Scholar Discussion #3 (post March patch)

[Kaelen]

I would consider getting the gown first to help build a resist set. The little bit of int here and there while building it adds up

[Shin Volcano]

As of now, I don't have much opportunity to use Scholar in endgame. Having White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage, and Bard really doesn't let you use anything else. So if I put some time into getting better stuff for it, I'm not sure if I should be aiming for a better main healing Scholar, or Black Mage party Scholar. This would help pick whether I want a more potent Stoneskin from Scholar's Pants +1 or slightly more Intelligence from Scholar's Gown +1 or Scholar's Mortarboard +1.

I have BLM, WHM and RDM, and i still use SCH over majority of them, you really just have to convince your LS that SCH does help, it took a while for my HNM (when i was in it) to let me start using SCH over WHM when they saw how much more effective it is in most cases, before that it was like asking to come pre-update PUP it was just impossible.

Few examples where SCH Excells (based on my playstyle anyway)

HNMs:

Khimira reason being SCH also has stona which is the main reason WHM is needed on him, but on top of that if you wait after tp moves can just run in and Stone skin tanks, or if the tank PT is full even being in the BLM pt helps with Storm Spells and Klimaform for more accurate Nukes for you and the BLM and trust me, that shit does help alot.

Tiamat: while i wont replace WHM here because barspells and shell are Vital they are however very useful for BLM PT again, storm spells and more accurate nukes You can still take blm or whm over sch here, but the option is very well open if you just want to do things diffrently.

King Behemoth: He's pretty much self explanatory, Kited fight, Helix Nukes etc.

Ouryu: If your ls likes to spam Bahamut Vs 2 you need this fight alot, Ice spells and wind spells are key to beating him and this is mainly where SCH gets the biggest use with hail storm and windstorm not to mention even for tank pt stona and stone skin etc.

Dark Ixion: this is probably the only fight SCH has very little use, unless you want to "try " to keep Meele alive but good luck. i still prefer WHM for him anyway...he can be a real bitch.

Sandworm fights: again, very usefull in various of the battles, espcially serket with his damn AOe poisons. lanbton worm, also good for blms and nuking with wind spells.

Fafnir/nidhoog: I can't TELL you how much more sch is usefull here, in tank, Melee and blm pt, tank pt moslty because if he feels like going on a Wing spam, Stoneskin is pretty godly here, and for meele blinda blm pt Thunderstorm if dbl lighting weather isnt up. i strongly recommend sch over whm here, it will help alot.

None-HNM Events

Limbus: great replacement, sometimes crowd control is needed and if shit hits the fan faster raises always welcome. pretty much can do everything that whm can or better, if low maniing blm, they also help in these Pts.

Nyzul: All around great, with a RDM, SCH and or brd+,meele there really isnt anything you can't do, even done successful runs as SCH and i was the only healer.

Dynamis: Deaths happens alot here, there is no avoiding it, unless you have people bitching about there buffers, those raises can save alot of time. can even fill in the gap if not enough BLMs, if you have a tank PT also more helpful.

Salvage: SCH wins over WHM here fully, i havnt been in any situtation where i felt whm was needed more then SCH, if they give you ability SJ and magic asap, the group is pretty much invicible on the 1st few floors. strong recommendation here, but Good luck convicing your group to give you those cells 1st, cause it isnt easy.

Not sure if i missed any events but that's it in a nutshell, if you play it right there really isn't anything they can't do, but if you have oldschool players who refuse to accept change, yea you aren't going to get much use out of it :/

[Nevex]

In my linkshell SCH is very well seen and we even replace WHMs with that for things like Odin.

We 9-man'd Nidhogg once, with me (SCH) being the only job in the alliance to have access to Cure4 other than PLDs (although the lack of RDM and WHM wasn't supposed to happen).

I basically play WHM just for sponging exp loss nowdays, SCH is that good.

[Classikmage]

As of now, I don't have much opportunity to use Scholar in endgame. Having White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage, and Bard really doesn't let you use anything else. So if I put some time into getting better stuff for it, I'm not sure if I should be aiming for a better main healing Scholar, or Black Mage party Scholar. This would help pick whether I want a more potent Stoneskin from Scholar's Pants +1 or slightly more Intelligence from Scholar's Gown +1 or Scholar's Mortarboard +1.

