Scholar Discussion #3 (post March patch)

[The Blackrose]

Does this mean if I wear an ether ring it won't affect sublimation?

This one.

I've always been under the assumption that Sublimation checks against the current modified HP that you have, not your base HP pool. I'm interested to see if it acts differently in respect to both -HP/+MP and HP to MP (obviously wiki says the latter has no effect). Worth something looking into when I get home.

[Elipse]

This one.

I've always been under the assumption that Sublimation checks against the current modified HP that you have, not your base HP pool. I'm interested to see if it acts differently in respect to both -HP/+MP and HP to MP (obviously wiki says the latter has no effect). Worth something looking into when I get home.

I tested this cause no one answered.

-HP affects sublimation
Converts HP to MP does not.

So you can wear ether ring, serket ring, dark grip etc and it won't change your sublimation. I don't know how this works in combination with +hp gear at the same time as converts hp to mp but I suspect it still won't affect things.

[Shin Volcano]

This is what I said: "I use Af1 pants and I prefer it over mahatma slops because of the additional 20mp. I use things like Goliard body and even using hierarch belt. In all my macros I attempt to maximize the mp I maintain with sch cause the mp pool is weak. If I had AF+1 pants, I would likely replace the Omega ring in my stoneskin macro for an ether ring for a little more max mp."

This all started cause I made a comment about maximizing my mp in macros where you don't need any other stat. I also said Ether ring which is "Converts" hp and not "-hp" which means it has 0 effect on sublimation. I never said I wish for Zenith so I could lower my hp as much as possible and get myself killed. So don't talk about people being idiots for wanting Zenith gear simply because you lack flexibility to see that it could be great gear in some situations.

I talked about a situation (casting stoneskin) as all gear is situational. I never talked about during cures or performing other activities, we have macros for such things. What does -enmity have to do with anything I said about stoneskin? For the record I wear my novia earring while casting stoneskin and slot in -enmity where possible in other spots.

I also made a point that you're comment about -hp is short sighted. I was not making the point to say that -hp is good, but saying that its not always bad as long as the +mp or whatever else you gain in return is of value in that situation.

You're making far too many assumptions. +mp in some situations even if you lose some hp is of the same value to a whm, rdm, smn as it would be for a sch. Notice I keep bolding the word situation. I'm trying to make a point to you.

You start out talking about these different situations and talking about how certain gear is good or bad in those situations and then being so bold as to say you're glad sch's don't have access to zenith because some idiot might choose to choose to use that gear poorly in a situation. That's like saying "I'm so glad we don't have access to Wyrmal gear because some idiot might actually wear W hands full time even when nuking!" oh the horrors!

While you're at it, why don't you go post on Kaeko's blog and lecture him about wearing Dalmatica in his standing macro. I'm sure he would love to hear how you consider him an idiot because he choose to use it in that situation. No, you certainly would not do that would you?

I've learned over time to avoid making posts on forums because people like you are so closed minded I end up having to explain in great detail and argue out something pointless. You took what I said out of context and blew it into a big misunderstanding. I stand by my original sentiment that I believe +mp gear to be of value in a Stoneskin macro and that I use +mp where appropriate in all macros to maximize Sch's weak mp pool. It has its uses in certain situations.

I've clarified my opinion, you've stated yours and I don't want to derail what I consider to be a fairly positive thread about Scholar. So don't be surprised if I don't respond to whatever flame post you got coming up.

Read the post again carefully, otherwise i'm not even going to bother responding to stupidy,

COMMON sense would tell you it's situational, Because standing around gear means so much. if i said somthing that made no sense and was thrown way out of porportion i woudlnt respond either. i know full well about starting MP gear, because i do it on WHM, i'll explain it to your degree of Intellegence.

-HP to mp gear is bad when fighting, that should be so simple a caveman could do it...

[Acturus]

Read the post again carefully, otherwise i'm not even going to bother responding to stupidy,

COMMON sense would tell you it's situational, Because standing around gear means so much.

Reading is FUNdamental:

This all started cause I made a comment about maximizing my mp in macros where you don't need any other stat.

[Shin Volcano]

Reading is FUNdamental:

Indeed it is.

-HP to mp gear is bad when fighting, that should be so simple a caveman could do it...

[Ultimagi]

MP is no bigger a problem for me as sch then it is for any other mage, never felt i needed to sacrafice MY hp for a few extra MP that is gone in one spell and tends to be over priced.

