Your Salvage "Point" System

[Gaea]

Salvage, itself, is so unique that it seems to difficult to apply any standard point system. Virtually every Salvage group I've encountered has their own unique point system which is usually a modified version of some greater system. While some are probably better than others, the more successful linkshells no doubtely probably owe a bit of their success to a good system that everyone is comfortable with.

Salvage attendance is very important. The absence of one job can alter or even cancel an entire run. People may feel inclined to skip a salvage run out of laziness if there's no incentive for them to really come. This is especially the case when they don't have a keen interest in the drops for that run.

So, what is your system and what do you do to encourage attendance?

Here are some systems I've encountered that seem to function:

• Organizer is attempting to achieve certain piece. If that piece drops they get it. Other pieces are lotted by applicable people who comment for it prior to the run. Uncommented pieces are free lot to people who plan to upgrade it.
  [/*:m:1zsoi858]
• Tiered lotting system that allows for a person to target pieces within multiple sets. This system seems a little complicated, but from what I gather, you set up a primary priority on 2 pieces and a secondary priority on 3 pieces. They can be any 5 pieces (regardless of set or equipment type) and you can only lot within your primary. In the event that a piece drops that nobody has set as their primary, anyone with it set as a secondary can lot.
  [/*:m:1zsoi858]
• Route is established before run. Comment on piece (or set) that you want. Pass everything else. If your piece doesn't drop, oh well.
  [/*:m:1zsoi858]
• Attendance based point system that allocates people into different lotting tiers and prioritizes those with the highest score.
  [/*:m:1zsoi858]
• Flat point system that prioritizes the person with the highest score.[/*:m:1zsoi858]

My system is the attendance based point system and only applies to LV25 and 35 pieces. A level 15 piece automatically goes to anyone with the 25 and 35 piece regardless of anyone's score. Otherwise its lotted by anyone commented for that set To encourage attendance your score can up or down depending on your attendance. Missing runs can put you in a lower lotting tier. Even though we usually only have about 7-10 people per run, we have enough people to whereas there's two or three people commented for each set so there's a sense of competition and an incentive to make as many possible runs. Thusfar, it's worked quite well and many people enjoy it. Since most people are targeting a single set, and for simplicity sake, you can only target one set at a time in our group. If you complete the pieces of the set you are currently targeting, you can switch sets. You can also obtain any pieces that go free lot if you have a qualifying job (in the event the people that are commented for that system have the piece or don't want it).


So, what's your system? The intent of this post is to share ideas that encourage fair systems, provide incentives for attendance, and iron out major flaws.

[Zhais]

For the most part, I keep track of attendance and just say who lots what. I base it mainly off of the # of attendance, and try to fulfill the priorities of people who have the most attendance and least loot and such.

And yet some people have complained about that even

[Gaea]

LOL my system is pretty much the same as yours then except I set up a formula that produces the logarithmic result of several attendance factors. That way, I don't hear any dispute on who's "earned" something more than another person.

If you have Open Office and you are interested in it I'd be happy to share my little creation. ^^ If you understand logical and mathematical functions in a spreadsheet environment, then you just have to set up a cell for each member with the following formula.

=IF((SUM((LOG(SUM(t;c);(SUM(l;a))));m))>1;1;(SUM((LOG(SUM(t;c);(SUM(l;a))));m)))

t = member's total attendance
c = member's current consecutive attendance chain
a = the number of runs the LS has done since the member joined
l = total number of runs the LS has done
m = an exemplary point modifier

Then all you have to do is tick off attendance and everyone is given a score ^^ The maximum value in this system is "1". Everything else is a fraction thereof. .9 or higher is the highest lotting tier. .7 and .5 are tiers 2 and tiers 3. It doesn't take long for consecutive perfect attendance to wriggle its way to tier 1 but missing a run can bump you to tier 2 and you have to make a couple more consecutive runs to get back up to tier 1! Just 1 missed run can give another person priority for that run and possibly the next so everyone anxiously tries to keep their attendance as high as possible! Depending how far into tier 1 you are is one of the factors that decides if you'll bump down to tier 2 on a missed run.

