March 10th PUP WS testing~

[Jkun]

Really didn't think it needed to be nerfed that hard, I'd honestly have been cool if it was capped at like 3k or so. 2k seems a little lame for that much prep work.

2k? That's if you're fucking lucky as hell. It's now once again the most useless WS. Thanks SE. 8D

[miokomioko]

Keep in mind that maximizing Magic Mortar damage to even be used more than once (right at the start) is next to impossible on mobs like King Behemoth, Fafnir, Nidhogg, Tiamat, Vrtra, Jormungand, Ouryu, Kirin, Absolute Virtue, and insert every other HNM in the game other than Jailer of Love.

This nerf was entirely uncalled for. I finally found a comfy little spot in an ally for one single endgame raid, and they wasted no time pulling the rug from under our feet.

[Gaea]

Yeah Jkun's right. As far as DD you can get better DoT with the Ranger puppet and without the prep. Even Valor with Cannibal Blade would make more sense than this. It's a nice little WS for making Light with solo Soulsoother or Stormwaker, but you might as well not bother with the whole Valorwaker HP build with Inhibitor now and just close the SC yourself when it fires it at 100%. Occasionally you might see a decent number if your puppet recently converted. >.>

I'm sure we can thank all the Dark Knights and Samurais that cried foul in the SE suggestion box. It was probably mostly Rune Chopper DRKs upset about the 80% haste cap.

[Jkun]

Bone Crusher > Decimation and also Asuran Fists makes light now (according to the WAR and MNK I forced to try skillchains on lol), and seems more consistent and reasonable to use since your puppet won't die right after. Even Sharpshot is a pain in the fucking ass to keep alive after Armor Piercer.

Mioko's also right, I can't believe the one time we had to shine was just taken away. You know, because not like it took around 15 mins to prep, any amount of skill, or perfect timing to pull off.

Yet, a meat-headed kraken DRK can engage, hit two macros and deal incredible amounts of damage in 30 seconds? This doesn't fly with me, SE. It also makes me wonder if they really do play their own game, or just troll BG and JP sites all day long, taking out anything that's too powerful. But even then, that makes no sense at half the shit the playerbase gets away with.

Oh well, at least I can tick another reason off the list of things I want to quit FF for :3 It's getting big!

[Millael]

Yet, a meat-headed kraken DRK can engage, hit two macros and deal incredible amounts of damage in 30 seconds?

Uh... you're really comparing a 2hr zerg (admittedly overpowered, but fuck, you really only rationally do it once every 2 hours) requiring millions upon millions of gil and fun gear and all that stuff to something the average puppetmaster can pull off with a couple of merits and a couple of attachments? I'm sorry, but your complaints here, at the very least, seem a bit excessive. Plus, it still does 2k capped as opposed to 4k (more realistically 1k on HNM), and you don't have to blow a 2hr wad to do so. You haven't been nerfed into oblivion, just pulled a bit down to earth.

[Bagel]

Bone Crusher > Decimation and also Asuran Fists makes light now (according to the WAR and MNK I forced to try skillchains on lol)

I'm assuming you mean Asuran Fists > Bone Crusher is Frag?

[miokomioko]

Yet, a meat-headed kraken DRK can engage, hit two macros and deal incredible amounts of damage in 30 seconds?

Uh... you're really comparing a 2hr zerg (admittedly overpowered, but fuck, you really only rationally do it once every 2 hours) requiring millions upon millions of gil and fun gear and all that stuff to something the average puppetmaster can pull off with a couple of merits and a couple of attachments? I'm sorry, but your complaints here, at the very least, seem a bit excessive. Plus, it still does 2k capped as opposed to 4k (more realistically 1k on HNM), and you don't have to blow a 2hr wad to do so. You haven't been nerfed into oblivion, just pulled a bit down to earth.

Souleater + Kraken Club can happen every 6 minutes.

[Jkun]

Yet, a meat-headed kraken DRK can engage, hit two macros and deal incredible amounts of damage in 30 seconds?

Uh... you're really comparing a 2hr zerg (admittedly overpowered, but fuck, you really only rationally do it once every 2 hours) requiring millions upon millions of gil and fun gear and all that stuff to something the average puppetmaster can pull off with a couple of merits and a couple of attachments? I'm sorry, but your complaints here, at the very least, seem a bit excessive. Plus, it still does 2k capped as opposed to 4k (more realistically 1k on HNM), and you don't have to blow a 2hr wad to do so. You haven't been nerfed into oblivion, just pulled a bit down to earth.

