What do you think?

[wintersquall]

it's convenient that everyone forgets that SAM weaponskills got directly nerfed a few months ago, to the point where the 2H buff did pretty much nothing for us, unlike all the other 2H jobs.

but i really don't want to talk about sam anyway.






where the hell are my new storyline missions? seriously.


edit: i do agree to a degree ronin... but with the damage nerf and the new emphasis on SCs, we're just about right imo. seen a really good DRG whack stuff lately? o.O if they keep screwing around however, we will be overpowered so... STOP GIVING US /JAS SE!!

[Hilkiah]

Who's gonna read this far down the thread? I think WHM/SCH was already better than WHM/SMN for almost everything before the patch.

Afterward? WHM/SCH is amazing! On sub now you get 2 charges on the stratagems instead of 1, and they recharge in 2 minutes instead of 4. Basically, you can use a stratagem (I find Penury useful) every minute, on average. Plus, there's sublimination, whose HP-drain can be nullified by WHM-main SS.

I was in a PT post-update at Greater Colibri, BRD 4DD and me as WHM/SCH. The BRD DC'd so we just kept going. I kept haste up for everyone (36 MP btw, not 40), used Penury on just about every cure I cast (Cure 5 for cheap, ftw), and maxed out sublimination every time, hitting 300 or 296 MP with my galka frame.

For people to say WHM got nothing but teleports is just uninformed.

[ronin sparthos]

it's convenient that everyone forgets that SAM weaponskills got directly nerfed a few months ago, to the point where the 2H buff did pretty much nothing for us, unlike all the other 2H jobs.

but i really don't want to talk about sam anyway.






where the hell are my new storyline missions? seriously.


edit: i do agree to a degree ronin... but with the damage nerf and the new emphasis on SCs, we're just about right imo. seen a really good DRG whack stuff lately? o.O if they keep screwing around however, we will be overpowered so... STOP GIVING US /JAS SE!!

DRG has its edges in EXP/Meripo much like MNK - specialization in the destruction of things around the level, a good SAM is good in every situation in the game - i just wish SE would realize that when it comes to those niche classes.

Anyways, all the bitching about CoP is why the missions are what they are atm. Now its worse than toAU with cutscene after cutscene. I miss the long dungeon grinds and BCNMs with flying dragons and mammets. I doubt they will ever top 6-4 in a non-final BCNM ever..

[Sesshoumaru]

Wow you really seem unhappy... I think you should quit... seriously. If you don't like it so much, why are you spending so much energy complaining about it? Do you want other people to leave with you?

I've played UO and Everquest and I'd much rather play FFXI. I've watched people play WoW on the sidelines and... well... I'd much rather play FFXI. Although I do like taking a quick break to play other non MMO's, I can't think of another MMO that I'd rather play than FFXI atm. Lineage sounds kool with the PVP since one of my best friends played that as i watched. Also, would you rather have expansions at the rate that blizzard makes them?

But seriously if this MMO can't compare to others, then why don't you go play one of those?

I've played FFXI since NA release. This last update is about the same in size as any other update I've seen. COP and TOA had very little when they started as well. WOTG is in my opinion starting off a bit slow, but i wouldn't mind putting that on the back burner for same changes to RDM and MNK.

I would like a bit more story though. but the update was pretty decent

I would very much not mind expansions at the rate blizzard makes them. They do a good jobs from the start and take time making sure shit is in order and works well, unlike SE who takes a shorter time to rush an expansion then limp their way to getting it sorted out. So in reality SE are slower to put out expansions then Blizz when you account for all the "Adjustments" SE makes after every expansion. Also SOE is pretty good with releasing expansions, small little hold you over ones, and Big whole new continents to kick ass in ones. I could go on about other companies SE has fallen behind but whats the point for a fanboy like you everything I say is ignored.

I don't quit right now because it just so happens that:

1) I've spent years playing FFXI.
2) My RL friends play FFXI
3) I have some really great in game friends, its not the same talking on aim or yahoo.
4) FFXI could be much better then it currently is.
4a) FFXI is moving at a snails pace because SE are lazy dumb fucks with about maybe 2-3(if that many) smart devs.

A Fresh loaf of bread right out of the oven of an experienced baker is one of the most fantastic things you can ever taste. However if you leave that loaf of bread out for week it turns into a rock hard moldy thing which dogs would probably pass up.

However there is a trick with bread and MMOs.
If they go stale make bread crumbs or crutons.
In the case of an MMO change stuff up to get rid of the stale parts of the game.
Blizzard totally replaced their endgame, some hardcore people cried but they got over it and Blizzard ended up with more subscribers then it lost. Is that a bit to drastic for FFXI, probably, but if SE is not doing drastic things like that they really need to step it up and make changes that makes other aspects of the game more fun. More Spells, more abilities, higher cap for subjobs( lvl 40-45 subs would do huge things to change the way the game is played with out negating the current endgame scene), More NMs with out idiotic spawn conditions/timers/lottery.

I for one would love to see subjobs cap raised to 45. One of the greatest aspect of FFXI is the subjob system and it is something that SE has given very little attention too, other then nerfing this or that sub.