Well, since SCH can be effective as either a healer or a nuker. I would say you should leave it up to this question. If you DID get to use SCH more. Which aspect do you think you would be using more in your LS?

Would you be in the BLM PT with a COR and 4 BLM's? Or would you be in the tank PT?

[Shin Volcano]

In my linkshell SCH is very well seen and we even replace WHMs with that for things like Odin.

We 9-man'd Nidhogg once, with me (SCH) being the only job in the alliance to have access to Cure4 other than PLDs (although the lack of RDM and WHM wasn't supposed to happen).

I basically play WHM just for sponging exp loss nowdays, SCH is that good.

Same thing i do...i mainly use it just so it gets attention, there really hasnt been any real use for it over SCh for me since the recent updates, only reason people want me WHm is to be a raise 3 whore and peoples inability to get buffers really isn't my problem anymore. (Yes i have people who acttualy cry over getting a raise 2 instead of a 3)

[Magicide]

As of now, I don't have much opportunity to use Scholar in endgame. Having White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage, and Bard really doesn't let you use anything else. So if I put some time into getting better stuff for it, I'm not sure if I should be aiming for a better main healing Scholar, or Black Mage party Scholar. This would help pick whether I want a more potent Stoneskin from Scholar's Pants +1 or slightly more Intelligence from Scholar's Gown +1 or Scholar's Mortarboard +1.

This is a bit off the point but you should not be casting Stoneskin in your AF pants. The meat of the stoneskin formula is (Enhancing Magic / 3) + MND, so MND counts for 3x the potency that enhancing magic does. Therefore the +8 MND from Mahatma Slops means a lot more to your stoneskin potency than does the +15 enhancing from your Scholar's Pants, and is still equivalent to the 15 skill + 3 MND from Scholar's Pants +1.

The only other spell that should be a primary concern for skill under Light Arts is Phalanx, and in that case (as far as anyone knows) there is no benefit for Scholar's Pants +1 there because it's calculated off of straight Enhancing skill.

All in all Scholar's Pants +1 seem pretty worthless. Do body or head first.

[Shin Volcano]

This is a bit off the point but you should not be casting Stoneskin in your AF pants. The meat of the stoneskin formula is (Enhancing Magic / 3) + MND, so MND counts for 3x the potency that enhancing magic does. Therefore the +8 MND from Mahatma Slops means a lot more to your stoneskin potency than does the +15 enhancing from your Scholar's Pants, and is still equivalent to the 15 skill + 3 MND from Scholar's Pants +1.

The only other spell that should be a primary concern for skill under Light Arts is Phalanx, and in that case (as far as anyone knows) there is no benefit for Scholar's Pants +1 there because it's calculated off of straight Enhancing skill.

All in all Scholar's Pants +1 seem pretty worthless. Do body or head first.

It's really not hard to reach the SS cap. and even then the pants are still good for enfeebling, as the MND+ and the 15 Enfeebling magic skill.

[Elipse]

I used the enhancing calculator on the web and perhaps its wrong but based on the info there I easily cap stoneskin on scholar. I use Af1 pants and I prefer it over mahatma slops because of the additional 20mp. I use things like Goliard body and even using hierarch belt. In all my macros I attempt to maximize the mp I maintain with sch cause the mp pool is weak. If I had AF+1 pants, I would likely replace the Omega ring in my stoneskin macro for an ether ring for a little more max mp.

It can be argued that its not necessary to have full mp every time you cast it, but I do it for those odd times where I just rested to full mp and hit stoneskin macro (thus possibly losing a bunch of mp I just rested back). Again someone could just say don't use stoneskin right after resting (use blink first!) or something but its so easy to set up a macro for it and you really lose nothing. I know I'm not perfect when I play and I'm bound to burn some mp pool at the wrong time if my macros aren't set up right.

[Shin Volcano]

There are ways to maintain MP effectivly with SCH, Astral ring or anything with - HP is a bad idea for SCH period, i don't even attempt to use anything with - HP except the penetent rope untill i get my hands on Relic belt..

