Computer programmers without a degree how did you break in ?

[Khamsin]

The magic line where you start making the big bucks is 5 solid years of experience. Any experience in management/design are an even bigger plus and your salary will skyrocket.

4 years? Don't expect 6 figures yet.

And good luck breaking into the gaming industry. That's about as competetive a job market as you can come across. You either a) know someone on the inside or b) find somewhere else to work.

Not asking about 6 figures, just an average of where somebody would be around that mark. If you'd like, what's the average around the 5 year mark? I'm guessing it still wouldn't be 6 figures.

[Zhais]

The magic line where you start making the big bucks is 5 solid years of experience. Any experience in management/design are an even bigger plus and your salary will skyrocket.

4 years? Don't expect 6 figures yet.

And good luck breaking into the gaming industry. That's about as competetive a job market as you can come across. You either a) know someone on the inside or b) find somewhere else to work.

yea, I'm not expecting it to be easy

luckily I have a guaranteed job at my internship as I graduate in case it takes a while. But god I don't wanna be stuck here forever.

[bebeci]

I'm personally aiming for a game dev job....

I heard places like Blizzard and EA work you like dogs and treat new devs like shit. Maybe it's a filtering process, but there are a lot of companies willing to treat you better.

A good work environment > putting a brand name on your resume.

[Fhqwghads]

I'm personally aiming for a game dev job....

I heard places like Blizzard and EA work you like dogs and treat new devs like shit. Maybe it's a filtering process, but there are a lot of companies willing to treat you better.

A good work environment > putting a brand name on your resume.

Unless you like working 18 hours a day, I wouldn't call that a good work environment. Typically a game development company will work people out of the game dev industry pretty quick. We see people who crossover a lot to our team from game dev, just for a break.

[Creeps]

Or get a degree thats not in CS and get a job that pays more than 30k a year.

(Prepare for onslaught of people with CS degrees that make more than 30k a year posting in anger).

Seriously though, any engineer or scientist is expected to know how to program, get an engineering degree and open up your options alot more than the overflooded CS market.

Chock full of retarded statements.

Also, I firmly believe that although a degree isn't necessary to perform job duties, it is required to get a strong foot in the door of the job market. My dad is now making six figures as a nuclear engineer and he didn't go to college, but he did get a semi-formal education in the Navy in sonar and nuclear technologies. He spent years having to move around the country to find work and at one point was living in a double wide trailer in the middle of Tennessee, setting up power plants and substations. All his financial trouble could have easily been avoided if he just got his degree.

I also laugh at people who get a degree in a math/science field and think their education is done when the degree is. People fail to realize that to stay relevant in today's world, you really have to have a continuous education your entire working life.

How is anything you said relevant to what I said?

I didnt say "without an engineering/science degree you'll fail in life". I said the CS market is overflooded and you will find yourself with better job prospects in a field that offers a wider variety of skill sets.

"My dady did good w/o education", ya no shit, so did mine, want to compare cock sizes now dumbass?

Yes, there are people that do fine w/o degrees. Yes there are people who do fine WITH CS degree. But the plain the simple truth is the market for CS is and has been flooded for a while now and you will find yourself with alot more oportunities in life following other career paths (not to mention learn more about computer engineering/programing).

And who the fuck gets a degree in math/science and thinks they are done? The only thing a B.S. in physics will teach you is that you need more education.

Way to get super offended. The "my daddy did good w/o education" had absolutely nothing to do with what I said in response to you. It was an addendum if you had noticed the edit. Plus, I said right in my post that he did get a semi-formal education through the Navy. I merely used my family's case as a example that even if you don't get a college degree, some kind of formal education is important. Learn to fucking read. You were proven wrong in about 5 cases by people here who work in an engineering field and rarely have to program more than an Excel spreadsheet.

[Shuemue]

I'm personally aiming for a game dev job....

I heard places like Blizzard and EA work you like dogs and treat new devs like shit. Maybe it's a filtering process, but there are a lot of companies willing to treat you better.

A good work environment > putting a brand name on your resume.

EA do indeed treat you like shit. A good friend of mine who is a particularly gifted self-taught coder with no certifications took a job for $10/hr as a games tester with EA. He went from shitty tester, to team leader, to tools engineer. He's now been headhunted by a company working with Microsoft to make a new cops and robbers MMO. Big pay increase and now he'll actually be listened to and be considered for serious code work.

So yeah, it can be done without qualifications, but it'll involve a ton of talent and hard graft.

[finale23]

The magic line where you start making the big bucks is 5 solid years of experience. Any experience in management/design are an even bigger plus and your salary will skyrocket.

4 years? Don't expect 6 figures yet.

And good luck breaking into the gaming industry. That's about as competetive a job market as you can come across. You either a) know someone on the inside or b) find somewhere else to work.