Yes, I know, I had a little tantrum, and you may be right, but that still doesn't mean the game is as balanced as SE think it is, lol. No hate involved since I'm also a kraken zerg DRK, but there's so many other jobs that can pull off 1.5k~ per WS a lot faster and a lot more safer than PUP. (Hell I do it every merit party on my other two jobs!). Sure we haven't been as shafted as previous jobs in the past, but I still see this as pretty uncalled for.

Plus as Mioko said, which HNM could it possibly be useful on without dying from AOE? On stuff like KB, Aspid, I'm pretty sure I'd rather stick with Spirit/waker and do more consistent, decent nukes than chance it.

Also Bagel, I'm not quite sure about that one, since I was R0ing at the time, I saw E100 do Bone crusher before Asuran and then light went off, but we had a BLU too that coulda done something in between the lag. :<

Still, seems all 3 new WSs close or open light and dark, at least.

[Millael]

Yet, a meat-headed kraken DRK can engage, hit two macros and deal incredible amounts of damage in 30 seconds?

Uh... you're really comparing a 2hr zerg (admittedly overpowered, but fuck, you really only rationally do it once every 2 hours) requiring millions upon millions of gil and fun gear and all that stuff to something the average puppetmaster can pull off with a couple of merits and a couple of attachments? I'm sorry, but your complaints here, at the very least, seem a bit excessive. Plus, it still does 2k capped as opposed to 4k (more realistically 1k on HNM), and you don't have to blow a 2hr wad to do so. You haven't been nerfed into oblivion, just pulled a bit down to earth.

Souleater + Kraken Club can happen every 6 minutes.

Yeah, but without BW, it requires rather immense curebombing of the DRK to actually keep him alive. The same is not true about the puppetmaster. Not to mention the DRK more than likely taking hate and dying once Dread Spikes wears off, or the gargantuan TP feed.

[Jkun]

Yet, a meat-headed kraken DRK can engage, hit two macros and deal incredible amounts of damage in 30 seconds?

Uh... you're really comparing a 2hr zerg (admittedly overpowered, but fuck, you really only rationally do it once every 2 hours) requiring millions upon millions of gil and fun gear and all that stuff to something the average puppetmaster can pull off with a couple of merits and a couple of attachments? I'm sorry, but your complaints here, at the very least, seem a bit excessive. Plus, it still does 2k capped as opposed to 4k (more realistically 1k on HNM), and you don't have to blow a 2hr wad to do so. You haven't been nerfed into oblivion, just pulled a bit down to earth.

Souleater + Kraken Club can happen every 6 minutes.

Yeah, but without BW, it requires rather immense curebombing of the DRK to actually keep him alive. The same is not true about the puppetmaster. Not to mention the DRK more than likely taking hate and dying once Dread Spikes wears off, or the gargantuan TP feed.

I actually kraken+Souleater whenever it's up with an allocated WHM at long events like JoL. Never really had a problem with it. Plus, I'm not sure if you know that when the Automaton gets off Magic Mortar, it's also going to die. I mean it only has what, 6 or 7 HP and you can't directly cure it. Plus add onto the fact Activate will be at 10-15 mins on recast which is way more useless than a 6 min Souleater.

[Asura_Zilla]

Yeah Jkun's right. As far as DD you can get better DoT with the Ranger puppet and without the prep. Even Valor with Cannibal Blade would make more sense than this. It's a nice little WS for making Light with solo Soulsoother or Stormwaker, but you might as well not bother with the whole Valorwaker HP build with Inhibitor now and just close the SC yourself when it fires it at 100%. Occasionally you might see a decent number if your puppet recently converted. >.>

I'm sure we can thank all the Dark Knights and Samurais that cried foul in the SE suggestion box. It was probably mostly Rune Chopper DRKs upset about the 80% haste cap.

Pretty sure it was all the SAMs QQing about their Haguns not being more overpowered than they already are. Cause allowing yourself to self-SC isn't, and neither is being able to do a 6?-step SC alone.

[miokomioko]

Yet, a meat-headed kraken DRK can engage, hit two macros and deal incredible amounts of damage in 30 seconds?

Uh... you're really comparing a 2hr zerg (admittedly overpowered, but fuck, you really only rationally do it once every 2 hours) requiring millions upon millions of gil and fun gear and all that stuff to something the average puppetmaster can pull off with a couple of merits and a couple of attachments? I'm sorry, but your complaints here, at the very least, seem a bit excessive. Plus, it still does 2k capped as opposed to 4k (more realistically 1k on HNM), and you don't have to blow a 2hr wad to do so. You haven't been nerfed into oblivion, just pulled a bit down to earth.