Hell SE could even have special abilities which are accessed through certain job combinations.
For example here are some job combo abilities off the top of my head:

Nin/Thf
Garote
"when behind an opponent applies a Dot effect and silence it also gives a moderate amount of hate"

Smn/Blm
Astral Extinction
sacrifice x( being a % or simply an amount) of mp and have your Avatar explode delivering their coordinating elemental damage to the enemy.

Bst/Blu
Axe of the Wild
"when fighting a creature of the wild (animals not beast men) activate this ability to take advantage of ones understanding of beast to increase ones prowess against your enemy" gives haste acc and atk 15% or so w/e.

Whm/smn
Light Seeker
"when a light elemental is summoned and this ability is activated greatly reduce its perpetuation cost"
make it so a whm could keep out the avatar for practically nothing thus addressing some of the staying power issue whms have when there isn't a refresher in the pt.

Pld/mnk
Chi Shield
"by focusing both his mind and body the pld is able to regenerate large amounts of health quickly"
basically a super Regen where every x points of damage takes away one mp so your MP becomes an addition to your HP

Mnk/Drk
Dark palm
"Through study of the dark arts a monk can sacrifice a portion of his very life to deliver a devastating single hit attack"
sacrifice x hp to deliver x amount of damage with a cool down of x to not make it super over powered.

Drg/pld
Pendragon
"The threshold for Healing Breath is removed and your wyvern automatically heals you"
causes a the same hate a plds heal for the same amount would but since the drg and not wyvern uses the ability the drg gets the hate.
Draconic Defense
Defense/parry/dodge/evasion boost

I put two because drg was tricky to figure out a worthwhile and different combo for.

Sam/Rng
Ancient Arrow ( or ) Arrow of Ancient Times
"Through training and dedication the samurai unleashes his arrow with precise and deadly accuracy."
either a single shot buff with a coold down to fit it or a passive trait.

Rdm/War
Enhancing Arts
"Through the study of combat the Redmage has become a master of enhancing their physical capabilites"
like a scholars dark/light arts when this is active the Rdm loses the ability to use any spells other then enhancing spells.
Self only buff then have special bonuses.
Like enspells do more damage and also give bonus acc. Thus a rdm with would be able to put out a nice amount of Dot through the use of low delay daggers and elemental dot while at the same time offering haste refresh etc.
Of course a rdm would not be able to cure like this but hey you give a little to get a little.

War/mnk
headButt
"Studying martial arts has turned every part of the warriors body into a weapon"
Procs like kick attacks and stuns

Blm/Drk
Shadow fiend
"Calls forth a shade to fight by your side"
The Blm channels all spells through this shade thus the shade gets all hate.
The shade will also amplify the magical spell reducing resist and increasing damage.
set a cool down so as to not make Blms totally over powered.

Thf/Sam
Hitokiri
"When the effect of hitokiri is active the Thief's sneak attack and trick attack timers are reduced to 15 seconds, however the attack can miss and the effects of both are reduced"

Drk/Drg
Death Wyvern
"Summons an undead wyvern"
functions like a regular wyvern but weaker.

Brd/Cor
The Big show
"enhances the effect of all buffs and debuffs that the bard casts"

Ranger/thf
only with cross bow equipped
"Machine Bow"
Haste... enough to make it worth it lol

Blu/Rdm
"Prismatic Arts"
"Through the study of the arcane and divine as well as the natural the blue mage is able to fully utilize the magical skills at his disposal"
can't use physical spells but magical spelsl get a big boost and mp reduction.
Blu/war
The beast within
"The Blu mage pushes himself to the limits barely able to maintain his humanity"
Provide a buff to physical blu magic.

Blu is versatile and people want to see it go either way so for the caster and the melee oriented I did both.

Cor/Brd
Lady Luck's Tune
The next roll will be an eleven


Pup/Nin
Puppet Bomb( wouldn't know what the japanese translation would be maybe even doll bomb)
"your puppet toss an explosive at the enemy."
uses ninja tools to make the equivalent elemental / debuff exsplosive.
Is similar to using a ranged weapon in that the delay damage etc is based off the ammo or bomb you use.

So there you go about 30 minutes and I came up with an idea of how the game could be drastically changed with out touching the endgame scene (enemy wise not player wise). All the endgame gear would still be what it is and you would still have the basic job/sub doign what they do but with the option of this different job/sub spicing things up.
This stuff isnt hard to come up with and I'm sure each of you could easily come up with 1 or 2 ideas, however SE seems to have a hard time coming up with fresh ideas and when they do it takes them a long ass time to do it.

[Gunslinger]

Job combo abilities would be pretty cool, but usually SE likes people to invent ways for players to use jobs. If they tell you what a job combo is supposed to do, it loses all the magic D:

That said, I think it's awesome.

[ronin sparthos]

1) I've spent years playing FFXI.
2) My RL friends play FFXI
3) I have some really great in game friends, its not the same talking on aim or yahoo.
4) FFXI could be much better then it currently is.
5) Im a FF fan and feel some unwilling sense of loyalty to the franchise.

