March 10th PUP WS testing~

[miokomioko]

What's everyone doing to force this WS with fire maneuvers up rather than having it close skillchain with inhibitor? Would attuner be any good to use with this?

Hand-to-hand Automatons default to Magic Mortar. As long as your "elemental burden's" highest element isn't Lightning or Wind, it will use Magic Mortar. So, Fire Maneuver doesn't affect it in a bad way. The only reason to use Fire Maneuvers in a setup for Magic Mortar damage would be for Inhibitor so it will StoreTP up to 300% faster and not use a weaponskill unless a skillchain that it can close is opened on the mob it is engaged on. Also, for Fire Holder which will increase Magic Mortar damage by 100% per Fire Maneuver "eaten" by Fire Holder. I highly doubt any attack/crit/mab/magacc affects Magic Mortar since it's pretty much an inverse Spirits Within, with the capability of closing a skillchain and the capability of doing quadruple damage with 3 Fire Maneuvers active and Fire Holder attachment equipped.

Maximum Magic Mortar damage setup is as follows:

Puppetmaster:
100%+ TP (open light sc with dragon kick)

Gem Sainti (automaton hp boost)
Animator +1 (automaton hp boost)
Puppetry Tobe (automaton hp boost)



Automaton:
1 HP (lower hp = higher dmg)
0 MP (keep from curing itself)
300% TP (larger ws multiplyer for dmg)

Harlequin Body (best h2h melee skill and hp combo)
Soulsoother Head (light capacity for hp attachments)

Auto-repair Kit (hp boost)
Auto-repair Kit II (hp boost)
Inhibitor (store tp to 300% & close light sc)
Fire Holder (quad damage)
Heatsink (reduce fire overload)
Mana Booster (waste mp faster)
Stealth Screen (reduce enmity)
Damage Gauge (waste mp faster)
Target Marker (store tp faster)
Turbo Charger (store tp faster)
Schurzen (save its life and leave it with 1 hp)


1) Waste all Automaton MP
2) Drop Automaton HP down to 1
3) Store Automaton TP up to 300%
4) Store own TP to at least 100%
5) Apply 3 Fire Maneuvers
6) Deploy
7) Dragon Kick
8) Watch the mob take 8000~11000 damage
9) Ventriloquy
10) Repeat if you're not dead
11) ???
12) NERF

[Stanislaw]

Your setup looks good Miokomiko, but I would change one thing:

Harlequin Body (best h2h melee skill and hp combo)
Soulsoother Head (light capacity for hp attachments)

Personally I would go for Valoredge Head instead of Soulsoother. It will give the Automaton far less MP (it'll run out of MP after doing Cure IV 3 times so you can take Mana Booster and Damage Gauge out for some other attachment) and in addition will provide more Fire and Thunder capacity to put more Attack+/Accuracy+ attachments on the Automaton while still having enough Light capacity to stick both Auto-Repair Kits on to boost Max HP. I also believe that by putting Valoredge Head on the Harlequin Body it gives an additional 10 melee skill, yes? So with max Automaton Melee Skill merits you can bring the Automaton's Melee skill up to 260, and with enough Thunder Capacity to stick Target Maker + Heat Seeker + Stabilizer (or Target Maker + Stabilizer II) your Automaton's accuracy will increase, and higher accuracy = faster TP gain = more damage over time.

[Guitarman]

Nerf..... PUP?

Divide by 0, etc etc.

Farking awesome damages. Nice to see the job can whip out some huge ass numbers. Seeing screens like this definately gives me new respect for the job. I would probably delete all the evidence though. Zam gets ahold of this they'll scream for a nerf and for some reason (lord knows why) SE listens to them. Here comes the nerfbat!

[Jkun]

Your setup looks good Miokomiko, but I would change one thing:

Harlequin Body (best h2h melee skill and hp combo)
Soulsoother Head (light capacity for hp attachments)

Personally I would go for Valoredge Head instead of Soulsoother. It will give the Automaton far less MP (it'll run out of MP after doing Cure IV 3 times so you can take Mana Booster and Damage Gauge out for some other attachment) and in addition will provide more Fire and Thunder capacity to put more Attack+/Accuracy+ attachments on the Automaton while still having enough Light capacity to stick both Auto-Repair Kits on to boost Max HP. I also believe that by putting Valoredge Head on the Harlequin Body it gives an additional 10 melee skill, yes? So with max Automaton Melee Skill merits you can bring the Automaton's Melee skill up to 260, and with enough Thunder Capacity to stick Target Maker + Heat Seeker + Stabilizer (or Target Maker + Stabilizer II) your Automaton's accuracy will increase, and higher accuracy = faster TP gain = more damage over time.

^
Exactly what I do. Down to the very last word, lol.