Not asking about 6 figures, just an average of where somebody would be around that mark. If you'd like, what's the average around the 5 year mark? I'm guessing it still wouldn't be 6 figures.

i would think averaging 65-85k depending on the job description.

if you invest in an MBA degree, you would very likely get a 100k+ paying job with that 5-year of work experience upon graduation. and your earning curve's ganna go up even more when you switch from a technical to managerial function.

[Khamsin]

new cops and robbers MMO

I wonder what the classes would be in that one.

Officer
Constable
Mounty
Vigilante
Robber
Burglar
Pilferer
Shoplifter

or

Cop
SWAT
Detective
Ninja
Thug
Embezzler
Hacker
Pirate

[Shuemue]

I think it's gonna be pretty dumbed down, more action based. It's http://www.apb.com and I'll be on the closed beta, so I'll report back on whether it's any good.

[ismarc]

I'm personally aiming for a game dev job....

I heard places like Blizzard and EA work you like dogs and treat new devs like shit. Maybe it's a filtering process, but there are a lot of companies willing to treat you better.

A good work environment > putting a brand name on your resume.

It's not that specific companies work you like dogs and treat you like crap. It's that the deadlines are NOT set by the developers, frequently you're behind schedule before the first line of code gets typed and it's at a horribly grueling pace. It's actually REALLY easy to break into the game industry because the attrition rate is so high for developers. The biggest thing to understand about game development is you get to make no decisions whatsoever. If you're on the development side, you're writing tools for the artists/dialog writers, writing the engine itself (which anymore is actually modifying an existing engine) or working on high-level code like the scripting interface or "scene transition/zoning/game rules interpretation/etc." If you're a developer, you probably won't even know what the game looks like until you see reviews or go bug some testers. And just to put some perspective, the average work-week for a game-developer is 70 hours.

I'm comfortable in my Monday-Friday, 9ish-5, work from home if I feel like it, virtually unlimited budget job. A very large number of businesses have a development department for writing/improving/fixing internal tools or out-source the work to other companies. However, there's virtually no turn-over in those jobs because it's fun, exciting and won't turn you 80 after 1 year of work.

[Shuemue]

A very large number of businesses have a development department for writing/improving/fixing internal tools or out-source the work to other companies. However, there's virtually no turn-over in those jobs because it's fun, exciting and won't turn you 80 after 1 year of work.

That sounds exactly like the job my friend ended up in, he's left to work to his own deadlines within reason, and loves his job. He's getting $70k/year for fucking around with the DHTML on his personal website atm.

[evilbau]

I'm personally aiming for a game dev job....

I heard places like Blizzard and EA work you like dogs and treat new devs like shit. Maybe it's a filtering process, but there are a lot of companies willing to treat you better.

A good work environment > putting a brand name on your resume.

It's not that specific companies work you like dogs and treat you like crap. It's that the deadlines are NOT set by the developers, frequently you're behind schedule before the first line of code gets typed and it's at a horribly grueling pace. It's actually REALLY easy to break into the game industry because the attrition rate is so high for developers. The biggest thing to understand about game development is you get to make no decisions whatsoever. If you're on the development side, you're writing tools for the artists/dialog writers, writing the engine itself (which anymore is actually modifying an existing engine) or working on high-level code like the scripting interface or "scene transition/zoning/game rules interpretation/etc." If you're a developer, you probably won't even know what the game looks like until you see reviews or go bug some testers. And just to put some perspective, the average work-week for a game-developer is 70 hours.

I'm comfortable in my Monday-Friday, 9ish-5, work from home if I feel like it, virtually unlimited budget job. A very large number of businesses have a development department for writing/improving/fixing internal tools or out-source the work to other companies. However, there's virtually no turn-over in those jobs because it's fun, exciting and won't turn you 80 after 1 year of work.

A lot of my friends work in the game industry and they claim to love it. I have made the same choice you have, though, and would rather have my 'normal work hours' job to one in the game industry. I have had my share of 'crunch-time'-like hours and I now know I can't live like that and keep my sanity.

[Khamsin]

I think it's gonna be pretty dumbed down, more action based. It's http://www.apb.com and I'll be on the closed beta, so I'll report back on whether it's any good.

So no Korean-MMO style grind with Japanese-MMO style classes modelled loosely after Western style law enforcement and criminal professions?

And here I was looking forward to FFXI but with cops and robbers instead of WARs and MNKs, and banks and meth labs instead of Fafnir and Tiamat.

[Neosutra]

Or get a degree thats not in CS and get a job that pays more than 30k a year.

(Prepare for onslaught of people with CS degrees that make more than 30k a year posting in anger).

Seriously though, any engineer or scientist is expected to know how to program, get an engineering degree and open up your options alot more than the overflooded CS market.