This would sum up why i still play/talk/promote ideas about FFXI after so many years. Its hard to up and quit when many people have grown on you over the years in the game. (at least for me)

Subjob traits arent a bad idea, the issue would be more the fact that alot of this stuff would either be unbalancing or be passed up for the status quo. Look at /SCH: its obvious SE is trying to push it as the new 'mage standard' but so many people are used to the 'normal subs' that they wont use it unless it meets the standard then goes above and beyond. Comparing the game to WoW is pretty moot, some ideas would work - others are simply not going to cut it in this game (different engines, different playstyles etc) much like certain FFXI ideas wouldnt float it in WoW or even EQII.


Id say take the idea that certain jobs work better together and roll with that, subjob only JAs and skills wouldnt be bad but the fact is that alot of mains need work and the possibility for skills that dont suck.

Throwing has been all but abandoned, it needs WS and a reason for NIN to be best at it. Cheapen the items is step #1.

is just one idea, SE shouldnt even touch the subjobs until the mainjobs with issues are fixed....and there are a lot of main job issues that need to worked out, not to mention game issues. They are covering some, but others are just still there - years in the making.

-DEF/VIT formula fix which would auto-fix bloodtanking
-Incentive for MNKs vs HNMs.
-Incentive for BLM in standard parties again.
-Proc rate fixes for enfeebles, better melee capacity for RDM.
-Expansion of THF ranged capabilities, HNM capacity.
-More PLD-unique spells.
-Major Expansion of BST jugpet choices, incentive for PT use, pet acc tweaks.
-Overhaul of Bard Bar-effect songs, more instruments/new 3rd slot for bar-effect songs.
-Tweaks to Ranger attack speed, incentive to use different weapons, better/more unique ammo choices.

are just a few things i could think of that are still out there.

[Sesshoumaru]

Actually making new possibilities with subs would probably fix some of the issues with mains. If you skim through those suggestions I made they were geared towards fixing the problems with mains. take a look at dark palm for Mnk/drk its a soul eater type single hit ability based on timer is would be a very big draw for HNMs.

[Phraust]

To the folks in the "z0mg Sam has teh wet bawls from SE's tongue!!" house of thought:

Hasso/Seigan are subbable. It's a benefit to more than just Sam, and an exceptionally good benefit too for those that know how to use the abilities.

Sam was just barely above Drg in usefulness before the updates, then it got boosted to god status along with other 2-handed weapon users, then it was knocked quite a few pegs lower, to the point that the Sams I use to get in merit pts were capped at ~20% damage compaired to a ridill war or mnk, when they use to do 45%. At this time, sure, they got another buff, but it is pretty much a good increase, not a godlike increase.

On another note, they gave Thf more boosts than sam in the same amount of time... Dagger base Damage increase, Assassin, Accomplice, Thief Knife, Collaborator, etc. But you don't have a bunch of people bleeding from their poons on that one...

When you think about it rationally, all the dipshits crying about a lack of Mnk, Nin, Rdm, updates need to seriously look at the reality here... Other jobs like Sam, Drg, Drk, just recently reached that tier where Nin, Mnk, War, Brd, and Rdm had always been. Sure it seems like they're getting a lot of attention now, but think back a year ago, was it ever in your mind to invite a Drg, Sam, or Drk to a merit pt?

And now that those jobs got a little bit of an edge to them, SE can now increase the jobs they haven't. What would have been the point to add abilities or more damage potential to Mnk back when they added the 2 handed buff? so Mnk can continue to do 30%-40% of the damage leaving Sams, Drgs, and Drks, to only do 12%-18%? C'mon... Stop whining and be more realistic.

[ronin sparthos]

To the folks in the "z0mg Sam has teh wet bawls from SE's tongue!!" house of thought:

Hasso/Seigan are subbable. It's a benefit to more than just Sam, and an exceptionally good benefit too for those that know how to use the abilities.

Sam was just barely above Drg in usefulness before the updates, then it got boosted to god status along with other 2-handed weapon users, then it was knocked quite a few pegs lower, to the point that the Sams I use to get in merit pts were capped at ~20% damage compaired to a ridill war or mnk, when they use to do 45%. At this time, sure, they got another buff, but it is pretty much a good increase, not a godlike increase.

On another note, they gave Thf more boosts than sam in the same amount of time... Dagger base Damage increase, Assassin, Accomplice, Thief Knife, Collaborator, etc. But you don't have a bunch of people bleeding from their poons on that one...

When you think about it rationally, all the dipshits crying about a lack of Mnk, Nin, Rdm, updates need to seriously look at the reality here... Other jobs like Sam, Drg, Drk, just recently reached that tier where Nin, Mnk, War, Brd, and Rdm had always been. Sure it seems like they're getting a lot of attention now, but think back a year ago, was it ever in your mind to invite a Drg, Sam, or Drk to a merit pt?

And now that those jobs got a little bit of an edge to them, SE can now increase the jobs they haven't. What would have been the point to add abilities or more damage potential to Mnk back when they added the 2 handed buff? so Mnk can continue to do 30%-40% of the damage leaving Sams, Drgs, and Drks, to only do 12%-18%? C'mon... Stop whining and be more realistic.

