So Far: Best 5/Worst 5

[Tsutsumiko]

And peach will always execute her attack first.

peach's approaches are autocancelled aerials (behind turnips) into slaps, theres no lag (think multiple hits from one of metaknight's FAirs).

snake cannot get attempt to hit peach during this string of attacks without getting hit and stunned, leaving him open. Brawl's minor shieldstun is enough to immobilize him (or anyone) until the slaps come out.

I would be very interested in seeing an aggressive snake approaching with autocancelled aerials into his uptilt without being grabbed or hit between his attacks, because I just dont see this as being possible (ITS TOO SLOW )

We're gonna argue forever, and i bet i'll call you Metah before this is done with

Snake doesn't really approach with autocanceled aerials, he has other approach methods. Mortar sliding, A-A-A combo, f-tilt, grenades, A-A-A combo into d-tilt, f-tilt into A-A-A combo, grenade countering, or full hop n-air are generally his best options (vacuumish property), with some clever grabbing/throwing mixed into the mortar/C4/Claymore, or simply tech chasing with d-throw. Also you make it seem like I made it out that u-tilt is his fastest attack, completely ignoring Snake's A-A-A combo and f-tilt that are on-par with the speed, and the mortar that goes through the jabs.

And arguing is fine until it resorts to mindless namecalling (i.e. faggot, dipshit, dumbass, idiot, genius, etc.), so we're good. I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing like a lot of people on these forums; Snake clearly has an edge over Peach, whether you choose to believe it or not.

Wait what? Snake has an approach game? Since when? XD

He's my main and I can tell you that NO those aren't approaches.

Mortal Slide is a relatively, but not completely safe approach. Ryoko has grabbed me out of the mortar slide (before the mortar comes out) at least 2 or 3 dozen times at this point.

AAA combo is not a good approach either. You can be jabbed in between the second hit. Therefore AA-jab cancel-D-Tilt (preferred because of how fast it is) or Up-Tilt are much better options.

F-Tilt is an approach. It is just that broken. It's one of the two safe approach moves.

This leads into the Knee Lock wit F-Tilt. That's a good approach as well. We already covered AAA combo after that. I personally like F-Tilt, F-Tilt, F-Tilt, AA (JC) Up Tilt. That's a good one.

Grenade countering isn't an approach. It's a defense. It completely stops any approach Metaknight has, which is why it rocks. I mean you can probably argue it as an approach when you're falling from the air but characters' like Marth/Meta will hit you with Up Airs and not take the punishment from the grenade.

Grenades in general are a fantastic approach, especially when you start doing fancy stuff with them like like dropping one, air doding back to grab it, pulling out a second one, then throwing it immediately and throwing the first 'nade to cause one massive explosion. Or pulling one, rolling back (causing it to drop in place) and mortar sliding immediately after it. Stealthly picks up the grenade and delivers it to the destination in time. Again, fantastic approach.

Full Hop N-Air is an approach but still a bad one. Landing lag is incredible on it. And if you're not going to hit with all 3 or 4 kicks, you may have trouble. Landing only the last kick or just the 3rd kick...if they power shield it they're not going to get pushed far enough away or have their shield broken and they can and probably will punish you. (I've tried this approach on Marth and I usually do eat F-Smash for it).

So I find the defensive style is definitely the way to play Snake. Going aggressive with him is generally "Meh" unless the situation really calls for it (which for some characters like Wolf, you really have no option).

[Zetah]

And peach will always execute her attack first.

peach's approaches are autocancelled aerials (behind turnips) into slaps, theres no lag (think multiple hits from one of metaknight's FAirs).

snake cannot get attempt to hit peach during this string of attacks without getting hit and stunned, leaving him open. Brawl's minor shieldstun is enough to immobilize him (or anyone) until the slaps come out.

I would be very interested in seeing an aggressive snake approaching with autocancelled aerials into his uptilt without being grabbed or hit between his attacks, because I just dont see this as being possible (ITS TOO SLOW )

We're gonna argue forever, and i bet i'll call you Metah before this is done with

Snake doesn't really approach with autocanceled aerials, he has other approach methods. Mortar sliding, A-A-A combo, f-tilt, grenades, A-A-A combo into d-tilt, f-tilt into A-A-A combo, grenade countering, or full hop n-air are generally his best options (vacuumish property), with some clever grabbing/throwing mixed into the mortar/C4/Claymore, or simply tech chasing with d-throw. Also you make it seem like I made it out that u-tilt is his fastest attack, completely ignoring Snake's A-A-A combo and f-tilt that are on-par with the speed, and the mortar that goes through the jabs.