[Gaea]

Thanks. The only thing I didn't have time to test was trying it without inhibitor because Light was so fun. I wasn't sure if it would prefer to do something else

Only thing I don't have is the Animator +1 but I'm working on that. Hopefully next month

Anyone have any idea what skill this is? My friend is trying to get it on his 72 pup but his melee is only around 218 and he still doesnt seem to have it. He didn't get Armor Piercer until like 240+ so I hope it's not that high ><

Has anyone tested to see if MAB influences this? For example alot of people are using valor/harly combo for the melee 260, higher HP, and the higher fire capacity. But full harlequin can wear both loud speakers and mana channeler. I need to farm for Gnat Pellets so I'll probably test this myself sometime today if I get the chance. Two Fires and one Ice would be a bit easier to not overload with than doing 3 fires all the time ^^;

[Jkun]

Thanks. The only thing I didn't have time to test was trying it without inhibitor because Light was so fun. I wasn't sure if it would prefer to do something else

Only thing I don't have is the Animator +1 but I'm working on that. Hopefully next month

Anyone have any idea what skill this is? My friend is trying to get it on his 72 pup but his melee is only around 218 and he still doesnt seem to have it. He didn't get Armor Piercer until like 240+ so I hope it's not that high ><

Has anyone tested to see if MAB influences this? For example alot of people are using valor/harly combo for the melee 260, higher HP, and the higher fire capacity. But full harlequin can wear both loud speakers and mana channeler. I need to farm for Gnat Pellets so I'll probably test this myself sometime today if I get the chance. Two Fires and one Ice would be a bit easier to not overload with than doing 3 fires all the time ^^;

It was mentioned in an earlier post, I think 72+ is right, I can't remember, but I doubt MAB enhances this. If these numbers are without any MAB, with MAB would make it even more broken, lol.

[Sho]

After seeing this thread my girlfriend states:

"In 2008, PUP lols at YOU."

Hi Magic Mortarz!

[Gaea]

Thanks. The only thing I didn't have time to test was trying it without inhibitor because Light was so fun. I wasn't sure if it would prefer to do something else

Only thing I don't have is the Animator +1 but I'm working on that. Hopefully next month

Anyone have any idea what skill this is? My friend is trying to get it on his 72 pup but his melee is only around 218 and he still doesnt seem to have it. He didn't get Armor Piercer until like 240+ so I hope it's not that high ><

Has anyone tested to see if MAB influences this? For example alot of people are using valor/harly combo for the melee 260, higher HP, and the higher fire capacity. But full harlequin can wear both loud speakers and mana channeler. I need to farm for Gnat Pellets so I'll probably test this myself sometime today if I get the chance. Two Fires and one Ice would be a bit easier to not overload with than doing 3 fires all the time ^^;

It was mentioned in an earlier post, I think 72+ is right, I can't remember, but I doubt MAB enhances this. If these numbers are without any MAB, with MAB would make it even more broken, lol.

Well with the harlequin having a couple hundred fewer HP than Valor/Harly it might not be so much as "more" damage but similar damage. If MAB is a factor it gives us more to work with and lowers the burden on fire. I'm not so much as lookiing for "more" damage as I am more dot. It would also give us a reason to have "Ice" slots in the first place on a melee puppet setup. Another question is: Does Ice maker affect this? Far fetched but who knows ;/


I also talked to a GM (Xandamere) and asked if there were any current issues concrning PUP. He said nope, PUP is working as expected. I said even though they can close 12k WS + Light? He said: Yeah

[Gaea]

Not affected by MAB

Puppet had 904 HP in both tests

Both mobs were Rafflesia Near West Saruta Outpost (S)

Zero Ice Maneuvers 100 TP 228 damage

3 Ice maneuvers 100 TP 228 damage

Had both loudspeakers on. That rules out full harley having any advantage I suppose

I'm gonna equip ice maker real quick and see if it eats a maneuver when it weaponskills


EDIT: NOPE

Guess its just Flame Holder, HP missing and TP ^^; Wishful thinking that this would be a great reason to have full harlequin

[miokomioko]

Without optimally low HP, no Animator +1, and no Sainti at all, I was getting 2800~3600-ish Magic Mortars on Jailer of Love.
(fire holder + 3 fire maneuvers @ 300% TP, variations were not from resists, they were from varied HP because my automaton died a few times)

This works super well on this HNM because the tanks' positioning make -ga spells just out of range of anyone meleeing it from the opposite side, and no AoE TP moves are a worry unless a souleatering DRK pulls hate (just retrieve and hang back). Light skillchains seem to be easily resisted down to like 25%ish dmg on this mob unfortunately. Without storing up to 300% TP, Valoredge head + Harlequin body with the typical Magic Mortar setup easily does 1200~1300 dmg every 100% TP with 3 Fire maneuvers up. Heatsink is really nice for this because you can spam Water Maneuvers between WSs to help drop fire burden so you can put 3 Fire Maneuvers back up without overloading. Finally PUPs can do something in endgame.