Your forgetting the fact that what job has always consistently been good vs endgame mobs? even back when SC+MB used to be staple on gods/kings? Samurai. Even without the Hasso/Seigan adds, sam was a solid job with fast TP gaining ability and was favored once they got light in oldworld EXP, i will say though that pre-71 sam was not desired over lightmakers but thats a different story.

Barely above DRG in usefulness? are you kidding me? maybe in your expieriences but SAM was way above lolDRG status even at its worse. (no JA, no overwhelm, no 2H patches)

Your comparing SAM to a ridill war? MNK? Those are two best jobs for merits and were considered rare-as-fuck-status back when sam didnt have the tools it has now. Do you know why SAM got knocked down a peg after the update to 2h? because it was broken and blew every other DD out of the water in almost any situation. MNK has a major flaw vs HNMs, that is made up via Salvage and superior DoT output to many jobs. War is supposedly a tank and DD, ridill is top-tier and not worth mentioning when the average player doesnt have one - standard WARs can be outparsed and outgunned.

THF? THF had some of the worst DoT output pre-dagger update and was reliant on SATA to output any respectable damage on anything with remote defenses. Assassin was common sense and upped a job that had low damage output and made it better. Accomplice and its lower tier incarnation arent going to increase damage output - the skills are to help hate-control, THF knife possibly made the status of having one moot due to the fact that it used to be a major brag-status - now many people just get the THF in for a TH status effect then tell them sit the fuck out.

Stop looking at SAM in the merit-aspect where it was good but could get schooled by other jobs (though not as severely as other jobs) and look at it in the sense that SAM has always had a place in a party for EXP - HNMs and every event aspect even without the massive changes to it. Im a SAM and have played the job since lolnoLightnoPT and i can say for a FACT that the job has been given alot more than it actually needed expecially when it is one of the only DDs that can be applied to all events.

Samurai has always been good, ALWAYS.

[Kenji]

Drk/Drg
Death Wyvern
"Summons an undead wyvern"
functions like a regular wyvern but weaker.

I lol'ed. Not what you meant, just how it sounds.

Interesting ideas, but it would be a large power boost, that would render a lot of current content EZ-mode. I'm more along the lines of small adjustments over time. And yes, I know a lot of content seems like EZ mode to the end-gamers here with all the top gear and tricked-out LS's. For the majority, things are still challenging. Like the LS that has taken down Genbu, and now working on the other 3.

[Dohorehn]

to be honest, if implemented correctly... job/subjob ability combos would be pretty kick ass and breathe lots of life into the game.

Also, I always had a dream of like job oriented skillchains/abilities, but it will never happen lol.

example: Ninja does something (Blade: Ten), sam does something (Tachi: Kasha) -> both ninja and sam do something unison (Rage of the East!! Fwooosh!). the same premise as a skillchain, but not really a skillchain, maybe just an extra attack + a skill chain? ok that's a bit complicated lol.

OR also I think, sort of like with Corsair rolls being powered up with having the specific job in the party. Maybe they could just have bonuses in general for having say... a PLD and a DRK... everyone would get some "Knightly" type bonus... I dunno.

You could certainly encourage some interesting party combinations, lol. And promote some older classics... Say if you had a RDM, WHM, and BLM in party you'd get like "Ancient Mages" bonus, something like an extra fixed refresh... 1 tick? Making alliances would be fun, lol.

Sorry... bored at work.

[ronin sparthos]

Drk/Drg
Death Wyvern
"Summons an undead wyvern"
functions like a regular wyvern but weaker.

I lol'ed. Not what you meant, just how it sounds.

Interesting ideas, but it would be a large power boost, that would render a lot of current content EZ-mode. I'm more along the lines of small adjustments over time. And yes, I know a lot of content seems like EZ mode to the end-gamers here with all the top gear and tricked-out LS's. For the majority, things are still challenging. Like the LS that has taken down Genbu, and now working on the other 3.

Games been on 'easy mode' since CoP nerfs, the hardest thing since then has probably been content no one touches. (Einherjar, 3ToAU kings, Vrtra non-zerged) The majority of players arent new, most have there feet wet with at least 1 75 under the belt. If most players were new, the issue about low level EXP being such a hard time to put together wouldnt be an issue. This game is really hard at the start, most players are turned off by that (out of 6 friends i invited to play FF, only 1 stayed)

This is strictly my opinion, the issue about low level EXP is real though.

[Kenji]

Drk/Drg
Death Wyvern
"Summons an undead wyvern"
functions like a regular wyvern but weaker.

I lol'ed. Not what you meant, just how it sounds.

Interesting ideas, but it would be a large power boost, that would render a lot of current content EZ-mode. I'm more along the lines of small adjustments over time. And yes, I know a lot of content seems like EZ mode to the end-gamers here with all the top gear and tricked-out LS's. For the majority, things are still challenging. Like the LS that has taken down Genbu, and now working on the other 3.