And arguing is fine until it resorts to mindless namecalling (i.e. faggot, dipshit, dumbass, idiot, genius, etc.), so we're good. I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing like a lot of people on these forums; Snake clearly has an edge over Peach, whether you choose to believe it or not.

Wait what? Snake has an approach game? Since when? XD

He's my main and I can tell you that NO those aren't approaches.

Mortal Slide is a relatively, but not completely safe approach. Ryoko has grabbed me out of the mortar slide (before the mortar comes out) at least 2 or 3 dozen times at this point.

AAA combo is not a good approach either. You can be jabbed in between the second hit. Therefore AA-jab cancel-D-Tilt (preferred because of how fast it is) or Up-Tilt are much better options.

F-Tilt is an approach. It is just that broken. It's one of the two safe approach moves.

This leads into the Knee Lock wit F-Tilt. That's a good approach as well. We already covered AAA combo after that. I personally like F-Tilt, F-Tilt, F-Tilt, AA (JC) Up Tilt. That's a good one.

Grenade countering isn't an approach. It's a defense. It completely stops any approach Metaknight has, which is why it rocks. I mean you can probably argue it as an approach when you're falling from the air but characters' like Marth/Meta will hit you with Up Airs and not take the punishment from the grenade.

Grenades in general are a fantastic approach, especially when you start doing fancy stuff with them like like dropping one, air doding back to grab it, pulling out a second one, then throwing it immediately and throwing the first 'nade to cause one massive explosion. Or pulling one, rolling back (causing it to drop in place) and mortar sliding immediately after it. Stealthly picks up the grenade and delivers it to the destination in time. Again, fantastic approach.

Full Hop N-Air is an approach but still a bad one. Landing lag is incredible on it. And if you're not going to hit with all 3 or 4 kicks, you may have trouble. Landing only the last kick or just the 3rd kick...if they power shield it they're not going to get pushed far enough away or have their shield broken and they can and probably will punish you. (I've tried this approach on Marth and I usually do eat F-Smash for it).

So I find the defensive style is definitely the way to play Snake. Going aggressive with him is generally "Meh" unless the situation really calls for it (which for some characters like Wolf, you really have no option).

I already mentioned A combo to d-tilt, f-tilt (and the follow ups after the first one), and grenades. Grenade countering was mentioned because it's another option Snake can use against over aggressiveness. N-air was only thrown out there for when somebody else is approaching from the air, and due to the vacuumish proprties of it, it can outprioritize a lot of things. Mortar slide is good as long as it's not spammed imo. But yes, Snake is defensive.

[Nirokun!]

What Tsutsumiko says

Snake has great A-moves if you can land them (not saying its ridiculously hard lol) amidst the distraction of all his AMAZING B moves, but there are other characters (like peach) whose ability to attack is simply faster, with the ability to shut down other characters' attempts at retaliation.

I never said peach had any sort of advantage over snake, nor that she was on the same level as him, I just think that a peach player can go toe-to-toe with him after learning the matchup. Snake doesnt have anything that really shuts her down, nor does he have any way to force a mistake in her game to get to her. What i'm really afraid of are C4'd ledges exploding as i recover (if it can interrupt me before i grab on and become invincible), making me choose to recover with the parasol from below, or slowly falling from above the ledge. Thats it. And thats really only a problem if he can force me to the side that the C4 is on. And thats if he's at a low% and isnt saving the C4 to recover... Thats a lot of if's, so im not really afraid of snake.

[Tsutsumiko]

What Tsutsumiko says

Snake has great A-moves if you can land them (not saying its ridiculously hard lol) amidst the distraction of all his AMAZING B moves, but there are other characters (like peach) whose ability to attack is simply faster, with the ability to shut down other characters' attempts at retaliation.