[pchan]

I have 2 salvage groups. In the first one :

Everyone picks a set and cannot lot piece from the other set. Attendance gets you points which you can use (aka points reset to ZERO) when a piece drop (25 or 35). Advantage is you give armor to people that come a lot, disavantage is you can come a lot and want to save for your dream piece. One of our monks saved his points and had to pass on 2 usukane feet.

Second group :

Divide Silversea and Arrapgo remnants (and bhaflau) into 2 routes (dekka/powderdek, flayer/bhoot), which puts you into 6+ possible routes. For each route pick a set to lot on. For example if you have BLU and WAR, you can lot morrigan on the Flayer route and Ares on the bhoot route. For each attended run you get one point. Winning a 35 is -5 points, a 25 is -3 points, a 15 is -1 points. If you get negative points or if you win a 35 you cannnot lot for 2 runs. advantage : if you can't make it everytime you still have a chance at 35 because those attending a lot will get -points from winning drops. Also, the muliple route lottting makes it possible for you to be interested in all routes if you have multiple jobs. disavantage : people that make it everytime tend to have low points .. <3 my salvage group !

[Budonez]

I don't see why people need systems for salvage. I myself, personally, composed a group of close friends and just started doing salvage like that. We all know who's getting whatever armor right away. On a note: We do have lists that prioritize what armor people want.

[Gaea]

I don't see why people need systems for salvage. I myself, personally, composed a group of close friends and just started doing salvage like that. We all know who's getting whatever armor right away. On a note: We do have lists that prioritize what armor people want.

Oh theoretically that's the best kind of team especially if all your friends want to do ALOT of salvage. Unfortunately, my group has me, three good friends that want Salvage and the rest we had to recruit. When introducing people that don't know each other, an established "system" seems to work best just for the lack of confusion.

Our LS also doesn't minus points for getting a drop. Let's face it, a level 25 piece or 35 piece by itself is virtually worthless. The finished result is everyone's objective and penalizing them for getting a piece of a piece sets them back further from completing that piece. Not to mention, it's pretty easy for a person to drop from tier 1 to tier 2 just by missing a couple runs. Also, someone that completes their dream piece will probably be more likely to miss runs and drop to a lower lotting tier anyways. At any rate, people who aggressively attend every salvage, I believe should earn the right to be in the highest lotting tier. They are spending the most salvage points, the most experience points, and the most amount of time.

[Suiram]

The system my static uses is a fair system without any major flaws, but the other side of it is it doesn't provide any incentives for attendance. Indeed, it rests on the presumption that people will attend reliably without needing any additional motivation, which we have been pretty fortunate with once we settled into our group in its current form, aside from people who quit the game. It started off similar to the "pick one set" idea, but once it was discovered that you can upgrade different pieces for different sets despite the misleading NPC dialog, we adjusted it slightly to remove that unnecessary restriction.

In essence, everyone picks one piece for each armor slot. When a piece drops anyone who chose it can lot it. If someone has the 35 and the piece is a 25, they have priority over someone else who chose it who does not have the 35. A person can switch their wishlist choice up until they have lotted a 25 or 35, at which point it is locked in. Any armor that drops that wasn't chosen by anyone present (or which has already been obtained by any person in attendance who chose it) is free-lotted to anyone with a 75 job that can equip with no additional restrictions. We meet twice a week, one day is 35 farming, the other day boss, although anymore there is rarely a difference between the two in terms of what we actually kill inside, and we rotate through all the zones every week over the course of a month. As of late we now encounter situations where nobody needs anything from wishlist for the zone scheduled for that particular day, in which case we do a /random choice for zone similar to the one I'll outline below.