Games been on 'easy mode' since CoP nerfs, the hardest thing since then has probably been content no one touches. (Einherjar, 3ToAU kings, Vrtra non-zerged) The majority of players arent new, most have there feet wet with at least 1 75 under the belt. If most players were new, the issue about low level EXP being such a hard time to put together wouldnt be an issue. This game is really hard at the start, most players are turned off by that (out of 6 friends i invited to play FF, only 1 stayed)

This is strictly my opinion, the issue about low level EXP is real though.

I think you'd be surprised. Most of my parties up to 50 have been with first timers. Even beyond that, are a lot of people still on their first job. The first LS I joined, was mostly newbies of varying levels. The LS I'm in now, has been steadily working their way through Limbus, Salvage, and sky gods.

Honestly, pick a level 1 job. Start leveling it. Don't party with friends, and instead just take invites from people. I bet the majority of people you party with, will be on their first job.

[Dohorehn]

"Hasso/Seigan are subbable. It's a benefit to more than just Sam, and an exceptionally good benefit too for those that know how to use the abilities."


Pretty much the better parts of NIN are subbable! Including the new Monomi! This justifies a phenomenoal NIN update! ALRIGHT! lol

Seriously though, where is the NIN JA?

[ninjafox]

to be honest, if implemented correctly... job/subjob ability combos would be pretty kick ass and breathe lots of life into the game.

Also, I always had a dream of like job oriented skillchains/abilities, but it will never happen lol.

example: Ninja does something (Blade: Ten), sam does something (Tachi: Kasha) -> both ninja and sam do something unison (Rage of the East!! Fwooosh!). the same premise as a skillchain, but not really a skillchain, maybe just an extra attack + a skill chain? ok that's a bit complicated lol.

OR also I think, sort of like with Corsair rolls being powered up with having the specific job in the party. Maybe they could just have bonuses in general for having say... a PLD and a DRK... everyone would get some "Knightly" type bonus... I dunno.

You could certainly encourage some interesting party combinations, lol. And promote some older classics... Say if you had a RDM, WHM, and BLM in party you'd get like "Ancient Mages" bonus, something like an extra fixed refresh... 1 tick? Making alliances would be fun, lol.

Sorry... bored at work.

RAGE OF THE EAST (FWOOOOOSH!!!) LOL I love it!!

[ronin sparthos]

Drk/Drg
Death Wyvern
"Summons an undead wyvern"
functions like a regular wyvern but weaker.

I lol'ed. Not what you meant, just how it sounds.

Interesting ideas, but it would be a large power boost, that would render a lot of current content EZ-mode. I'm more along the lines of small adjustments over time. And yes, I know a lot of content seems like EZ mode to the end-gamers here with all the top gear and tricked-out LS's. For the majority, things are still challenging. Like the LS that has taken down Genbu, and now working on the other 3.

Games been on 'easy mode' since CoP nerfs, the hardest thing since then has probably been content no one touches. (Einherjar, 3ToAU kings, Vrtra non-zerged) The majority of players arent new, most have there feet wet with at least 1 75 under the belt. If most players were new, the issue about low level EXP being such a hard time to put together wouldnt be an issue. This game is really hard at the start, most players are turned off by that (out of 6 friends i invited to play FF, only 1 stayed)

This is strictly my opinion, the issue about low level EXP is real though.

I think you'd be surprised. Most of my parties up to 50 have been with first timers. Even beyond that, are a lot of people still on their first job. The first LS I joined, was mostly newbies of varying levels. The LS I'm in now, has been steadily working their way through Limbus, Salvage, and sky gods.

Honestly, pick a level 1 job. Start leveling it. Don't party with friends, and instead just take invites from people. I bet the majority of people you party with, will be on their first job.

Probably varies on servers, its pretty tough getting EXP pts together before level 50 since i last EXP'd. The main issue is more the case that regardless of new or old players the same failures of the EXP system remain in place, partly because of playerbase desires to stick to what is known and SEs lack to nudge the playerbase to try something new.

An entire expansion pack is going to waste when it obviously caters to lower-level players (like new players) but due to the fact that it doesnt Aht Urhgan you (basically tell you to EXP here and theres no if-ands or buts) that its going to end up like CoP where many of the alternative and in ways 'better' camps will go to waste. Not even the high level camps are catching praise like ToAU did within the week of release (remember the OH SHIT exp/hr)

Nudge the playerbase to try the new places out, with incentives to do so - even the 'new' players. Colibri/Ladybugs in Ronfaure / Birds in Vunkerl / Crabs/Pugils in Vunkerl / Lycopodiums around Jeuno / Hippogryphs in Grauberg - just a few camps that are pretty much throwaways because they will never catch fire like same old, same old EXP zones from 2004. I like how toAU basically kicked the playerbase in the nuts and changed things, WoTG should have done the same.

.... or rename the expansion 'Campaign', since thats the only thing catching fire.

[Kenji]

Probably varies on servers, its pretty tough getting EXP pts together before level 50 since i last EXP'd. The main issue is more the case that regardless of new or old players the same failures of the EXP system remain in place, partly because of playerbase desires to stick to what is known and SEs lack to nudge the playerbase to try something new.