This.
Town or idle is not a situational use of gear. MP's usefulness is at 100% only. If you want to waste your time, money, and inventory space on 1 spell, which is inefficient because of the stats you're missing by wearing the MP gear anyway, go ahead.

[Kaeko]

There are more important pieces of gear you could add to your inventory than HP>MP pieces. Inventory space is precious. You do want to max your MP in 'useless' slots like Elipse said. I'll try to increase max HP as well for idle sublimation, I just won't 'spend' gear slots to increase either.

Max MP can be useful for BLM soloing to get a 'free nuke' at the start of a solo. This is a bit more difficult on SCH, however, due to lack of zenith gear and the fact that BLM carries this stuff around anyways for Sorc Ring proc many times, whereas SCH does not (thus costing SCH gear slots to do this).

In the end, the question isn't if something is situationally useful (it usually is) - the question is is it situationally useful enough to warrant inventory slots.

[Yugl]

If he wants to use his gil for that purpose then so be it. It's not a bad idea to have a 100% MP gear set since if you manage to pack enough MP, you can cast an essentially "free" spell. For example:

P1: Stat+ gear, but only 500 MP
P2: No Stat+ Gear, but 700 MP

P2 can cast Thunder IV (Granted, a very GIMP Thunder IV) and have roughly the same amount of MP as P1. P1 casting the same spell would do more damage (And maybe not get resisted), but will have ~330 MP if no Conserve MP kicks in. P2 on the other hand will have ~530 MP and can at that point change to stat+ gear.

It's more inefficient for nukes, but for Cures on SCH it's not that bad considering most SCHs go full -Enmity gear and the first cure shouldn't get you hate anyways.

[Shin Volcano]

It boils down to for examples:

Astral ring+serket ring,+astral earring, lets say

Astrral ring 200k Serket ring 500k astral earring 450k = 1.1 mil rounded off and 3 spaces wasted, cast Protect or cure IV, change to better gear OH all that money and space is now wasted. + the -100 HP and when you switch back, if you choose to cure your self, you just used more MP negating that +MP you just invested in altho that may not be a big deal, in some cases it will hurt, with surprise aoes or anything that you may not have expected.

But you are right, if this what people choose to do, that is all them, with full SCH set, im ussualy sitting at 65-68 out of 70 based on actual gear that is usefull at the time i need it, so i for one wouldn't think of wasting any gill on High priced +MP gear that will be useful for 5 seconds, that's just me tho.

My point is, is that space and gill invested worth that extra MP that's gone after an accession +anything?

[Elipse]

It boils down to for examples:

Astral ring+serket ring,+astral earring, lets say

Astrral ring 200k Serket ring 500k astral earring 450k = 1.1 mil rounded off and 3 spaces wasted, cast Protect or cure IV, change to better gear OH all that money and space is now wasted. + the -100 HP and when you switch back, if you choose to cure your self, you just used more MP negating that +MP you just invested in altho that may not be a big deal, in some cases it will hurt, with surprise aoes or anything that you may not have expected.

But you are right, if this what people choose to do, that is all them, with full SCH set, im usualy sitting at 65-68 out of 70 based on actual gear that is usefull at the time i need it, so i for one wouldn't think of wasting any gill on High priced +MP gear that will be useful for 5 seconds, that's just me tho.

My point is, is that space and gill invested worth that extra MP that's gone after an accession +anything?

So now the argument is about the gil cost of items I didn't even mention? are you even listening to yourself? No one mentioned any of the pieces you did. I mentioned Goliard Body, Hierarch Belt and an Ether ring. The ether ring I already have cause of Blm sorc ring macro, the other two pieces I already carry on Sch.

Also, I didn't even mention having a -hp setup for +mp set while standing around.... talk about jumping to conclusions. I said adding mp in macros where other stats are not necessary or available. I can get 350 dmg stoneskin while adding a significant amount of mp from gear I already carry. The primary purpose as I stated originally is so you don't get up from resting, hit stoneskin and lose 150mp cause you didn't set up your stoneskin macro well... like using mahatma slops instead of scholar's pants. Which was the example that brought this entire topic up in the first place.

This argument about wasting slots as if you can't make room based on the situation is weak. Every event and situation will require different sets of gear. For example, I don't go into Dynamis as the tank party main cure with all my obi's. Wtf do I need my ice obi for when I'm main curing a tank party? Same as I don't use my Blm sorc macro in dynamis when my main task is crowd control.

