New COR Rolls

[Callisto]

For those who test the new roll values, here's a spot to put them.

Myself and Omgwtfbbqkittin on ffxionline.com got the DNC roll w/o DNC #'s so far, updated otherwiki and will add to BG wiki today, so far DNC roll blows goats, I'll try to get the w/ DNC tonight.

Dancer's Roll
w/o DNC in party

• I - 3HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• II - 4HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• III(lucky) - 11HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• IV - 4HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• V - 5HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• VI - 6HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• VII(unlucky) - 1HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• VIII - 7HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• IX - 8HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• X - 8HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• XI - 14HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]

Dancer's Roll
w/ DNC in party

• I - 6HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• II - 7HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• III(lucky) - 14HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• IV - 7HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• V - 8HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• VI - 9HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• VII(unlucky) - 4HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• VIII - 10HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• IX - 11HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• X - 11HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]
• XI - 17HP/Tick[/*:m:a652yq2j]

[Ferien]

...so far DNC roll blows goats...

Except it's better than a single Paeon for the numbers you'd be stopping at, and beats double Paeons on 3 or 11.

[Callisto]

...so far DNC roll blows goats...

Except it's better than a single Paeon for the numbers you'd be stopping at, and beats double Paeons on 3 or 11.

The effect potency is decent, but the amount of Regen neccesary for it to pump out to make it viable to use it over any of the rolls you'd normally use in a party is pretty massive, we'll see how much w/ DNC adds, if it's a big chunk then it'd be pretty viable for low-man parties with a DNC, or even alternate TP burn setups like DNC COR BRD SAM DDx2, where with strong enough regen and SAM roll the DNC could easily main heal the party and the BRD buffs could still keep the killspeed relatively high.

But the likelihood of me hopping into a standard party and someone saying, "Hey, screw Chaos, can we get Dancer's" is about zero.

[Gergall]

...so far DNC roll blows goats...

Except it's better than a single Paeon for the numbers you'd be stopping at, and beats double Paeons on 3 or 11.

Paeon 5 is 5 + 1(high skill) + 2(instrument) = 8
Paeon 4 is 4 + 1(high skill) + 2(instrument) = 7

That's a total of 15 with no luck involved. It's not fair to compare 2 songs against 1 roll but since you chose to do so, I thought I would show the numbers.

I'm sure adding a DNC to the party will add a nice bonus to the roll.

One good use for party regen is in Mamool Assault 4 where you put on the poisonous costumes to sneak past the NPCs.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Well its not a bad idle spell >_>;

I rarely, if ever, use Paeon other then when we're just standing around waiting.

[Ferien]

...so far DNC roll blows goats...

Except it's better than a single Paeon for the numbers you'd be stopping at, and beats double Paeons on 3 or 11.

Paeon 5 is 5 + 1(high skill) + 2(instrument) = 8
Paeon 4 is 4 + 1(high skill) + 2(instrument) = 7

That's a total of 15 with no luck involved. It's not fair to compare 2 songs against 1 roll but since you chose to do so, I thought I would show the numbers.

I'm sure adding a DNC to the party will add a nice bonus to the roll.

One good use for party regen is in Mamool Assault 4 where you put on the poisonous costumes to sneak past the NPCs.

Aye, forgot about the instrument. In that case it's on average even/slightly better than a single Paeon, and on 11 just 1 point under doubles. Pretty good for a single roll without the job enhancement.

And Callisto, compared to COR's existing rolls, sure DNC blows, but so does Paeon compared to BRD's other rolls. It's unfair to compare DNC roll to DRK, SAM, WAR, THF, etc, just as it's unfair to compare Paeon to Minuet, March, or Madrigal. They both fill the same niche, though, and the roll does it better than the song. Hardly goat-blowing material if you ask me.

[Scorsese]

Well its not a bad idle spell >_>;

I rarely, if ever, use Paeon other then when we're just standing around waiting.

That, or if you're subbing WHM, use Curaga and heal the MP back. But yeah I think I got the most use out of Paeon when I did salvage.

[Callisto]

And Callisto, compared to COR's existing rolls, sure DNC blows, but so does Paeon compared to BRD's other rolls. It's unfair to compare DNC roll to DRK, SAM, WAR, THF, etc, just as it's unfair to compare Paeon to Minuet, March, or Madrigal. They both fill the same niche, though, and the roll does it better than the song. Hardly goat-blowing material if you ask me.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more applications I can think of for using it, although it's a little different than Paeon since you don't have to wait 50+ seconds to apply Min/March/Mad over Paeon...I guess I'm suffering from residual QQ'age about DNC roll not being Haste, lol.

I'm going to plead with a 75 DNC friend to do Campaign Battle with me after Limbus tonight, otherwise if anyone on Ramuh has higher DNC and would be interested in donating time for science let me know...also going to try and get some help confirming BLU roll values this week while I'm at it.