An entire expansion pack is going to waste when it obviously caters to lower-level players (like new players) but due to the fact that it doesnt Aht Urhgan you (basically tell you to EXP here and theres no if-ands or buts) that its going to end up like CoP where many of the alternative and in ways 'better' camps will go to waste. Not even the high level camps are catching praise like ToAU did within the week of release (remember the OH SHIT exp/hr)

Nudge the playerbase to try the new places out, with incentives to do so - even the 'new' players. Colibri/Ladybugs in Ronfaure / Birds in Vunkerl / Crabs/Pugils in Vunkerl / Lycopodiums around Jeuno / Hippogryphs in Grauberg - just a few camps that are pretty much throwaways because they will never catch fire like same old, same old EXP zones from 2004. I like how toAU basically kicked the playerbase in the nuts and changed things, WoTG should have done the same.

.... or rename the expansion 'Campaign', since thats the only thing catching fire.

Leveling up again, I actually had 1 invite to Ronfaure[S]. However, the party died before I got there, lol.

Anyway, this is where the more experience players here need to step up. I've heard the argument that end-gamers are important, because they set the example to the other players. Well, now's your chance. Start forming the parties out there. Spread the word for everyone to get all their maws. Start showing people where to party. A lot of the new people don't know where to party, so they rely on a rank 10 person to lead them. I'd like to get more personal experience with these wotg camps, but I'm not entirely sure sometimes, of where to camp exactly, and what level ranges of a party are best, so I can't lead someone out there. (now that I am higher level, I'm beginning to read up on other xp camps, and where to party).

But if I had someone on their 4th or 5th job, who'd been there before, and is willing to lead... Plus, without the AC (like my server is at the moment), Sigil is actually better than Sanction.

[ronin sparthos]

Probably varies on servers, its pretty tough getting EXP pts together before level 50 since i last EXP'd. The main issue is more the case that regardless of new or old players the same failures of the EXP system remain in place, partly because of playerbase desires to stick to what is known and SEs lack to nudge the playerbase to try something new.

An entire expansion pack is going to waste when it obviously caters to lower-level players (like new players) but due to the fact that it doesnt Aht Urhgan you (basically tell you to EXP here and theres no if-ands or buts) that its going to end up like CoP where many of the alternative and in ways 'better' camps will go to waste. Not even the high level camps are catching praise like ToAU did within the week of release (remember the OH SHIT exp/hr)

Nudge the playerbase to try the new places out, with incentives to do so - even the 'new' players. Colibri/Ladybugs in Ronfaure / Birds in Vunkerl / Crabs/Pugils in Vunkerl / Lycopodiums around Jeuno / Hippogryphs in Grauberg - just a few camps that are pretty much throwaways because they will never catch fire like same old, same old EXP zones from 2004. I like how toAU basically kicked the playerbase in the nuts and changed things, WoTG should have done the same.

.... or rename the expansion 'Campaign', since thats the only thing catching fire.

Leveling up again, I actually had 1 invite to Ronfaure[S]. However, the party died before I got there, lol.

Anyway, this is where the more experience players here need to step up. I've heard the argument that end-gamers are important, because they set the example to the other players. Well, now's your chance. Start forming the parties out there. Spread the word for everyone to get all their maws. Start showing people where to party. A lot of the new people don't know where to party, so they rely on a rank 10 person to lead them. I'd like to get more personal experience with these wotg camps, but I'm not entirely sure sometimes, of where to camp exactly, and what level ranges of a party are best, so I can't lead someone out there. (now that I am higher level, I'm beginning to read up on other xp camps, and where to party).

But if I had someone on their 4th or 5th job, who'd been there before, and is willing to lead... Plus, without the AC (like my server is at the moment), Sigil is actually better than Sanction.

Im a huge fan of alternative EXP and ask the many people ive dragged around on Lakshmi to different camps (selfishly... i'll admit ) that it CAN be alot of freakin fun once you get past the 'hey man this isnt my comfort zone, this might go bad' aspect. The problem is though that endgamers/smarter people can only do so much - no player has the power SE has every 3months to come from the heavens and say 'this EXP camp is now uber, new and fun' and encourage EXP in these areas.

Ive written guides, tips and pointers to getting everything from CoP done to Runic Portals - alternative EXP camps and all that fun stuff but the fact is that players do not compare to SE who calls the ultimate shots. If SE presents these new WoTG camps as good then you bet your ass every player new or old will be going there. Sanction did that back in ToAU, it got players out of the Conquest Zones forever - something that wouldnt have happened as quickly if it wasnt so obvious.

Compare how toAU got players to use the then 'alternative' camps to WoTGs 'heres some new camps... we hope you use/not use them' and you will see its not up to the playerbase ultimately - its up to SE to present it in a new, refreshing and exciting way, even if it was a transplant of what toAU did with the Besieged system.

Simple ways of marketing these places to the playerbase could come down to something as simple as a Vanadiel Tribune-esque article on it combined with incentives. Whats most dissapointing in the update? that SE still hasnt got the majority of the player out of the status quo like they did with CoP -> ToAU.