[Elipse]

There are ways to maintain MP effectivly with SCH, Astral ring or anything with - HP is a bad idea for SCH period, i don't even attempt to use anything with - HP except the penetent rope untill i get my hands on Relic belt..

I agree to a point. It does affect your sublimation, but I personally don't see it as such a big deal to say "-hp is bad period". I agree enough to say avoid it where possible and when it makes sense to do so. This is a twist of words and I'm not implying you said it but please follow the logic "+hp is great, period". See in a small way if you imply that -hp is bad in all cases, then you're implying that +hp is great in all cases. (implying less is bad, is like saying more is good).

Clearly its not exactly what you said and clearly +hp is not the best in all cases. It is and always will come down to situational uses of all your gear. If a piece has -hp but has an appropriate upside for the situation, then I'll use it.

[Grey Jorildyn]

SCH is so fantastic in a Dark Ixion tanking party when you're using 1 PLD/RDM tank. Cushion the tank with Stoneskin, Phalanx, a RDM and a BRD, and you have a really solid party with very high survivability. Just did this last night for the 3rd or 4th time and it is just wonderful.

[Elipse]

I was reading the Wiki about Sublimation and saw this "The MP limit is 25% of your max HP (before applying "Converts HP -> MP gear")."

Does this mean if I wear an ether ring it won't affect sublimation?

[The Blackrose]

SCH is so fantastic in a Dark Ixion tanking party when you're using 1 PLD/RDM tank. Cushion the tank with Stoneskin, Phalanx, a RDM and a BRD, and you have a really solid party with very high survivability. Just did this last night for the 3rd or 4th time and it is just wonderful.

... Until you get MPKed by Lightning Spear.

If you're reading this somewhere Saasuke, die.

[Shin Volcano]

I agree to a point. It does affect your sublimation, but I personally don't see it as such a big deal to say "-hp is bad period". I agree enough to say avoid it where possible and when it makes sense to do so. This is a twist of words and I'm not implying you said it but please follow the logic "+hp is great, period". See in a small way if you imply that -hp is bad in all cases, then you're implying that +hp is great in all cases. (implying less is bad, is like saying more is good).

Clearly its not exactly what you said and clearly +hp is not the best in all cases. It is and always will come down to situational uses of all your gear. If a piece has -hp but has an appropriate upside for the situation, then I'll use it.

When do you think - HP has any use then? granted most is granting MP but i'v seen to many sitations where people who wear - HP gear get one shotted (based on big fights) due to af 2 body and af1 hat i tend to use sublimation full time even over rdm refresh, things like serket ring and astral earrings may work well for rdm, but jobs like WHM SCH and SMN your asking to die using that gear because 9 times out of 10, your either sacraficing - Enmity which is VERY important for a healing SCH or MND+ which mainly only effects enfeebles and slight cure Potency, which are far more important then 1 time +MP i am acttualy kind of glad they didnt let SCH wear the Z gear set, because the last thing id like to see is idioits using full zenith gear in anything other then town gear like i see a lot of WHM who have no clue what they are doing full timing Z slacks and crown over - Enimity, most of the gear SCH can wear exclusivly gives Hp+mp boost, Escpially the Af2. and you have the remember the golden rule with covert gear, once you cast 1-2 spells, that extra MP is now useless, but you still have the HP loss. MP is no bigger a problem for me as sch then it is for any other mage, never felt i needed to sacrafice MY hp for a few extra MP that is gone in one spell and tends to be over priced.

[Elipse]

When do you think - HP has any use then? granted most is granting MP but i'v seen to many sitations where people who wear - HP gear get one shotted (based on big fights) due to af 2 body and af1 hat i tend to use sublimation full time even over rdm refresh, things like serket ring and astral earrings may work well for rdm, but jobs like WHM SCH and SMN your asking to die using that gear because 9 times out of 10, your either sacraficing - Enmity which is VERY important for a healing SCH or MND+ which mainly only effects enfeebles and slight cure Potency, which are far more important then 1 time +MP i am acttualy kind of glad they didnt let SCH wear the Z gear set, because the last thing id like to see is idioits using full zenith gear in anything other then town gear like i see a lot of WHM who have no clue what they are doing full timing Z slacks and crown over - Enimity, most of the gear SCH can wear exclusivly gives Hp+mp boost, Escpially the Af2. and you have the remember the golden rule with covert gear, once you cast 1-2 spells, that extra MP is now useless, but you still have the HP loss. MP is no bigger a problem for me as sch then it is for any other mage, never felt i needed to sacrafice MY hp for a few extra MP that is gone in one spell and tends to be over priced.