I never said peach had any sort of advantage over snake, nor that she was on the same level as him, I just think that a peach player can go toe-to-toe with him after learning the matchup. Snake doesnt have anything that really shuts her down, nor does he have any way to force a mistake in her game to get to her. What i'm really afraid of are C4'd ledges exploding as i recover (if it can interrupt me before i grab on and become invincible), making me choose to recover with the parasol from below, or slowly falling from above the ledge. Thats it. And thats really only a problem if he can force me to the side that the C4 is on. And thats if he's at a low% and isnt saving the C4 to recover... Thats a lot of if's, so im not really afraid of snake.

No but you did forget 2 things to worry about:

1. The Forward Tilt can be spammed. I'm talking about the second Peach's Slaps finish, if he's just mashing the F-Tilt, he will recover fast enough to get both hits in. (assumes low percentages and you're not going to follow it up with the BS dash attack...) ... My point is that the Forward tilt comes out lighting fast after recovering from a hit.

2. The C4 Stick. It's pretty hard to land it on Peach but if he can bluff you into Toad, then he may stick you, which can create some problems because if you already didn't know, Mew2King confirmed that Up Tilt to C4 kills pretty much the entire cast @50%. That's dangerous stuff.

[Nirokun!]

are you talking about slap1=>slap2=> slap1=>slap2? I dont use 2 pairs of slaps... ever lol. If i slap1/2 its to clear someone away at low %, then i usually dash back and pivot a fsmash, or do a really weird-looking FC FAir (jump forward, float back, FAir, DI forward/back depending on their reaction for spacing.)

for the C4 stick i dont have anything solid for that lol. short of chasing him down and sticking it to him (all the while ready to roll/airdodge/dodge/shield?[havent tried to shield it i dont think, i know rolling and airdodging works]) while baiting an attack to counter/keeping close so he cant use it, i dont have much for that If he gets me he gets me (but i guess thats more or less true for everyone)

[Tsutsumiko]

are you talking about slap1=>slap2=> slap1=>slap2? I dont use 2 pairs of slaps... ever lol. If i slap1/2 its to clear someone away at low %, then i usually dash back and pivot a fsmash, or do a really weird-looking FC FAir (jump forward, float back, FAir, DI forward/back depending on their reaction for spacing.)

for the C4 stick i dont have anything solid for that lol. short of chasing him down and sticking it to him (all the while ready to roll/airdodge/dodge/shield?[havent tried to shield it i dont think, i know rolling and airdodging works]) while baiting an attack to counter/keeping close so he cant use it, i dont have much for that If he gets me he gets me (but i guess thats more or less true for everyone)

Generally when I get the stick, if I realize they haven't noticed it, I'll detonate it. If they do notice it and start applying the evasive moves, I feel this is probably the one moment where Snake can actually go on the offense safely. Your opponent is so preoccupied trying not mess up and get blown to smithereens that you can actually start using the approaches that Zetah was referring to. Pretty much anything that will send your opponent flying and in a stunned state is an instant kill @50%. Once you see them curled up in a ball and flying, press the little red button and watch them soar.

[Nirokun!]

little red button is top tier

[Zetah]

Don't think it's 50% for everybody, considering I just up-tilted Ike on Battlefield, set off the C4 and it didn't kill him. 60% works for him though.

[AkashiXI]

How the heck do you get his C4 to stick btw? I occasionally can get it on someone, but I don't play Snake seriously so it's once in a blue moon moment for me.

[Tsutsumiko]

How the heck do you get his C4 to stick btw? I occasionally can get it on someone, but I don't play Snake seriously so it's once in a blue moon moment for me.

Two Easiest Ways:

1. Side Step a laggy move at point blank and tap down+B. (See: Marth's Forward Smash)

2. Tech chasing. (If you knock them down and you see them roll away from you, dash towards them and hit Down B right where they'll stand up and it'll just stick as they're rising)

[Starless]

Late response, with heavily biased commentary.

Top 5:
Zelda (There are still a lot of people who do not know how to get around Din's Fire, and I abuse this.)
Diddy Kong (BANANAS PEANUTS CLAP CLAP)
Mario (No one uses him just because he's the main character and they gave him F.L.U.D.D. to which I say lolcape)
Donkey Kong (Same as Mario, no one uses him because he's a big monkey. I like the underdogs.)
Ganondorf (I used him in Melee, and I'm glad they didn't change much.)