You just said its got a use, just not a very big one. I certainly won't argue with that. I never said it was the most useful thing in the world. I said Sch has a weak mp pool and I try to maximize my mp in macros where possible without sacrificing the task at hand. My contention with you argument is that its based upon assumptions. Please stop making assumptions.

[Shin Volcano]

So now the argument is about the gil cost of items I didn't even mention? are you even listening to yourself? No one mentioned any of the pieces you did. I mentioned Goliard Body, Hierarch Belt and an Ether ring. The ether ring I already have cause of Blm sorc ring macro, the other two pieces I already carry on Sch.

Who the hell said this was a argument? in fact, who even said it was directed at you, did you even read and understand the word EXAMPLE ??? and since when do you need an astral ring for blm sorc macro, i'v hit the 75% hp marc without it...or even Z legs for that matter, which is another gill waster, but that's beside the point.

Also, I didn't even mention having a -hp setup for +mp set while standing around.... talk about jumping to conclusions. I said adding mp in macros where other stats are not necessary or available. I can get 350 dmg stoneskin while adding a significant amount of mp from gear I already carry. The primary purpose as I stated originally is so you don't get up from resting, hit stoneskin and lose 150mp cause you didn't set up your stoneskin macro well... like using mahatma slops instead of scholar's pants. Which was the example that brought this entire topic up in the first place.

Why do you need all that +MP so you don't lose 150 mp.. the smarter thing to do is to have Sublimation comeplte ready. before you acttualy start buffing. so after all that stoneskin+blink and protect etc, you can just get all that MP back without resting. i don't know what kind of sets you using pal..

This argument about wasting slots as if you can't make room based on the situation is weak. Every event and situation will require different sets of gear. For example, I don't go into Dynamis as the tank party main cure with all my obi's. Wtf do I need my ice obi for when I'm main curing a tank party? Same as I don't use my Blm sorc macro in dynamis when my main task is crowd control.

Hmm.. i'v found ice obi quite useful when the blms are busy or dead and a thf mob PDs or a pld mob Invicible and switch to nuke it.. since Ice spells get least resited, then switch back to light arts with a light obi with auroura storm to negate the dark weather in dynamis, to keep curing and supporting, i don't carry all obis, just the ones i know i'll use,..and in some cases, spells are stronger then thunder and ice (sometimes) if you use them on the correct day, not everything is solved by 1-2 elements only, maybe you are unfamilir with Situation changes..

You just said its got a use, just not a very big one. I certainly won't argue with that. I never said it was the most useful thing in the world. I said Sch has a weak mp pool and I try to maximize my mp in macros where possible without sacrificing the task at hand. My contention with you argument is that its based upon assumptions. Please stop making assumptions.

It's you who is assuming, i am fully aware of SCHs MP pool, but i also said if done right, it really shouldn't be a problem..to warrent needing +MP gear. i don't know what you are whining about.

My primary thing that all these posts are trying to say so maybe you don't come back with unusual posts throwing what i said in the air...There are ways to control MP, you don't need all that +MP gear if you use it that is FINE i'm not saying if you use it your a comeplete dumb ass it's your choice, where i think you got mixed up is when i said PEOPLE USE IT the wrong way, such as full timing things like Z slacks on whm or astral rings thru there spells instead of - Enmity or MND or in SCHs case wearing - HP items when they use sublimation (Yes, i have seen people do this) SCH is a Situaonal job and a damn good one, because no matter what happens, they have ways to work with it, instead of hitting a dead end. i am really not trying to argu...but where i come from i am surrounded by dumb players so bad schs and retarded sets up are very common for me to see. If any of what i said seems to offensive that is not my intention, maybe my posts were a bit aggressive.

[Eldelphia]

I really don't have the invent to carry around a max MP set for SCH. I have pieces which I look at longingly sometimes which stay in my MH because I don't have the room and our MP efficiency is somewhat awesome.

[Magicide]

A MaxMP set that only gives you 150mp is for chumps. With mine, in full MP gear w/no food I have 941mp. In my MaxMAB gear I have 650. 291mp difference. With a Morgana's Choker, Blue Cape +1, Serket Ring, and a few random pieces (combined with the -20mp on the Gleeman's Cape) this isn't that hard to do. Combine that with a tiered spellcast setup that scales down my gear as I use MP, and you've got a beast of soloing efficiency. Yes, the first few nukes are in sub-optimal gear, but against regular mobs this isn't much of an issue, and IMO it's practically a necessity for an Elvaan like me in any endurance solo situation. Pooh-pooh it if you want - I'm a pretty effective soloer.