[Callisto]

Ok, just finished up getting DNC roll #'s w/ a DNC in party, not a spectacular boost, just +3/tick to every value:

Dancer's Roll
w/ DNC in party

• I - 6HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• II - 7HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• III(lucky) - 14HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• IV - 7HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• V - 8HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• VI - 9HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• VII(unlucky) - 4HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• VIII - 10HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• IX - 11HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• X - 11HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]
• XI - 17HP/Tick[/*:m:3s6xs6qz]

Thanks to Damaira for the DNCage.

[Lordwafik]

Very nice situational roll. Paeon's always been a situation spell, not a use for exp, so it's stupid to say this roll is dumb because of it (since when do brds use paeon fully over any of their other songs unless the situation calls for it?).

[Kylen]

Dancer's Roll
w/ DNC in party

* I - 6HP/Tick
* II - 7HP/Tick
* III(lucky) - 17HP/Tick
* IV - 7HP/Tick
* V - 8HP/Tick
* VI - 9HP/Tick
* VII(unlucky) - 4HP/Tick
* VIII - 10HP/Tick
* IX - 11HP/Tick
* X - 11HP/Tick
* XI - 17HP/Tick

That's strange... with DNC job bonus, all of the values are 3 hp/tick higher than without, except III which is 6 hp/tick higher. Can anyone else confirm that this is true or untrue before it gets put on the wiki? Every other COR roll adds a fixed job bonus to all outcomes, so it's highly unusual to see the lucky number not only getting a larger bonus, but also being equal to the bonus from XI.

[Callisto]

Dancer's Roll
w/ DNC in party

* I - 6HP/Tick
* II - 7HP/Tick
* III(lucky) - 17HP/Tick
* IV - 7HP/Tick
* V - 8HP/Tick
* VI - 9HP/Tick
* VII(unlucky) - 4HP/Tick
* VIII - 10HP/Tick
* IX - 11HP/Tick
* X - 11HP/Tick
* XI - 17HP/Tick

That's strange... with DNC job bonus, all of the values are 3 hp/tick higher than without, except III which is 6 hp/tick higher. Can anyone else confirm that this is true or untrue before it gets put on the wiki? Every other COR roll adds a fixed job bonus to all outcomes, so it's highly unusual to see the lucky number not only getting a larger bonus, but also being equal to the bonus from XI.

No lol, that's a typo on my part, lucky III is 14/tick. :ashira: I at least typed it correctly on the wiki.

Very nice situational roll. Paeon's always been a situation spell, not a use for exp, so it's stupid to say this roll is dumb because of it (since when do brds use paeon fully over any of their other songs unless the situation calls for it?).

I agree with that to an extent, really the only beef I have with it is there's no cooldown time on knocking off Paeon for other songs, and with DNC roll there's a minimum of around 2 minutes before you can get it off and get fully melee buffed again.

However, I think this will be fun to toy with as my LS likes making really random experimental meripos(like COR RDM DNC DRK BLUx2, one BLU tanking as /WAR lol), so I kind of want to see what we can do with an out-there setup like I said above, COR DNC BRD SAMx2 DD, where you really don't even need a main healer if you can get a consistent 11/tick regen, Drain Samba III, and a few Waltzes here and there, while still having enough DD to keep chains from breaking.

Anyways, I know it's not new but I'm going to try and test Magus' tonight, then Scholar's over the weekend b/c it's going to take a fuckton of time to test.

[Atreides]

i dont suppose anyone's done any testing on scholar's roll yet? i know it's pretty hard to test but any kind of anecdotal stuff would be nice... and what are the lucky/unlucky numbers for it?

[Callisto]

i dont suppose anyone's done any testing on scholar's roll yet? i know it's pretty hard to test but any kind of anecdotal stuff would be nice... and what are the lucky/unlucky numbers for it?

2/6 Lucky/Un...I was hoping to test it this weekend, I have an idea how to, but to really nail down Conserve MP proc %'s you need a big ass sample size, and it'd take a good while to get 1k~ casts done under each roll value.

The only reason I'm testing Magus's first is b/c I think I'll have a BLM and a BLU willing to help me with it tonight, if they don't I'll start working on the w/o SCH #'s.

[Callisto]

Copypasta of my post on ffxionline.com, not super happy with the results but I did sit and take the time to test Magus' Roll

Sat down last night in PvP to test BLU Roll, here's what I came up with, verification would help if anyone feels like taking the time b/c I think these #'s disagree with both ffxiclo and BGwiki.

Anyways, the setup:
Caster: 75BLM/WHM, no gear, 74 INT and 32 MAB
Target: 75COR/WAR, 58 INT and 0 MDB
Other: 73 BLU(this may be why my #'s seem slightly different than others)
Control: Stone II, control = 120 damage with no MDB, base D of 91.

Edit: #'s to the right in bold are per JP wiki, they appear to be a bit more accurate and match up with the BLU bonus adding +8 to every roll(thanks to Kylen for pointing me to it).

