

Either way the MAB and MACC stats shouldn't beat an HQ staff for most people. I guess you can't really knock know how the other effects like Aftermath are since no one has tried, but the prospect of having to melee on either job isn't good. Maybe if the aftermath was an "until you zone" duration, it might be good to pop an icarus wing then use it...

Damn. I was hoping for just the loss in magic acc (which can be made up easily, especially if the eseal thing is full time eseal). Looking at the stats it looked good but I forgot that staves have the MAB in a different part of the forumula (or something, I hate math D: ). I guess we'll have to wait and see how aftermath works based on people getting different weapons. I knew I shouldn't of expected anything but soulcrushing dissapointment from SE again.

[drwaffles]

HQ Staves are virtually irreplacable unless SE implements some uber-broken item that incorporates all the aspects of each individual Staff. Because even if a "multistaff" matched the magic accuracy and +15% damage of HQ staves, it still doesn't give you the +10 hMP from Pluto's, the +5 INT and +10 Elemental skill from Aquilo's, the -20% physical damage taken from Terra's, the +5 MND from Neptune's and the +10% Cure potency from Apollo's.

Give me a staff that does all that in addition to matching the MACC and MAB and I'll gladly spend a year working on a relic.

[LD]

ehhhh, NQ Dark gives the same hMP as HQ, anything superior to an HQ would probably be better than the additional stats and skill anyway, and not everyone needs cure potency.

I mean, it's a decent point, you'd have a dark staff at least, but you're still saving space and potentially doing superior numbers on everything else.

[drwaffles]

Um, exactly which job that regularly uses the staves doesn't use Cures frequently enough to warrant carrying around something that boosts Cure potency by 10%? You might say BLM, but personally I toss out Cures/Regens on BLM fairly regularly, certainly enough to justify bringing my Apollo's with me.

[LD]

You're welcome to your opinion, but the point is that in the face of a 'multistaff', most of the ele staves can be thrown to the wayside (except dark.) I mean, I'm sure some mage would like the ability to swap in earth for the times when they know they drew too much hate or a bad AOE is coming. However, it's doubtful that A: it would be enough to save you, B: if it was, you wouldn't have survived without it, and C: the situation would happen often enough in a controlled situation. Dark staff's high hMP is universally helpful, so there's absolutely no replacing it, just as Light Staff is irreplaceable for RDM, SCH, & WHM (though in the case of WHM, there are 2 strong alternatives if you're only healing), but with a Prism Staff, everything else is situational, preferential, or useless.

[drwaffles]

I don't mean to be rude, but you really don't sound like you know what you're talking about... the fact that you're claiming Terra's Staff's -20% physical damage reduction isn't useful (especially when your post is just a few below Kaeko's, of all people) and don't realise that Templar Mace easily trumps any staff for any Cures since ZNMs were added are just two indicators.

[LD]

I don't mean to be rude, but you really don't sound like you know what you're talking about... the fact that you're claiming Terra's Staff's -20% physical damage reduction isn't useful (especially when your post is just a few below Kaeko's, of all people) and don't realise that Templar Mace easily trumps any staff for any Cures since ZNMs were added are just two indicators.

just as Light Staff is irreplaceable for RDM, SCH, & WHM (though in the case of WHM, there are 2 strong alternatives if you're only healing)

I'm sorry I didn't play up its importance, it's a footnote to me.

How could -20% physical be that good when most of the really bad AOEs aren't even physical? I'm not a taru, I'm not gunna be OHKO'd unless it was something devastating enough to kill me if I had the staff up or not.

[drwaffles]

Because not everything you do will involve AoEs being the only threat to your health?

[LD]

Right, anything else will be a product of my tank's abilities and mine. If I fuck up enough that I'd need it, maybe I deserve to die?

[Kaeko]

One of SCH's strengths is Crowd Control, especially on higher-end, higher-difficulty mobs which can be resistant or immune to Sleep (Graivga, Bindga).

Any job that needs to help or is in charge of crowd control runs the risk of getting hit with melee attacks, in which case a damage down set becomes relevant. So Terra's or Earth's would be pretty important still. Also a lot of mages nowadays use Umbra/Cheviot Cape. If you're going to blow 1 slot for -6/-12% damage, you certainly should blow 1 slot for -20% damage right?

[drwaffles]

Not going to derail this topic into a pointless and unrelated debate about the very obvious uses of Terra's Staff. Besides, anyone with half a brain can probably deduce for themselves why what you're saying is rather stupid. Weren't you also the guy that tried to debate something really dumb like "AMII > tier IV" vs. about five career BLMs, myself included? If so, oh dear.

[LD]

Well, we were speaking in generalities, but if we're narrowing the focus to CC, of course it's important. If you take action that will definitely get you a monster's attention, that's different from simply casting on a single mob whose attention should never waver. However, it's not like you're doing that without the normal string of buffs, which I'm pretty sure make up the bulk of your defense. In any situation where you have to deal with more than one slept/bound/grav'd mob, if you can't get them back under control, no amount of defense will help you without proper support.

For the record, I didn't say they were superior, I said they were used (read: utilized) more than Penance, and I still hold to that. How the people interpreted it it isn't my fault or problem. Further, I really don't give a damn how long you've played, you are always subject to scrutiny. Also, I find it very funny how just like that discussion, rather than make a point, you go on about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation.

[Grandphoenix]

As for Tupsimati even though you lose the static accuracy of the staves most of the effects on the weapon come when under the proper elemental weather so you'll be nuking with an obi obviously anyways and maybe even klimaform I think it could work decently

[Not Kuno]

So what do people think about the merits? I have the Helix Acc/MAB almost capped, but after that I'm kind of torn. Enhancing MV doesn't seem too useful because it's a 10 minute ability, where Sublimation gets used more often. There was a thread about the MV merits but that kinda faded away. What are people here doing?

[Reapz]

I haven't made a start on SCH merits yet but when I get round to it then it will most likely be Helix and Sub