Souleater + Kraken Club can happen every 6 minutes.

Yeah, but without BW, it requires rather immense curebombing of the DRK to actually keep him alive. The same is not true about the puppetmaster. Not to mention the DRK more than likely taking hate and dying once Dread Spikes wears off, or the gargantuan TP feed.

The risks are pretty equal. Large damage, high risk of death. The only real difference I see here is that the DRK can survive some hits while an automaton -will- die from any AoE tp move or spell let alone a single hit. Raise III the DRK and he's ready to go again 5 minutes later. PUP? Completely useless for ~15 minutes until Activate is ready... THEN PREP ALL OVER AGAIN.

I saw it coming, but I was just hoping SE developers would have a bigger heart than that and see how this was the job's only endgame alliance opportunity outside of something like Assault/Salvage. The large numbers looked broken, but the prep time, the risk, the lack of situations where it could be used were all the reason it was not, in fact, broken. Yeah, I did 3% of JoL's hp in one hit, but my pet was dead before the WS animation even showed up. DRKs were rotating in doing similar damage and staying alive (yep, without blood weapon).

[Guitarman]

I actually kraken+Souleater whenever it's up with an allocated WHM at long events like JoL. Never really had a problem with it. Plus, I'm not sure if you know that when the Automaton gets off Magic Mortar, it's also going to die. I mean it only has what, 6 or 7 HP and you can't directly cure it. Plus add onto the fact Activate will be at 10-15 mins on recast which is way more useless than a 6 min Souleater.

KC + whm or rdm chainspell curebombing = at least 2 dead players. By time both get up, unweakened, yeah its about the same time you can redeploy your auto.

I may be just another "meathead DRK", but i was actually rooting for you guys/girls and your MM damage. Whatever helps get the mob dead quicker is ok in my book. I think alot of people dont realize that nerfs to a specific job hurts them as well in that way. I spent 7 hours in kuftal soloing my greataxe of trials, then went and got steel cyclone, and the next day the haste cap was put in place...so yeah, i have a little bit of an understanding why the /hate toward SE. Though your nerf was more damaging than mine. Gotta :nikkei: SE.

[miokomioko]

KC + whm or rdm chainspell curebombing = at least 2 dead players. By time both get up, unweakened, yeah its about the same time you can redeploy your auto.

Um... try over triple (maybe even quadruple) the recovery time to activate again and then prep down to double-digit HP.

Not to mention Souleater + Kraken DRKs + a mage curebombing does not = 2 dead players. At JoL, we rotate souleatering DRKs with (before haste nerf) Apocolypse, Kraken Clubs, Bahamut Zags, etc... When the rest of the LS is there randomly tossing out cures (more specifically the RDMs that are tanking). There's no deaths at all 90% of the time.

JoL is the only example here because there's few if any other opportunities where Magic Mortar really shined apart from a one-time-use thing because of its lack of AoE damage when positioned correctly.

[Delekii]

IF a drk and their healer dies, it is still vastly quicker to recover damage dealing capability from than a dead automaton. Furthermore, the damage potential on a single case basis for a drk is much higher than for a pup

[Jaybar]

Best get off the subject of comparing PUP to DRK before this shit gets locked ;x

Yes it's a shame that the damage is reduced, but it's not a "We reduced your H2H skills" nerf. MM was definitely a one-shot Prize because try doing that again within a minute; you won't in normal conditions.

Armor Piercer is the fall-back, now?

[Khamsin]

Best get off the subject of comparing PUP to DRK before this shit gets locked ;x

I should lock this thread just at the notion of DRK being better. Obviously, PUPs are so good that SE had to nerf them lest we form routine AV zergs and flood the server with sashes.

But yeah, let's try not to lose sight of the topic, or do we need to add "vs. PUP" to the "Meat vs. Sushi / War vs. Mnk vs. Nin / CoP vs ToAU / DRK" thread?

[Gaea]

Might as well take the "[Now with added AV Speculation!]" out of the thread topic

[Jkun]

Might as well take the "[Now with added AV Speculation!]" out of the thread topic

I was gonna but...looks like a mod beat me to it. Fuckin' with my OP D:< /fist. I take pride in my topics!

[Jones]

Maybe they can mod it to [Now with more hopes and dreams crushed...]?