MDB without BLU in party:

• I | 114 dmg | +4 MDB +5 MDB
  II(L) | 100 dmg | +20 MDB +20 MDB
  III | 113 dmg | +5 MDB +6 MDB
  IV | 110 dmg | +9 MDB +8 MDB
  V | 109 dmg | +10 MDB +9 MDB
  VI(U) | 116 dmg | +3 MDB +3 MDB
  VII | 108 dmg | +11 MDB +10 MDB
  VIII | 106 dmg | +12 MDB +13 MDB
  IX | 105 dmg | +13 MDB +14 MDB
  X | 104 dmg | +14 MDB +15 MDB
  XI | 96 dmg | +24 MDB +25 MDB

MDB with BLU in party:

• I | 106 dmg | +12 MDB +13 MDB
  II(L) | 93 dmg | +28 MDB +28 MDB
  III | 105 dmg | +13 MDB +14 MDB
  IV | 103 dmg | +15 MDB +16 MDB
  V | 103 dmg | +15 MDB +17 MDB
  VI(L) | 107 dmg | +11 MDB +11 MDB
  VII | 102 dmg | +16 MDB +18 MDB
  VIII | 99 dmg | +21 MDB +21 MDB
  IX | 98 dmg | +22 MDB +22 MDB
  X | 97 dmg | +23 MDB +23 MDB
  XI | 90 dmg | +33 MDB +33 MDB

I really don't think these #'s are all correct, I had a few issues with the testing. First off, with a dINT of 16 Stone II was expected to come out to 124 damage, with a base of 94, not 120 with a base of 91. I'm not sure if things are calculated slightly differently in PvP, however the relationship between MAB and MDB should still be the same.

Another issue is with the large jump in value between rolling a III and rolling a IV without a BLU in the party, when that jump is not duplicated with a BLU in the party. I should have tried this with a larger nuke it seems, but even with Stone II it's pretty clear to tell which values of MDB make the damage possible and which don't.

And lastly, for rolling a VII w/o a BLU, I could not get the math to work to a specific value of MDB, it was between 10 and 11 leaning towards 11. At any rate I hadn't really seen any other tests for this roll out there, and while my results might be a bit off, I think it does still at least show the ballpark potency of the roll, it's a nice situational one, I personally got a ton of use out of it vs. the final ToAU boss, still use it when I know that Kirin is about to AF, and would assume it'd be nice for the tank party vs. JoL. If anyone cares to take some time to test this themselves and verify/shoot down these #'s please do.

Aside from this, I'd like to start testing on SCH roll, anyone have an opinion on what a passable sample size of casts would be to pin down Conserve MP %?

[spooky]

Aside from this, I'd like to start testing on SCH roll, anyone have an opinion on what a passable sample size of casts would be to pin down Conserve MP %?

9000

Sorry couldn't resist.

[Atreides]

i think for sch you could get away with 100 tests per number rolled, assuming you had a few people in the party so everyone could cast spells and you could just record the data from each person. with 5 people in the party this would jump up to 500 "tests" etc., but I dunno.

also for MDB, how viable would it be to test with 1000 needles with 2 people in range, either from something like a blu/blm or a cactuar? Forgive my ignorance but I wasn't playing the game while people were testing/getting disappointed by this spell.

[Callisto]

i think for sch you could get away with 100 tests per number rolled, assuming you had a few people in the party so everyone could cast spells and you could just record the data from each person. with 5 people in the party this would jump up to 500 "tests" etc., but I dunno.

also for MDB, how viable would it be to test with 1000 needles with 2 people in range, either from something like a blu/blm or a cactuar? Forgive my ignorance but I wasn't playing the game while people were testing/getting disappointed by this spell.

It'd be possible to test it like that with a BLU I think, from a Cactuar counts as physical damage though. I had thought about it, but the main issue was downtime, I didn't really want to have to restore 1k HP after every cast. Kylen directed me to the JP wiki and it looks like my #'s are all pretty close to theirs, a +/-1 variance at most for some rolls, with the boost from having a BLU in the party being +8, which lines up pretty well with what I have, I'd probably take their #'s over mine b/c theirs are a bit more symmetric and seem to make sense.

As far as SCH roll goes, it's basically just going to be me testing it on my own time as COR/WHM to start, spamming Cure at different roll values and plotting # of casts and # of Conserve MP procs. I'm going to try 500 casts @ each roll, hopefully that should be a sufficient sample size. The bad news is it'll take friggin forever, the good news is it gives my SCH friend time to get to 75 so he can help me test the w/ SCH values.

[Kylen]

spamming Cure at different roll values and plotting # of casts and # of Conserve MP procs

I might recommend using a spell with a higher mp cost than Cure. If I recall correctly, the random amount you save with Conserve MP can be as little as 1/16 the cost of the spell, meaning that for an 8 mp cost spell you may not see any difference in casting cost even when Conserve MP has kicked in.

[Callisto]

Yeah I was actually going w/ Cure II for that reason, possibly Cure III if I decide I want to use Evoker's instead of just bombing out my MP and resting. This is going to take a long friggin time, I don't see any faster way of doing it either.