Scholar Discussion #3 (post March patch)

[LD]

Pretty much the same. Modus Veritas enhancements might break the fabric of creation, but it's still a 10m JA, and I seriously doubt Grimoire Recast also lowers Strat recast as some people believe it might. Still though, I wonder how useful the Helix Merits will really be...

[The Blackrose]

Grimoire Recast does not lower Strategem Recast timers nor do they have the effect of Scholar feet.

Also, the only way 50 more MP would be any good for me from Sublimation is if I sit on the Sublimation for a while and am not using it as soon as it pops to Completed.

So I'm thinking 5/5 Helix Attack/Accuracy and 5/5 Modus Veritas. I'm especially interested in what Kaeko and Spekkio have been batting around.

[Daiiawn]

For me 5/5 sublimation was the first thing i merited without a second thought. I do enough popped nms / big boss fights / solo's etc, where having a fully charged sublimation before the fight is a huge bonus. I can start any fight i go into with a extra 298mp stored up thanks to my new merits :D. Stupid taru hp *Grumbles*

[Kaeko]

So what do people think about the merits? I have the Helix Acc/MAB almost capped, but after that I'm kind of torn. Enhancing MV doesn't seem too useful because it's a 10 minute ability, where Sublimation gets used more often. There was a thread about the MV merits but that kinda faded away. What are people here doing?

Considering the "grimnore" merit doesn't change the casting speed or recast timers, I'd ditch that one for sure.

MV would is interesting for that stacking concept but come on, if that really worked it would be nerfed. Still, I think a full MV merit would give you a 1.6x damage increase from a normal helix. So on normalish mobs, a full merit MV well timed would break 2k-2.5k. Even on a 10 minute timer that's inticing.

Would defo do helix merits.

Sub merits help most in situations where you're storing mp for some sudden burst that requires it. I'm debating this or MV merits atm + already wanting to do helix.

[astura]

well here's a intresting idea i was talking over with a friend in game seeing how much int you pack onto a taru sch/blm (79 base int w/o merit). we came up with 173 int total in gear food and merits. Here's how we broke it down:
79 base
+5 merits (84)
+7 food (91)
10 wand (or 10 alkatrops or kirin pole) (101)
3 shield (or 1 grip) (104/102)
2 ammo (106/104)
7 head (matts cap or 4 head with af) (113/108)
5 neck (prudence torque or 3 plimoth stole) (118/111)
4 ears (122/115)
11 body (or 10 on nq errant) (133/125)
5 int 2 mab hands (yigit though could use errant) (138/130)
10 rings (148/140)
5 back (gleeman's) (153/145)
10 sagotariose obi (10 int off a charge last short duration) (163/155)
8 leg (171/163)
3 int 2 mab feet (yigit) (173/166)
5/5 helix merits (10 mab 15 macc) (170/162int)(24+4+10=38 mab)

so total of 173/166 int and 38 mab
use es+wether (10% bonus) and klimaform+20% potency you can get
131 dmg helix on a 125 int based mob (with 173 int set up) or
118 dmg helix on a 125 int based mob (with 166 int set up)

modus vertia's merits at 5/5 allows 50% more duration (so 1/2*1/2 +1/2 or 3/4)
so you now get double the dmg and 3/4 the duration or 150% more dmg on the helix now

now assuming 3 sec after landing is the first tic and a 60 second duration
you can get 10 modus vertias off (.75^10= .056 so round to 5) to get .05*60=3 seconds so you get the first tic exactly
this leads to 2^10 or 1024 times the dmg
so 131*1024=134,144 dmg
assuming the lower end of this gear you get 118 helix dmg so 120,832

even if you can only get 118 dmg helix and 9 off for the first tic you still do 60,416 dmg.
you can in theory 1 shot or almost 1 shot any mob the game every 10 minutes with a proper set up and very precise coordination of ja usage.

[Not Kuno]

So it's confirmed that MV stacks on top of MV that someone else did? For 4x effect? I don't think I've ever seen 2 schs in the same place to ever test something like that.

[astura]

i was just saying if they stack i need someone on asura server to test this but confirmed 82 seconds max duration using time stamps.

[FailureMidgard]

So it's confirmed that MV stacks on top of MV that someone else did? For 4x effect? I don't think I've ever seen 2 schs in the same place to ever test something like that.

Yes, they definitely stack.

And Sublimation merits are pretty meh...carry 1 ether to every fight, that's gonna give you more MP than full sublimation merits will. Furthermore, on any fight you're nuking, MV merits will give you more added damage than sublimation merits will.

MV enhances what you can do, and like I said in an earlier post, in most situations, will add more damage than 50mp worth of nukes. I think meriting Sublimation in place of MV is a poor decision for almost anyone. I'm also unsure that they will nerf MV stacking. SE has a habit of randomly deciding what they want to allow. They may add a cap at some # of people, but even if they cap it at ~8, that's still a large chunk of damage. Past that, how many shells can actually pull 10 MV merited scholar's out of their ass? Even if SE doesn't nerf it, most shells can't do that.

[Kaeko]

Yes, they definitely stack.

And Sublimation merits are pretty meh...carry 1 ether to every fight, that's gonna give you more MP than full sublimation merits will. Furthermore, on any fight you're nuking, MV merits will give you more added damage than sublimation merits will.