Even though we only are scheduled twice a week, most of us go more often. However we usually end up being part static, part outside members, so we operate in the following way. We don't decide a zone in advance--if you do, more often than not you end up with a couple people who want one zone, a couple who want another and you'll never get a full PT to go salvage. We build a solid salvage PT, then everyone votes for a zone. We then /random in proportion to the number of people who voted for a particular zone. For instance if 3 people chose Bhaflau, 1 chose Silver Seas and 1 chose Zhayolm, then a /random whose last digit was 0~5 would be bhaf, 6~7 would be silv, and 8~9 would be zhay. Then if it is a zone where you can't hit everything like Silv due to path choices or bhaflau due to time restraints, the people who had selected the winning zone get to choose the path. If there is a path dispute between them, then a subsequent random is done (this rarely happens). Once a zone and a path is decided, any person can select any 35 drop (or 25 if applicable) from that path regardless of whether they chose the winning zone or not. When something drops, anyone who seacommed it may lot, and it is free-lotted if nobody selected it.

[hopefulki]

LOL my system is pretty much the same as yours then except I set up a formula that produces the logarithmic result of several attendance factors. That way, I don't hear any dispute on who's "earned" something more than another person.

If you have Open Office and you are interested in it I'd be happy to share my little creation. ^^ If you understand logical and mathematical functions in a spreadsheet environment, then you just have to set up a cell for each member with the following formula.

=IF((SUM((LOG(SUM(t;c);(SUM(l;a))));m))>1;1;(SUM((LOG(SUM(t;c);(SUM(l;a))));m)))

t = member's total attendance
c = member's current consecutive attendance chain
a = the number of runs the LS has done since the member joined
l = total number of runs the LS has done
m = an exemplary point modifier

Then all you have to do is tick off attendance and everyone is given a score ^^ The maximum value in this system is "1". Everything else is a fraction thereof. .9 or higher is the highest lotting tier. .7 and .5 are tiers 2 and tiers 3. It doesn't take long for consecutive perfect attendance to wriggle its way to tier 1 but missing a run can bump you to tier 2 and you have to make a couple more consecutive runs to get back up to tier 1! Just 1 missed run can give another person priority for that run and possibly the next so everyone anxiously tries to keep their attendance as high as possible! Depending how far into tier 1 you are is one of the factors that decides if you'll bump down to tier 2 on a missed run.

you sir, are my new hero

as per the topic however, my Salvage group is all in LS and for the most part just friends that go together so we all kinda know who will get the next piece of X set etc.

However, a few people joined 3 months or so late so we made a tier system for the bodies, which in our group are the most sought after. The 'Founding Members' get first priority on the bodies, then everyone else. It has worked out very fairly and the pieces are distributed quite evenly.

Also if someone is 2/3 on a piece in our group, they get the 3rd uncontested, and if several people are 2/3 on that piece, they lot on it over someone who has 0 or 1 of that piece.

[Uzor]

I have 2 salvage groups. In the first one :

Everyone picks a set and cannot lot piece from the other set. Attendance gets you points which you can use (aka points reset to ZERO) when a piece drop (25 or 35). Advantage is you give armor to people that come a lot, disavantage is you can come a lot and want to save for your dream piece. One of our monks saved his points and had to pass on 2 usukane feet.

Second group :

Divide Silversea and Arrapgo remnants (and bhaflau) into 2 routes (dekka/powderdek, flayer/bhoot), which puts you into 6+ possible routes. For each route pick a set to lot on. For example if you have BLU and WAR, you can lot morrigan on the Flayer route and Ares on the bhoot route. For each attended run you get one point. Winning a 35 is -5 points, a 25 is -3 points, a 15 is -1 points. If you get negative points or if you win a 35 you cannnot lot for 2 runs. advantage : if you can't make it everytime you still have a chance at 35 because those attending a lot will get -points from winning drops. Also, the muliple route lottting makes it possible for you to be interested in all routes if you have multiple jobs. disavantage : people that make it everytime tend to have low points .. <3 my salvage group !

You forget the third group, albeit that lotting system can be a bit hard to explain. Second group is actually the third group. Why third group use a different lotting system is a whole other story that I won't go in to.