Chock full of retarded statements.

Also, I firmly believe that although a degree isn't necessary to perform job duties, it is required to get a strong foot in the door of the job market. My dad is now making six figures as a nuclear engineer and he didn't go to college, but he did get a semi-formal education in the Navy in sonar and nuclear technologies. He spent years having to move around the country to find work and at one point was living in a double wide trailer in the middle of Tennessee, setting up power plants and substations. All his financial trouble could have easily been avoided if he just got his degree.

I also laugh at people who get a degree in a math/science field and think their education is done when the degree is. People fail to realize that to stay relevant in today's world, you really have to have a continuous education your entire working life.

How is anything you said relevant to what I said?

I didnt say "without an engineering/science degree you'll fail in life". I said the CS market is overflooded and you will find yourself with better job prospects in a field that offers a wider variety of skill sets.

"My dady did good w/o education", ya no shit, so did mine, want to compare cock sizes now dumbass?

Yes, there are people that do fine w/o degrees. Yes there are people who do fine WITH CS degree. But the plain the simple truth is the market for CS is and has been flooded for a while now and you will find yourself with alot more oportunities in life following other career paths (not to mention learn more about computer engineering/programing).

And who the fuck gets a degree in math/science and thinks they are done? The only thing a B.S. in physics will teach you is that you need more education.

Way to get super offended. The "my daddy did good w/o education" had absolutely nothing to do with what I said in response to you. It was an addendum if you had noticed the edit. Plus, I said right in my post that he did get a semi-formal education through the Navy. I merely used my family's case as a example that even if you don't get a college degree, some kind of formal education is important. Learn to fucking read. You were proven wrong in about 5 cases by people here who work in an engineering field and rarely have to program more than an Excel spreadsheet.

Just because some engineers do not program, does not mean that most companies today do not seperate their engineering development and algorithm development processes into engineers and CS programmers. As mentioned before in this thread, CS will not teach you the core developmental skills or hard science skills to solve the problems in today's engineering market and the job options are therefore greatly restricted.

Your retarded ass initial post ignored all this, simply said "your wrong lol", and then went off on another tangent that was totatlly unrelated. And you wonder why I was offended by your infectious stupidity.

Either you fail at reading, are functionally retarded, or have no fucking real world experience in anything your saying. Shut the fuck up and start attempting to make a valid point before you post.

[Khamsin]

Just because some engineers do not program, does not mean that most companies today do not seperate their engineering development and algorithm development processes into engineers and CS programmers.

Wait, you meant computer/software engineers when you said that? I thought you just meant engineers in general. I'm a different kind of engineer (civil), so I guess that makes my earlier point moot!

[Maguspk]

As mentioned before in this thread, CS will not teach you the core developmental skills or hard science skills to solve the problems in today's engineering market and the job options are therefore greatly restricted.

nvm

[Shuemue]

Neosutra argues a lot.

[Neosutra]

Neosutra argues a lot.

Ya, we should all take up a charity for my wife.

[oxx2]

didn't read anything but the OP.

i graduated from college with a double diploma, computer service(2yr) technician and computer programmer analyst(3yr).

i never broke into the field that i wanted to be a part of and looking back i am glad since programming is so, well, boring i guess. it's the same basic shit over and over.

however the field i studied is still invaluable as a business development manager for a major international and privately owned and operated corporation, just because my understanding of the way things work is a lot stronger then some of the people i do business with.

the only reason i got this job in the first place was due to a friend i met in one of my 3rd year classes and became very good friends with. he did some web design for the company that eventually hired me on as a customer service rep for there software dept.

eventually i moved up and was given lead of my own project (careers) which did very well for about a year then dropped off due to the ever changing entity that is called the internet.

i moved into CPM/CPV marketing as a traffic buyer for multiple software based sites all owned by the same company of course which eventually lead me to be one of the senior business development managers for the corp.

I am now focused on PPC marketing for search, banner and pop media.

Not only am i glad that i strayed from my original programing background i am extremely happy with the position that i have been given that programming would have never lead towards.

Morale of the story:
Just because you have a degree in a certain narrow field of study does not limit you to what you can do as long as its in the same industry. When i first started sales on the CPM side of things i wasn't sure i would like it as much as i originally liked programming, but now that i am doing so well (making a ton on commision 2.5% of multiple 150k accounts monthly is fucking hot)

[MisterBob]

Or get a degree thats not in CS and get a job that pays more than 30k a year.

(Prepare for onslaught of people with CS degrees that make more than 30k a year posting in anger).

Seriously though, any engineer or scientist is expected to know how to program, get an engineering degree and open up your options alot more than the overflooded CS market.

All I have to say is lol, CS degree here, and triple your moronic salary estimation.