If they 'stay the course', this expansion is going to end up just like CoP - a one-trick pony.

[Phraust]

Sure Sams were Skillchain buddies at 72+, not only getting there was impossible, it still doesn't make up for the fact the a Decently geared monk could d 4x the damage as a sam back in the day. Seriously you took a Decent monk and placed it head-to-head versus an awesome sam, the Monk would be doign 75-120/hit, 2x a round, 2x as many rounds as the sam swung for 60-70 a round and slow as shit.

Merit or not, it excluded a lot of people from being able to level jobs they liked and merit them. Going from 60-75 was nearly impossible back in the day and Merits were limited to shit parties with the other "rejects", all the support jobs were just passing invites waiting for "cannons". Back then the old saying was "Go level a merit job", you know what? That's flawed. I could say the same thing to a Mnk: "Oh boo-hoo you can't fight HNM, level an HNM job." See how stupid that is? these updates just give exceptionally flexible choices now. When a BB mnk, or a nin, or a war, or a brd, or a rdm, or a whm, pops into a party with a Sam you don't have fake DC's anymore.

Just like back in the day when Rng got Nerfed/Adjusted, all the mnks and wars were laughing... Well guess what, instead of nerfing those jobs, they buffed the alternatives. Perosonally I like having more choices now when I make a merit party, and I like having the parties I join not be gimped by having a variety of jobs.

Sam specifically: Sure, I may be not the best example of 'the middle road' but I have had enough experience to see the differences. Sams did have a hard time versus regular Wars and Non-BB mnks, even some Drks. They were hurt substantially by the Un-Buff of the 2handers, a G.Axe war is pretty close to a Ridill war nowadays, and a Mnk of any "Decent" calibre is not too far behind. Giving Sam the ability to use basically an extra WS every 5 min is just "perfect" as far as equalization goes. It generates just the right ammount of damage to balance that class. Not just in merits, Not just on HNM, but in all aspects.

Keep in mind too one of the things Monks use to always bitch about, well their healers too, was the amount of hate they pulled. You know what these additions in general do for you? They let you open up even more, because there's someone else there on your level to share the hate in other instances not just in merits. The Game is basically Farming, merits, HNM, Quests & Missions, Sam Was good for only HNM, wich unless you're a resident of DA is only about 10% of the time you spend in game, with only about 1% of total time actually spent fighting.... You think that tips anything in favor of Samurai? When a Mnk can go out and Farm, Quest, Mission, and Merit the other 90% as effectively if not more so?

Sure I am picking on Mnks, If I wanted to Bring Rdm, or Nin into this arguement the scales woudl be tipped even more drastically...

War seems to be the only Job that sustains it's usefulness and domination on melee Dmg accross all updates.

As for thief, they needed a lot of Buffs. It was an example saying that there's a lot more than just Sams gettign buffed. I mean I say it time and again, PLd basically get thier full 2hr every 5 min now... Don't see people crying about that...

I think a lot of people take their jobs for ... I mean, if you think about it, shouldn't you be happy you didn't NEED and update? There's nothing wrong with Mnk, Rdm, or Nin... So you don't get Job abilities or New shit... Try sucking for 5 years... Then you'll get something... On that note though, brds should be getting TONS of shit cause all they do is sing the same 3 songs for hours on end.

The theme of this thread, And I happy? Yes, it's basically releif for the "lower & middle class", no more "upper class" talking down to the lesser people saying "Well if you don't want to be poor just become a doctor!".

So in short I guess I will leave with this:

If you think Samurai is so over powered, then level it.

It will either lead to its eventual nerf, or you will understand your own hypocrasy & neivité...

[ronin sparthos]

Sure Sams were Skillchain buddies at 72+, not only getting there was impossible, it still doesn't make up for the fact the a Decently geared monk could d 4x the damage as a sam back in the day. Seriously you took a Decent monk and placed it head-to-head versus an awesome sam, the Monk would be doign 75-120/hit, 2x a round, 2x as many rounds as the sam swung for 60-70 a round and slow as shit.

Merit or not, it excluded a lot of people from being able to level jobs they liked and merit them. Going from 60-75 was nearly impossible back in the day and Merits were limited to shit parties with the other "rejects", all the support jobs were just passing invites waiting for "cannons". Back then the old saying was "Go level a merit job", you know what? That's flawed. I could say the same thing to a Mnk: "Oh boo-hoo you can't fight HNM, level an HNM job." See how stupid that is? these updates just give exceptionally flexible choices now. When a BB mnk, or a nin, or a war, or a brd, or a rdm, or a whm, pops into a party with a Sam you don't have fake DC's anymore.

Just like back in the day when Rng got Nerfed/Adjusted, all the mnks and wars were laughing... Well guess what, instead of nerfing those jobs, they buffed the alternatives. Perosonally I like having more choices now when I make a merit party, and I like having the parties I join not be gimped by having a variety of jobs.