It is similar to Gaea's system, though. I have an excel spreadsheet in which I've made a couple of algorythmes based on total attendance, run attendance, and total ammount of drops. Each piece is worth different ammount of points depending on our success in Salvage. The point worth is a formula based on total attendance and total drops, and those points are then removed from people's attendance as they win Salvage pieces. This means the more members we have coming to runs, the more expensive pieces get, as it requires more runs for people to get something, in theory. The more drops we get, the cheaper they get, as we're having success in Salvage.

Thus, all I have to do is take attendance and write down drops, and the spreadsheet take care of the rest.

[Gaea]

Well anyone thats interested in my sytem I would provide a templade spreadsheet for them if they have OPEN OFFICE. its free

All you ahve to do is fill in member names and take attendance

[Ayn]

"I point, you lot".

That's my general system.

Like many people here, I don't have an elaborate system. I do try to take some things into consideration:

1 - Attendance
2 - Actual utility they'll have for a piece

Generally we have people pick three pieces and they get those as their 'priority' pieces. For awhile, the big contested piece was of course, Usukane Sune-Ate. I gave priority to NINs (since I felt the enmity would benefit them most) followed by SAMs, then Monks.

It's a case by case thing: For example, a few people in my group want a Morrigan's Robe. I tend to prioritize the BLM over the person who has BLM and RDM leveled, but has a Dalmatica.

It ends up working out.

[Scorp]

Our system is working pretty well.

Each member choses a most wanted item and set. The item doesn't have to be part of the set. If your most wanted item drops you can lot it. If no one has it picked it goes to set lotters, if no one has the set then free lot to people that have a) the gil to upgrade it/honestly plan to upgrade and b) have a job that makes use of it at 75 now.

Every 50 runs you get to nominate an extra most wanted item. People can't get lot priority in their first 20 runs unless it goes to free lot.

We are all friends and common sense also comes into it fairly regularly, but generally the more you attend = the more you get. Some people have been lucky with drops and have more upgraded items but thats just the nature of salvage. Having people forced to keep picking their next most wanted item also makes sure they are attempting to get the pieces they will get most use from.

Runs aren't planned in advance, when the alliance is made we pick a zone based on the most wanted items for the people with the least reward/runs. Or if we have unfinished 35's we go after a boss 50% ish of the time. There is no penalty for skipping runs because sods law applies and your 35 will drop the run you decide to cap that dancer sub.

[Wizerd]

My system is a simple, open-bidding system when lv25 or 35 drop. If a member has a lv35, then members without the lv35 may bid up to a max of 5 points (essentially guaranteeing the lv35 holder a winning bid with 6 points, if they aren't bidding against another lv35 holder). 2 points per run, which you can use on the run you get them (so someone's first run, they could theoretically use up to 2 points).

Bidding happens on LS when something drops, goes up until someone gives up or runs out of points. It's worked out pretty well for us, but problems arise when people decide to be nice or when they know they won't win. See below for an example.

There is no penalty for skipping runs because sods law applies and your 35 will drop the run you decide to cap that dancer sub.

Same thing happens for us. Just last night, Macha's Coat dropped for the first time in 7 months for my weekend group (only 2x a week). However, a couple people couldn't make it, including 2 that wanted the coat. The one who won it would have won it anyway, but she got away with the coat for only 1 point, because her competition wasn't there to raise the value of the item. Now she'll get away with lotting another Morrigan's piece if she wants, or an Usukane piece.

Although, the only time someone has missed a run is when they had RL obligations or fell asleep - no one's really been online doing something else while missing.

[Veli]

My system is based on attendance.. No points needed I know who comes a lot and they will get a lot..I think I'm fair with drops since just about all the people that show up daily have the same amount of drops.

[Wizerd]

My system is based on attendance.. No points needed I know who comes a lot and they will get a lot..I think I'm fair with drops since just about all the people that show up daily have the same amount of drops.

If I were to use that type of system (which would be ideal), I wouldn't base it on "how many drops" per say, so much as the value of the drops they have too. For example, one Morrigan's Robe could easily be worth all 3 of Arrapago's Chariot drops, even with Usukane Hizayoroi being awesome. Ares's Cuirass would be similar for a die hard melee who doesn't have ebody access.

