What do you think?

[Phraust]

Sure, but all the updates were needed. I was speaking of a more "1 year ago" aspect, not a "back in 2002" aspect.

Things weren't honky-dory for sam. You keep saying it was powerful etc but passed for more compatable jobs, yet they weren't... But your last post, it seems we're at least on the same page as far as current events. No, sam doesn't need anything more. And you basically repeated what I said to a lesser extent, now that the playing field is even other more "ignored" jobs can get a few new toys, but without the current fixes to less desired jobs nothing else would be possible.

To be honest I didn't think SE smart enough to make the jobs equal without homoginizing them. I kinda like the way they made things skew towards their strengths. I was dreading they would make all melee a bland smack-fest. It's really a breath of fresh air that they highlighted the reasons people played the jobs.

[ronin sparthos]

SE doesnt need to water down all the melee jobs moreso they need to create some more unique weapons to help enhance the jobs they have, like fleshing out the Hagun into a staple series of weapons built around Samurai needs or more weapons that enhance certain weaponskills. Its kind of disheartening seeing the junky weapons they churn out that obviously dont compare to the already staple weapons.

The idea really should be expanded to many of the melee weapons, its kinda funny they do it with stuff like Amoods; a weapon with the stupidest weapon latent effect ever - and its even funnier they keep doing it. Amood looks badass but fucking lol at the latent proc. Hexaguns look nice as well but bullets are expensive and a tiny amount of racc isnt going to change that fact - which is why they go by the wayside. Is that the extent of the creativity pool? Moon-procs and racc to compensate for low damage?

[Hyan]

I'm just glad the complaining has switched from "why aren't broken jobs getting any updates" to "why aren't 98% balanced jobs getting any updates?" It's better this way, I suppose.

I do think it was a bad choice from SE to not update BLM with SCH though!

[Sesshoumaru]

Sam is fine not OP but fine, inviting a Sam to a merit isn't goign to have the effect of inviting a ridil war. Sam have a role in endgame, but they are not Drks even with the haste nerf Drks > all other melee for zerg. Can we stop the omg omg SAM are soooo OP bs and get back on topic.

RDMs Drk Pld Nin etc etc are very well and fine the way they are can they be fixed sure eveyr job can however we talking squeezing a few extra horse power out of a muscle car. Others jobs like Bst (which imo is the worst case atm with perhaps pup, dunno since the update how pups are faring) have absolutely no role in the game at all outside of a singularization of Beastly content. Bst do not get merit invites, they suck in merits compared to other jobs, a pimped bst does not have a chance vs pimped wars mnks etc etc. Bst suck at endgame content for the most part also. Sure bst can kite some stuff and do some other odd end things but other jobs can do that too and offer a lot more to the endgame scene then bst do. Salvage and Bst... lol. You can pretty much put lol in front of most aspects of this game and provide a lot of evidence to show how Bst just don't perform. So basically Bst is a jillopi(sp) that can easily be made into one of those muscle cars but for soem reason SE ignores Bst and gives it lol updates that are equivalent to putting more cup holders in a jillopi, its nice to have more places to put the steaming hot coffee but having a working transmission would be better.

So while SE plays around tweaking already adequate jobs they slowly work there way through fixing stuff that should of been fixed before it was even implemented and then some day in the far future jobs that really need some fixing might get the work they really need. However I doubt FFXI is still going to be around 15 years from now.

[Sesshoumaru]

The Dancer job ability "Samba" was effective on player's pets.

Too bad this was a bug, but it was really too much of me to assume that SE would be anywhere near as smart as that.

[Plow]

Well shit if we're having a big qq fest about what jobs need now..


How bout something for wars other than fucking fafhogg?! Relic is back to sub-par status from what I understand, why is there just nothing to shoot for on war that doesn't involve faf? Even outside e.body/ridill, you still need nhead/legs, it's really pretty damn silly...



Also, I don't think sam needs to be nerfed by any means, but I would really like to know who's still freakin sitting there at SE after all this and going "Man we need to make SAM better!"


on topic: wtb cop with no level caps, outright plain and simple that's all there is to it dammit

and lofugginlretaliation

[Sesshoumaru]

Well shit if we're having a big qq fest about what jobs need now..


How bout something for wars other than fucking fafhogg?! Relic is back to sub-par status from what I understand, why is there just nothing to shoot for on war that doesn't involve faf? Even outside e.body/ridill, you still need nhead/legs, it's really pretty damn silly...



Also, I don't think sam needs to be nerfed by any means, but I would really like to know who's still freakin sitting there at SE after all this and going "Man we need to make SAM better!"


on topic: wtb cop with no level caps, outright plain and simple that's all there is to it dammit

and lofugginlretaliation

You are making an equipment argument... Every one else was talking about actual job changes not what drops what. Oh and btw Bst is pretty much on the same tract as War when it come to what drops DD gear.