[Ultimagi]

Yes, between Intelligence, Mind, Elemental, Enfeebling, Dark, Enhancing, Obis, 10 Staves, and 9 Grips, I just don't have enough space for MP gear.

Elipse seems to think we're attacking him for using it, but he isn't reading the quantifiers like "in my opinion", "for example", and "most people".

[Xanthe]

Regarding Sublimation, -HP, and Convert HP to MP gear, here is the best way I've found to explain it. Sublimation stores up to 25% of max HP (mHP) as long as current HP (cHP) is greater than 50%. Items with -HP directly subtract from your max HP, the denominator in the cHP/mHP fraction as well as lower the cap on your cHP, the numerator. In contrast, while items that convert HP to MP visibly lower your mHP, they effectively do nothing to your mHP when calculations are concerned. In this case they only lower the cap on your cHP.

Example:

- You have a base HP of 1000/1000 and base MP of 1000/1000 yielding a full sublimation return of 250.
- Equipping Rostrum Pumps will change your totals to 970/970 and 1030/1030, a max sublimation return of 242.
- Equipping an Ether Ring will change your visible totals to 970/970 and 1030/1030 like above, but your calculation totals will be considered 970/1000 and 1030/1030, giving a sublimation return of 250 like in the neutral case.

The only case that Convert HP to MP gear would have a negative effect on your Sublimation returns is if it regularly allows your cHP to fall below 50% of your unconverted mHP. This would require a large amount of convert gear however and shouldn't really be an issue.

[Lyramion]

Regarding Sublimation, -HP, and Convert HP to MP gear, here is the best way I've found to explain it. Sublimation stores up to 25% of max HP (mHP) as long as current HP (cHP) is greater than 50%. Items with -HP directly subtract from your max HP, the denominator in the cHP/mHP fraction as well as lower the cap on your cHP, the numerator. In contrast, while items that convert HP to MP visibly lower your mHP, they effectively do nothing to your mHP when calculations are concerned. In this case they only lower the cap on your cHP.

Also in the opposite direction: Cassie Earring wont work in increasing your Sublimation potency. Too bad.

[Shin Volcano]

Regarding Sublimation, -HP, and Convert HP to MP gear, here is the best way I've found to explain it. Sublimation stores up to 25% of max HP (mHP) as long as current HP (cHP) is greater than 50%. Items with -HP directly subtract from your max HP, the denominator in the cHP/mHP fraction as well as lower the cap on your cHP, the numerator. In contrast, while items that convert HP to MP visibly lower your mHP, they effectively do nothing to your mHP when calculations are concerned. In this case they only lower the cap on your cHP.

Example:

- You have a base HP of 1000/1000 and base MP of 1000/1000 yielding a full sublimation return of 250.
- Equipping Rostrum Pumps will change your totals to 970/970 and 1030/1030, a max sublimation return of 242.
- Equipping an Ether Ring will change your visible totals to 970/970 and 1030/1030 like above, but your calculation totals will be considered 970/1030 and 1030/1030, giving a sublimation return of 250 like in the neutral case.

The only case that Convert HP to MP gear would have a negative effect on your Sublimation returns is if it regularly allows your cHP to fall below 50% of your unconverted mHP. This would require a large amount of convert gear however and shouldn't really be an issue.

That's a very nice way of explaning it, Wish people did it more, but alot of SCH gear comes with +MP, our choices are farily limited besides goliard. which ones like the body gives a good boost of hp and MP, if they EVER gave morrigans set to sch that opens up huge options..

But as even others have just stated, there is simply no room to carry +mp gear, assuming you carry the right sets and thus i don't personaly ever see a need for it.

But in sublimation before starting, you can equip things like bomb queen ring which does help it. and gigant mantle, but i don't recommend it unless you can afford it.

[Ratatapa]

/sigh any trick to convince JP to sell Limbus item?

Been sitting in Temenos for 3 days with comment saying

Scholar Item Sell? /tell please reward 100000gil

i even went up to 200k.

JP refuse to help while NA says their members need (which is fine)

[Yugl]

/sigh any trick to convince JP to sell Limbus item?

Been sitting in Temenos for 3 days with comment saying

Scholar Item Sell? /tell please reward 100000gil

i even went up to 200k.

JP refuse to help while NA says their members need (which is fine)

Why JP ONLY?

[Scholar] no [Artifact] wo urimasuka?

That might be better, but it won't mean shit if they have members in need.

[Ratatapa]

why JP? simple, when NA does their run i'm in LS events