Sam specifically: Sure, I may be not the best example of 'the middle road' but I have had enough experience to see the differences. Sams did have a hard time versus regular Wars and Non-BB mnks, even some Drks. They were hurt substantially by the Un-Buff of the 2handers, a G.Axe war is pretty close to a Ridill war nowadays, and a Mnk of any "Decent" calibre is not too far behind. Giving Sam the ability to use basically an extra WS every 5 min is just "perfect" as far as equalization goes. It generates just the right ammount of damage to balance that class. Not just in merits, Not just on HNM, but in all aspects.

Keep in mind too one of the things Monks use to always bitch about, well their healers too, was the amount of hate they pulled. You know what these additions in general do for you? They let you open up even more, because there's someone else there on your level to share the hate in other instances not just in merits. The Game is basically Farming, merits, HNM, Quests & Missions, Sam Was good for only HNM, wich unless you're a resident of DA is only about 10% of the time you spend in game, with only about 1% of total time actually spent fighting.... You think that tips anything in favor of Samurai? When a Mnk can go out and Farm, Quest, Mission, and Merit the other 90% as effectively if not more so?

Sure I am picking on Mnks, If I wanted to Bring Rdm, or Nin into this arguement the scales woudl be tipped even more drastically...

War seems to be the only Job that sustains it's usefulness and domination on melee Dmg accross all updates.

As for thief, they needed a lot of Buffs. It was an example saying that there's a lot more than just Sams gettign buffed. I mean I say it time and again, PLd basically get thier full 2hr every 5 min now... Don't see people crying about that...

I think a lot of people take their jobs for ... I mean, if you think about it, shouldn't you be happy you didn't NEED and update? There's nothing wrong with Mnk, Rdm, or Nin... So you don't get Job abilities or New shit... Try sucking for 5 years... Then you'll get something... On that note though, brds should be getting TONS of shit cause all they do is sing the same 3 songs for hours on end.

The theme of this thread, And I happy? Yes, it's basically releif for the "lower & middle class", no more "upper class" talking down to the lesser people saying "Well if you don't want to be poor just become a doctor!".

So in short I guess I will leave with this:

If you think Samurai is so over powered, then level it.

It will either lead to its eventual nerf, or you will understand your own hypocrasy & neivité...

Sam was a good SC buddy and requested party member up until 65, where the job took a landslide in EXP invites due to the fact that everyone wanted light over darkness - Ranger was still broken back then as well - so everyone was looking like shit compared to a ranger. Sam had its flaws back, it swung slow, misses were huge issues but so did every other 2handed job in the game back then. (DRG not so much, but DRK and SAM? Yeah, Issues)

Monk also had its flaws back then as well - it didnt make Distortion until 60 which was turn-off #1, everyone fought crabs/beetles and hardshelled mobs so dmg got gimped turnoff #2 and overall the playerbase didnt really care for a MNK over the jobs that could do the status quo skillchains. (This is before people realized the pros of a MNK) So both jobs had flaws and both jobs had issues that were adressed by SE and the playerbase respectively.

Sam was only good on HNM? Same could be said about MNK in 2004 - it was only good on bones in KRT. This was the flawed logic that was entinguished with the rise of lateCoP/ToAU. Sam is now a monster in all aspects of the game, played correctly and could be labeled the RNG of 2008. Monk is a DoT monster with versitility (combined with /nin, something again laughed about in '04) and tanking capabilities, it still lacks in HNM and it still lacks surviving without a nin sub... but who doesnt due to other issues. Both jobs have come a long way - lets move on to jobs still starving for attention.

I think a lot of people take their jobs for ... I mean, if you think about it, shouldn't you be happy you didn't NEED and update? There's nothing wrong with Mnk, Rdm, or Nin... So you don't get Job abilities or New shit... Try sucking for 5 years... Then you'll get something... On that note though, brds should be getting TONS of shit cause all they do is sing the same 3 songs for hours on end.

I'll agree, MNK RDM and NIN dont need anything *huge* moreso the desire to want something just to play with but the fact is that SAM is now 'fixed' and other jobs must be addressed. The job once had many flaws that made it pale to faster 1handers or rangers but now the playing field is levelled and slightly tipped and the need for buffs vanished. Ridills and Black Belts are super-items, they are supposed to tip the scales/rebalance them.

The enmity towards SAM and DRK to a lesser extent is the fact that many jobs have been starving in the wake of these two jobs attention every update. RNG is like the old man who brags about what he did 40years ago, Black Mage has held its niche ground on endgame/magically susceptible monsters but it as well can only brag about the 'good old days', Beastmaster im convinced is just something SE doesnt see as important to change - since ive played the game it has gotten nothing but minor tweaks and has never been the 'in' job.

If you think Samurai is so over powered, then level it.

I have, back when SAM was a laughingstock and everyone wanted to be a ranger - now the time has come for SE to leave samurai to gear/item updates and fix the other jobs - the job has come a long way and its good now.

It will either lead to its eventual nerf, or you will understand your own hypocrasy & neivité..

The only naive people in this situation are people who think SAM needs a massive overhaul compared to the other jobs in this game now - SAM can go sit with RDM, MNK and somewhat NIN - its good the way it is and only needs slight tweaks.