[Plow]

Well shit if we're having a big qq fest about what jobs need now..


How bout something for wars other than fucking fafhogg?! Relic is back to sub-par status from what I understand, why is there just nothing to shoot for on war that doesn't involve faf? Even outside e.body/ridill, you still need nhead/legs, it's really pretty damn silly...



Also, I don't think sam needs to be nerfed by any means, but I would really like to know who's still freakin sitting there at SE after all this and going "Man we need to make SAM better!"


on topic: wtb cop with no level caps, outright plain and simple that's all there is to it dammit

and lofugginlretaliation

You are making an equipment argument... Every one else was talking about actual job changes not what drops what. Oh and btw Bst is pretty much on the same tract as War when it come to what drops DD gear.

No, the thing is that without a ridill, a war is basically subpar these days... a good nin can keep up with an axe war offensively while being stronger defensively, a monk is considerably stronger in both offense and defense, thief probably equal offense, defense wise it depends on if it's something you can dodge but overall the thief is generally stronger, same with drg which is much more versatile, drk has similar dmg and defense but some much better tricks, etc, etc.

You're pretty much a ridill war or you're behind everything else, especially if you don't have other faf drops, while a monk can pretty much get the absolute best gear possible without ever competing for a claim outside the low tier sky nm's.

Now if retaliation were actually even worth the macro space it might have made things a little better, but it's utter trash.


Basically it's just that the whole job is limited by the potential that you might someday have a ridill, to the point where if you never do, you're just never as good as the other jobs.

[Alexandor]

Gotta disaggree, I can keep up quite easily with RidillWARs eventho I'm using Maneater/Joytoy with just 8 Axe Merits. In a 3h PT I'm maybe like 2% total dmg behind w/ initial voking and a good amount of hate. Don't know why you're going so emo over that Ridill. Of course it would be nice to have one, then again it's seriously not a must. If you can't keep up with other DD jobs, you're doing something wrong duh <.<

[Plow]

Gotta disaggree, I can keep up quite easily with RidillWARs eventho I'm using Maneater/Joytoy with just 8 Axe Merits. In a 3h PT I'm maybe like 2% total dmg behind w/ initial voking and a good amount of hate. Don't know why you're going so emo over that Ridill. Of course it would be nice to have one, then again it's seriously not a must. If you can't keep up with other DD jobs, you're doing something wrong duh <.<

The fact that average people suck does not change the fact that with basically equal gear sans ridill I could do more damage on most things as well as be stronger defensively as monk than on warrior.

If you keep up with ridill wars with a joytoy, it's not because joytoy is anywhere remotely near a ridill.

[Sesshoumaru]

Think about this Plow even with a ridil, or Bst equivalent temp axe, Bst still can't touch most DD. chew on that for a moment then say its QQ when bst ask for some kind of update that isn't total BS. Wars at leats have a shot at being good Bst simply don't have a chance in hell, unless the rest of the group / alliance is super noob or dead most of the time, then Bst shine ^^ as we have a few neat tricks to keep ourselves alive. But seriously if keeping your self alive was what this game was about then we wouldn't need Raises would we or tanks? Simple fact a AH War will beat a Pimp non temp axe Bst toss on some nice ra/ex even sans ridill and that war gives the temp/pimp Bst a run for his money. This is of course all the while the Bst is tossing money away in jugs( LDL ain't cheap). Monks on the other hand have their own issue with hate etc etc. pimped Mnk/nin isn't so hot compared to a pimped war/nin, sans rid. Then if you want to compare endgame lolbst vs war, I don't even have to go into it.

point is There are jobs which need updates way more then some of the jobs SE has been giving attention too. But it seems every time SE steps up to bat they break their leg on the walk up to the plate.

[Phraust]

Gotta disaggree, I can keep up quite easily with RidillWARs eventho I'm using Maneater/Joytoy with just 8 Axe Merits. In a 3h PT I'm maybe like 2% total dmg behind w/ initial voking and a good amount of hate. Don't know why you're going so emo over that Ridill. Of course it would be nice to have one, then again it's seriously not a must. If you can't keep up with other DD jobs, you're doing something wrong duh <.<

I think you may have just discovered the absolutely most gimped Ridill Wars in the History of Final Fantasy Online.

Of course there is the slimest chance they you never once pulled hate or had to cast ever the entire time, but having read you were first voke, and that you had "a good amount of hate" I'd have to call Bullshit.

There is no way you could conceivably be "easily" a mere 2% behind a Ridill war using Man/Joy; let alone your allusion to multiple Ridill Wars with the inclusion of an 's' at the end...