A problem was the fact that when dropping JoL by like 3% in one shot, my Automaton died before the WS & SC registered in my chatlog... so I didn't really get any good screenshots. Some LS mates got some for me, but I've yet to receive them.

:edit:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h9...8/MandyMM2.jpg

[Toth]

Now that we are aware of the upper limit, I do think it's time we try to work out a setup that does 1k MM damage every 100 tp so that the automaton won't be annihilated after.

[Lordwafik]

I wonder how much % it takes from AV's HP

[Epical]

Anyone have 18 PUPs and a JLo pop set?

[Stanislaw]

Anyone have 18 PUPs and a JLo pop set?

It is common knowledge that if 18 lv75 PUPs gather together at the same place the universe will implode.

[Jkun]

Taking PUP to next JoL I also tried MAB attachments, same results. Who cares though, if we can master this technique, maybe we'll get noticed. If only it worked at full HP, and did 0 at low HP rite? ;o

[Toth]

Q for the people who have done this on the higher NMs:

I tried out a quick run of the trick and just by doing RR, I dropped my automaton to 1103/1569. 2 or 3 Fire Manuevers and 100% yielded me a 787 Magic Mortar. Now if I did this on any NM, would the damage be the same?

[Genosync]

Q for the people who have done this on the higher NMs:

I tried out a quick run of the trick and just by doing RR, I dropped my automaton to 1103/1569. 2 or 3 Fire Manuevers and 100% yielded me a 787 Magic Mortar. Now if I did this on any NM, would the damage be the same?

From everything I've been reading because all this automaton doing retarded amounts of damage infuriates me greatly deep in my soul:

Yes.

as said right above your post:

Without optimally low HP, no Animator +1, and no Sainti at all, I was getting 2800~3600-ish Magic Mortars on Jailer of Love.

And that really should clear it up for you.

Pictures of 2400ish MMs during a Kirin zerg should give you the answer too.

[miokomioko]

Saving up 100tp yourself and 300tp on your automaton for a skillchain Magic Mortar can yield about 4000 damage as well as a potential 500~8000 damage Light skillchain but will immediately result in the death of your automaton unless you are on the fuckin ball and manage to Ventrilloquy and GTFO quick enough, wich is pretty unlikely to be honest because my Automaton was dead from a 1200 damage boosted melee hit before I even saw the animation for Magic Mortar.

Like Toth mentioned, and I mentioned as well, probably the best thing to do realistically and damage output on a mob that won't AoE or hurt anyone up close that's not pulling hate (aka: Jailer of Love, Goldentongue, maybe a small handful of others) is to remove the Inhibitor so it never waits to use Magic Mortar and never uses anything besides Magic Mortar when others are using weaponskills. Inbetween big skillchain attempts for trying to impress the LS and justify the job I came to Jailer of Love on, I just had it meleeing up to 107~115% and with 3 Fire Maneuvers would unleash about 1200~1300 damage ever time. 3/5 Melee Skill merits and Melee Skill capped otherwise, combined with Target Marker and I think Heat Seeker, it's acc was significantly better than mine. Always doing about 15~40 damage per hit with some 60~70 critical hits. Automaton storing TP on Jailer of Love was not an issue whatsoever. My accuracy for using Souleater to bring my HP down and to get 100%+ TP was more of an issue. The only time it drew hate off the 2 RDM/NIN that were tanking was when it did like 4000 damage in one shot.

I think my best was 3600-ish with almost 1000 Light. Other than that, it was consistantly 1200-1300 safe Magic Mortars. It was fun... now to work a little harder for that Animator +1 (6000/15000), try and get some Gem Sainti crafted, and finish those last two melee skill merits. :/

::edit:: can two PUPs get together and store their Automatons to 300% and both Deploy and one use Dragon Kick... I would like to know if every Automaton engaged will try to skillchain with that one Dragon Kick. If so, an alliance of Puppetmasters could easily and literally do about... 70,000~90,000 damage to any single mob in about 3 seconds if they all have 300% with Inhibitor when they see that Dragon Kick being used and proceed to try and Magic Mortar.

Are there even 18 PUPs lv.37+ on any given server?

[TB]

I wonder how much % it takes from AV's HP

And suddenly 18 PUP vs AV is nothing to laugh about anymore. >_>

[LeifofKujata]

Too bad they wouldnt get a chance to MM AV. The nuke deactivate strat was what was mentioned. Even if they did get MM off AV would most likely rape a auto with <60%HP pretty easily before you get deactivate off. To see it would be epic though.