MV enhances what you can do, and like I said in an earlier post, in most situations, will add more damage than 50mp worth of nukes. I think meriting Sublimation in place of MV is a poor decision for almost anyone. I'm also unsure that they will nerf MV stacking. SE has a habit of randomly deciding what they want to allow. They may add a cap at some # of people, but even if they cap it at ~8, that's still a large chunk of damage. Past that, how many shells can actually pull 10 MV merited scholar's out of their ass? Even if SE doesn't nerf it, most shells can't do that.

You just convinced me to go helix MV ;o

[LD]

I still think it isn't that great, since not only is it a 10 minute ability, it's dependent on your using a Helix (which really hasn't been proven to be useful yet.) Sublimation merits aren't that useful either, but they can at least be applied to more situations.

[astura]

I just pointed out the max int gear a taru sch/blm could use (173 or 166 without any brd int etudes). All those #s tossed out are baed upon a 125 int based mob. hell at 166 int on this taru you could still get a 100 dmg helix against a 138 int based mob. Now as far as i know there is not any mob in this game with more then 138 int. (if there is then i am wrong on this). Anyways the main point is yet its a 10 minute ability but if done right its a 10 minute 3 second zerg every 10 minutes vrs a tp burn every 2 hours. 12 three second mobs or 1 thirty second mob. Also outside off kirin/jol/sky gods and wyrms I have had not problem for landing helix on any mob for at least as much total damage as a tier 4 nuke. I'd like to also point klimaform+es should stick this super int based helix on any mob 99% the time unless its magic immune or resistant.

[Grandphoenix]

I just got my Ixion's Cloak and was wondering how it fares versus higher level mobs. Does the 5mag acc and 13 int replace 15 skill really?

[astura]

If you can't break your int over the mobs int you'll never get a respectable helix dmg. (Now that said i personally stack int in every slot i can get it into for helix). The main advantage of Ixion's cloak is that with Orochi Nodowa you get can get auto refresh full time a 0 hp drain sublimation without SS on which goes a long way if your trying to solo mobs. As far dmg goes consider all the options you have for head and body slot.

head: af (4 int)/elite baret (4 skilll)/yigit (2 mab)
body: errant (10int)/af (15 skill 1 int)/yigit (5 mab)

it basically comes down a very solid middle of the road combo.
For dmg its 1 less int the af head /errant combo which is very similar dmg to yigit/yigit combo(sence 2 int~1mab for dmg)
Also 5 macc~5 skill so its the best skill/dmg combo between those 2 pieces of gear that you could get. (3 more int and 1 less macc/skill then a baret+errant combo)
for pure dmg its not that far behind the other for resist its less then baret/af combo
that said its very solid choice to get similar dmg with not trading off some way to reduce resist (hint if that's a problem kmilaform and resist builds with obis and hq staffs should be used then)

[LD]

The damage on paper or on 'most mobs' wasn't the problem. The resist rates on HNM was what made Helixes generally impractical and I still haven't seen any testing there yet.

[Not Kuno]

I love my Ixion Cloak. The one less INT doesn't bother me, seeing as how Magic Acc can make it last longer, which in turn results in alot more damage then that 1 int would have done.

[The Blackrose]

The damage on paper or on 'most mobs' wasn't the problem. The resist rates on HNM was what made Helixes generally impractical and I still haven't seen any testing there yet.

It's not resists that are the problem. I find the issue I'm having is breaking the INT threshold of the HNM to get the initial damage to be worth a damn. Right now my helix config pushes 120 - 125 INT (missing Yigit Gages and Prudence Torque) and an initial Cryohelix can connect for approximately 50 depending on the circumstance. As far as duration is concerned, it's here and there. Klimaform helps sticking it.

I want an Ixion Cloak to play with...

EDIT:

Oh, and while running around doing the new 8 Key Item NMs in La Vaule, throwing up 200+ Cryohelix on Lobisons are absolute sex.

[Grandphoenix]

I love my Ixion Cloak. The one less INT doesn't bother me, seeing as how Magic Acc can make it last longer, which in turn results in alot more damage then that 1 int would have done.

erm let me rephrase that for hnm sky gods etc should still use the +15 skill or would ixion cloak suffice? Mag acc was found to be better when stacked with other mag acc gear wasn't it ? At the moment I have Ixion cloak, Balrahns Ring, Goliard cuffs and clogs. for 14 mag acc

[astura]

For helix its should always be int (to 152+hq staff) then stack skill for helix (gives you a a 100 dmg helix on a 125 int mobs barring magic reduction or mdb). The only mobs i have ever had problems landing helix on were kirin/jol/sky gods and thats more of a int based issue then a resist issue imo. (have a better helix int set now+merits then back then).The problem is that you could get skill to a good enough resist rate but you have almost no int to get anything over 20 dmg on those mobs. The only time you should be skill stacking is to break to as close as possible to 320 skill for resist rates on tier 4s. (imo)

[FailureMidgard]

I still think it isn't that great, since not only is it a 10 minute ability, it's dependent on your using a Helix (which really hasn't been proven to be useful yet.) Sublimation merits aren't that useful either, but they can at least be applied to more situations.

It may not be that great, but given the options, nothing else is better.
We're comparing it to +mp merits...actually, I think +mp merits are -better- than sublimation merits in most situations.

MV merits give you a 10minute cooldown for free extra damage. They let you add in a bit more damage in a burn situation.

Don't get me wrong, they aren't omg amazing, but I think they are still solid merits, as opposed to more MP merits.

[Thesaintlucifer]

\-O-O-/ I using5/5 sublimation too , that would carry me on a good 360 mp saved

i was testing out grimoire recast and Helix MAB see if anythign goes on, and i think helix is 2nd'd