Retaliation in Salvage?

[ringthree]

So has anyone tried to use Retaliation in Salvage yet? It seems that it would be something really nice to use for the first couple of floors in each zone, in much the same way that Counterstance is excellent for MNKs. It's problems are the low proc rate and damage is still taken, but it counts as a full swing so it gives TP and with a Great Axe can be quite powerful.

[Scorp]

Damage wouldn't be a downside since you should have phalanx II etc. The biggest issue for me would be the slow movement through a zone, when every second counts. Would be situationally good for say, Hammerblow and Powderkeg rooms.

If I wasn't always mnk i'd try it

[Seditedi]

How much is the movement speed decrease? 12%?

[chapstick]

Yeah. 12%.

[Silpha]

Yeah i dont see either damage still taken being a problem. As anyway you would take them with or without Retaliation, so its just a free hit back to mobs.
Movement speed down is a bigger problem in an event where every second counts. So prolly in Salvage just use it on NM/boss/emptying rooms where you'll stand in place for some times.
And cancel it when you got to move a bit far. Its only 3 minutes recast, so not really a trouble to reapply it quite often.

[ninjafox]

What's that Ring? sounds like you want me to go WAR to salvage?!!! OK buddy

[Ferien]

It's a shame. It would really shine for me on the early floors (I do most of the tanking at the beginning of our runs) but those are also the floors with the most moving around, so it'd hurt quite a bit in that regard. Still probably worthwhile to use and click off once you're switching rooms though, so I'm liking it even before I've gotten to use it.

[Lyramion]

Yesterday our MNKs were missing so we did Arrapago with 2x WAR/NIN. Both were toying around with Retaliation and were not too fond of it. While it procs, it doesnt proc often and having to do lots of running often makes it not worth keeping up.


Retaliation shines with Great Axe where you can get TP for the countered hit and get you a good step closer to the next RR.



Our little double WAR experiment ended in us popping the 6th Floor QQs even :D i told my group we could do it without MNKs and ppl didnt believe me.



Sooo.....Retaliation sure helps but its not an all new cookie cutter ability but a fine addition especially for a bit longer fights like minichariots

[Kaylia]

How is retaliation good on chariot? The last thing I want when I have shadow down is to give more tp to the mobs (or get additional hate versus the 2nd tank). I havent tried it yet, but it doesnt seem very useful on HNM...dunno, I will try later.

[ninjafox]

The movement speed is hardly noticeable when running around from wat i could tell yesterday. Although I didn't have anybody running along side me, i really couldn't tell the diffrence between having ret on or just regular running

[Berdysh]

The movement speed shouldn't be a huge issue since you usually have a THF or BRD pulling stuff to you, and if you're having to run a long distance just turn it off. I usually forget to take Dusk Gloves off half the time, anyhow.

I think it's a nice ability and a good Warrior twist in Counter Attack. If your group uses a two MNK setup, then this basically isn't going to inspire any change to that - which is why I think it was implemented well. I know some groups, though, like mine, go with a MNK/WAR(/SAM)/THF/RDM/WHM/BRD setup and this is only going to help that. WAR/SAM shreds through the early floors, which Retaliation will only help, and it has never been a problem on MP tanking chariots. As for using it on Chariots... why not? Besides un-nerfed LBC, they're all basically harmless. Again, if you're in a tough situation, like on Discoid chariot where everyone's low and you wouldn't be able to handle another, just turn it off.

It's a nice little bonus to people who already used Warrior in Salvage, but it's not really going to change their standing, basically.

[Zilong]

I can see it being useful on lower level of salvage, but I doubt that'd change anything since everything implodes within seconds there anyway.

And it can't be practical on boss floors since they hit hard, especially while you're berserked...though it might give a decent extra damage when your third eye/utsu is down, I doubt it'd matter enough in the long run.

[Ferien]

I can see it being useful on lower level of salvage, but I doubt that'd change anything since everything implodes within seconds there anyway.

And it can't be practical on boss floors since they hit hard, especially while you're berserked...though it might give a decent extra damage when your third eye/utsu is down, I doubt it'd matter enough in the long run.

A few seconds on each 1st floor mob adds up. If you can kill every mob one/two swings faster, you just shaved off 2 minutes from the rest of the run. In some cases, this means you don't lose those 2 boss pieces to the ether, or you kill the last mob instead of TO@1%. Is it huge, no, but in Salvage, breathing room is always nice.

[Uzor]

Every second matters. One of the most noticable places is 6F Treasure Hunters. Killing the last reinforcement 5 sec too late sucks =(

Although I guess that's not a good example of saving time for the rest of the run