Bottom 5:
Falco (At least Wolf is marginally different than Fox. The only reason we ever play Falco is to have an excuse to shout TWOAH!!)
Lucas (I just don't like this kid.)
Sonic (Character Design) (Do You Need It?)
R.O.B. (He's a very unique character I know, and I know all about where the character comes from, but I still think there were far more deserving candidates for the roster and I think Nintendo is trying far too hard to revive this guy in all their games. Being in the background in Port Town in F-Zero GX was cute, the rest is overkill.)
Zero Suit Samus (Samus isn't iconic without the suit. Besides, I don't think anybody liked that part of Zero Mission anyway.)

EDIT: Toon Link too. Can't believe I forgot him. Worst character decision ever.

[Ryko]

It's been 3 months.

My top 5 are...

Ike
uh...


Bottom 5
uh...

[Nirokun!]

It's been 3 months.

My top 5 are...

Ike
uh...


Bottom 5
uh...

Ike is gay babe. Gay. I found this out yesterday, and I feel the need to share it

[Ryko]

I've heard about it before, honestly don't care. He could suck a billion penises as long as he can 1 shot someone with eruption from 0.

[Nirokun!]

And that was the test. You passed. Enjoy your gay character (lololol)

[Ryko]

huhwha

[Meian]

I must fight you Niro!

[Zetah]

Comforting Soren when he's crying like that isn't really gay.

[Kobb]

Late response, with heavily biased commentary.

Top 5:
Zelda (There are still a lot of people who do not know how to get around Din's Fire, and I abuse this.)
Diddy Kong (BANANAS PEANUTS CLAP CLAP)
Mario (No one uses him just because he's the main character and they gave him F.L.U.D.D. to which I say lolcape)
Donkey Kong (Same as Mario, no one uses him because he's a big monkey. I like the underdogs.)
Ganondorf (I used him in Melee, and I'm glad they didn't change much.)

Bottom 5:
Falco (At least Wolf is marginally different than Fox. The only reason we ever play Falco is to have an excuse to shout TWOAH!!)
Lucas (I just don't like this kid.)
Sonic (Character Design) (Do You Need It?)
R.O.B. (He's a very unique character I know, and I know all about where the character comes from, but I still think there were far more deserving candidates for the roster and I think Nintendo is trying far too hard to revive this guy in all their games. Being in the background in Port Town in F-Zero GX was cute, the rest is overkill.)
Zero Suit Samus (Samus isn't iconic without the suit. Besides, I don't think anybody liked that part of Zero Mission anyway.)

EDIT: Toon Link too. Can't believe I forgot him. Worst character decision ever.

I thought people only played Falco to spam, "Hands off my Bread!"

[Meian]

Late response, with heavily biased commentary.

Top 5:
Zelda (There are still a lot of people who do not know how to get around Din's Fire, and I abuse this.)
Diddy Kong (BANANAS PEANUTS CLAP CLAP)
Mario (No one uses him just because he's the main character and they gave him F.L.U.D.D. to which I say lolcape)
Donkey Kong (Same as Mario, no one uses him because he's a big monkey. I like the underdogs.)
Ganondorf (I used him in Melee, and I'm glad they didn't change much.)

Bottom 5:
Falco (At least Wolf is marginally different than Fox. The only reason we ever play Falco is to have an excuse to shout TWOAH!!)
Lucas (I just don't like this kid.)
Sonic (Character Design) (Do You Need It?)
R.O.B. (He's a very unique character I know, and I know all about where the character comes from, but I still think there were far more deserving candidates for the roster and I think Nintendo is trying far too hard to revive this guy in all their games. Being in the background in Port Town in F-Zero GX was cute, the rest is overkill.)
Zero Suit Samus (Samus isn't iconic without the suit. Besides, I don't think anybody liked that part of Zero Mission anyway.)

EDIT: Toon Link too. Can't believe I forgot him. Worst character decision ever.

I thought people only played Falco to spam, "Hands off my Bread!"

I liked Falco because of how he was in the Star Fox games...

Toon Link was great as a replacement for Young Link (was hoping for him along with Viewtiful Joe and Marina from Mischief Makers)