Unless:
1) you happen to be in a group with the most idiotic healers/support that let said Ridill wars die frequently.
2) you were the only one using food and getting buffs.
3) you have found a set of Ridill wars that AFK a lot.
4) the Ridill wars never Weaponskill.
5) the Ridill wars Melee in WS gear, or full Hecatomb.
6) the Ridill wars only WS at 300%TP.
7) you're Jesus.

Think Plow hit the perverbial nail on the head. Most wars are pretty useless unless they bank their time in Aery. I never really thought of it like that 'til now.

[Plow]

Yeah, and I don't mean to put down bst or anything, I was just tossing it out there cuz there was stuff about mnk needing new stuff and of course sam getting new stuff etc (let's not even get into sam vs non-ridill war at this point /sigh)


Anyway, I guess it's just me saying the same thing people have said for years, if you want to be a premier melee dd you're either a monk back then, a monk or samurai now, or you're in aery until you get a decent rate drop from faf, a retarded low drop from faf, and 2 drops from nid. That... just sucks.


Also I wouldn't say axe or axe/joy or even a well set up gaxe war is useless at this point, just that everything they can do someone else can do better... by a fair amount at that.


p.s. I was reading the other opinion thread right before I read this one, so I may have mixed up where some of the more qqish stuff was heh.

[Max™]

What the fuck? Is this 2006 again? War is shit without a Ridill?

Did people suddenly fucking forget not only the 2h update, but goddamn crit TP raging rush?

I mean seriously man, did you just copy/paste that last like 5 or 6 posts out of an old War vs Whatever thread from a couple years ago?

Bravura is sub par? Jesus christ, so much unadulterated stupid in one place I think I'm going to have to go stomp on a squirrel.

[Plow]

What the fuck? Is this 2006 again? War is shit without a Ridill?

Did people suddenly fucking forget not only the 2h update, but goddamn crit TP raging rush?

I mean seriously man, did you just copy/paste that last like 5 or 6 posts out of an old War vs Whatever thread from a couple years ago?

Bravura is sub par? Jesus christ, so much unadulterated stupid in one place I think I'm going to have to go stomp on a squirrel.

Perhaps with full ares and bravura the gap is nearly covered to eliminate faf (although I'd wager ebody + ngear would outparse it consistently), but that's a fairly lofty objective to be competitive as compared to say, destroyers, a black belt, and sky gear.


Also I haven't messed with 2h lately, which is why I said "from what I understand," as I'd been told they were pretty much back near where they started out at this point. I guess I heard wrong.

[Alexandor]

Might be 7 ;x

Nah but seriously now, of course Ridill Wars should/will outDD me. I usually merit at Bhaflau N camp on mamools/puks/Wyverns when I'm on my war (Dual brd is a given).. So the parse is screwed depending for example if I'd only rampage weak mobs like Puks for high dmg but that isn't the case. There are many sidefactors kicking in. For example if someone used rampaged on an almost dead mob to keep up the chain, or he didn't get full tp gain of his rampages, different mobs, maybe it wasn't worth to ws at all so you keep tp for the next mob etc. Most people go with 5/5 Berserk/Aggressor once they obtained a Ridill, in my case it's 3/3 4 DA which might proc on WSs more often as well. Stuff like that. I'm not claiming to be able to keep up with Ridill/Joytoy wars on Birds for example since they're weak to it but then I got other jobs to exp with at that area.

Anypoo my point was just that I disaggree that WARs without Ridill can't keep up with the other melee classes. The new jobtrait is kinda useless, I aggree. But then again WARs got awsome lvl1Merits/Warrior's charge + good GAxe skill to fark up endgame stuff so they shouldn't somewhat complain

[Antz]

Alex can keep up just fine, but thats Alex. He has some pretty nice gear for his WAR tho, not the "average" gear most people have. I can keep up w/ an LS member that has an Ebody/Ridill, I have Ridill myself but i use Hauby+1, can't outdamage him, but i can keep up w/ him fairly easily. 3 Berserk/3 Aggressor/ 4 DA, but thats just how i like it tbh.

[Phraust]

So...

#7 then?

[Guyverarmor]

Whoa, Alexandor! haven't seen you since Avail!

[Lordender]

so much BS in this thread holy fuck.

Keep believing 2h'ers are back to their prior boost days.

take two pimped out wars of different builds/merits who aren't newbs. 6hit build, 5DA, 5berserk GAXE vs a 5ber/5aggressor man/ridill that Gaxe will win more times than people would think. You will rape the GAXE with melee dot but that GAXE will rape you extremely hard on WS damage which will be why the GAXE wins.