This is what I said: "I use Af1 pants and I prefer it over mahatma slops because of the additional 20mp. I use things like Goliard body and even using hierarch belt. In all my macros I attempt to maximize the mp I maintain with sch cause the mp pool is weak. If I had AF+1 pants, I would likely replace the Omega ring in my stoneskin macro for an ether ring for a little more max mp."

This all started cause I made a comment about maximizing my mp in macros where you don't need any other stat. I also said Ether ring which is "Converts" hp and not "-hp" which means it has 0 effect on sublimation. I never said I wish for Zenith so I could lower my hp as much as possible and get myself killed. So don't talk about people being idiots for wanting Zenith gear simply because you lack flexibility to see that it could be great gear in some situations.

I talked about a situation (casting stoneskin) as all gear is situational. I never talked about during cures or performing other activities, we have macros for such things. What does -enmity have to do with anything I said about stoneskin? For the record I wear my novia earring while casting stoneskin and slot in -enmity where possible in other spots.

I also made a point that you're comment about -hp is short sighted. I was not making the point to say that -hp is good, but saying that its not always bad as long as the +mp or whatever else you gain in return is of value in that situation.

You're making far too many assumptions. +mp in some situations even if you lose some hp is of the same value to a whm, rdm, smn as it would be for a sch. Notice I keep bolding the word situation. I'm trying to make a point to you.

You start out talking about these different situations and talking about how certain gear is good or bad in those situations and then being so bold as to say you're glad sch's don't have access to zenith because some idiot might choose to choose to use that gear poorly in a situation. That's like saying "I'm so glad we don't have access to Wyrmal gear because some idiot might actually wear W hands full time even when nuking!" oh the horrors!

While you're at it, why don't you go post on Kaeko's blog and lecture him about wearing Dalmatica in his standing macro. I'm sure he would love to hear how you consider him an idiot because he choose to use it in that situation. No, you certainly would not do that would you?

I've learned over time to avoid making posts on forums because people like you are so closed minded I end up having to explain in great detail and argue out something pointless. You took what I said out of context and blew it into a big misunderstanding. I stand by my original sentiment that I believe +mp gear to be of value in a Stoneskin macro and that I use +mp where appropriate in all macros to maximize Sch's weak mp pool. It has its uses in certain situations.

I've clarified my opinion, you've stated yours and I don't want to derail what I consider to be a fairly positive thread about Scholar. So don't be surprised if I don't respond to whatever flame post you got coming up.

[Ultimagi]

If you're running out of MP, either you're not managing it properly, or you're having to spam Cure someone who doesn't deserve it, and you should probably let them die. MP gear is useless, in my opinion.

[Elipse]

So your argument is "Don't bother to make maximum use of the tools are your disposal because if you actually need all that, then someone is probably screwing up, so let em die. Therefore, mp gear is useless in my opinion"

[Ultimagi]

There are much more useful stats to equip than MP in any slot. It's not worth wasting the inventory space on it unless you're also using it for a Red Mage convert setup, and only for when your MP is full. But in my experience, people who wear MP gear wear it full time, which is just wrong.

[The Blackrose]

There are much more useful stats to equip than MP in any slot. It's not worth wasting the inventory space on it unless you're also using it for a Red Mage convert setup, and only for when your MP is full. But in my experience, people who wear MP gear wear it full time, which is just wrong.

Did you not see how many times he bolded the word situational? Hell, coming out of a resting period I usually swap in a bevy of +MP gear to utilize a larger pool right off the bat. Some of it may be lost if the first spell I cast happens to be a Stoneskin or a nuke, but if it's a spell where I don't need to swap out particular pieces, the additional MP can help in a pinch.

He's not saying he's full timing shit. Stop assuming.

P.S. It's a valid question Elipse, and I'd like to know the answer too.

[Elipse]

P.S. It's a valid question Elipse, and I'd like to know the answer too.

Which question?