[Neosutra]

I established an attendance spreadsheet of member attendance and # of 35 armor recieved. And also kept track of the 25s recieved per member.

# runs = x.
# 35s = y.
# 25s = z.

These 3 variables form a vector {x,y,z}.

I then do this for each of my members, forming adjacent vectors {x2,y2,z2} all the way to {xn,yn,zn}.

Then, using this array, I establish the covariance matrix and extract the eingvalues and einstates to rotate the system around the basis.

After that occurs I scale the matrix and recombine the eingenstates and eigenvectors to come out with the new array, and then pull out the ratio of attendance to armor and determine who can lot.

But seriously, unless you have 50 members in your salvage shell, just determine who has been farming, for how long, and those people get to lot. Its not rocket science.

[Veli]

My system is based on attendance.. No points needed I know who comes a lot and they will get a lot..I think I'm fair with drops since just about all the people that show up daily have the same amount of drops.

If I were to use that type of system (which would be ideal), I wouldn't base it on "how many drops" per say, so much as the value of the drops they have too. For example, one Morrigan's Robe could easily be worth all 3 of Arrapago's Chariot drops, even with Usukane Hizayoroi being awesome. Ares's Cuirass would be similar for a die hard melee who doesn't have ebody access.

Body drops are no big deal...If you have money to upgrade you will get it..If you don't have gil you will wait.. I had this guy in my last salvage shell that had 3/3 morrigans robe in september and STILL needs 2 more ignots to finish lol.

[Arthars]

highest points = roller
rolling anything, even free items = -1p
must have job

2 piece set priority only.
but if other from set drops, and is not from anyone's top 2, free lot for people with same set

nuff' said

plan how to spend your points, rather than make leader think of a good point system.

being a leader is already brain cracking. DONT ADD ON TO THEIR BURDEN OMGZ

[Wizerd]

Well anyone thats interested in my sytem I would provide a templade spreadsheet for them if they have OPEN OFFICE. its free

All you ahve to do is fill in member names and take attendance

Gaea your formula didn't work for me. I went to try it for shits and giggles but it just churns out a 1.00 for everyone, despite having it seemingly setup properly. Only two members (myself and 1 other) have 100% attendance from the start of the shell, but once I pasted it to the third member and made sure all the cells lined up properly, I was baffled to find a 1.0 when their values were:

t = 55
c = 14
a = 60
l = 60
m = 1

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what value I'm supposed to give to the point modifier, or if it matters, or if each side of the equation needs a different one, etc.

I wanna see how your system transfers into my group.

[Gaea]

I could give you a spreadsheet and you Just fill in member names


its an ODS file though Open Office document Spreadsheet whatever.

YOu'd need Open Office to do it. Point modifier is something i set up as an additional incentive for people to bring meds, come prepared, etc. If we meet all our salvage objectives for that day everyone can get a point. If someone does soemthing super spectactular that completely makes or breaks the success of the run they can earn a point.


Imagine someone's score being .53 If they had 4 point bonus modifier they would have a score of .57

I set the cap to 10% meaning someone could essentially build up a nice bit of padding to their lotting tier and new people who perform outstandingly could also wriggle their way into higher lotting tiers more quickly.

If you want template document let me know The formula requires you to assign cells and my template would have those all assigned. I'd just change all my member names to numbers 1 2 3 4 5 6 and youc an change the numbers to your member's names.

Fill in the attendance and you are all set.

EDIT: Here's a link Score Sheet
If you try to open it in browser it will try to use the activex control that open office installs and that seems to cause a security warning. My suggestion would be to right-click download, scan with your virus scanner (as you should always do), and open it with the office document program manually by opening CALC and clicking OPEN DOCUMENT and pointing to the file as to avoid any risk of executing something you wouldn't want.

If someone misses a run without notice. Reset their attendance chain to 0. The next run they make will put it at 1 and that will be their score for that run anyways. Nobody will actually have a "0" for their attendance chain during a run. Just set it to 0 until they show up for a run.

Every run that you expected someone to show up at, is an "applicable run". Add 1 to this number everytime they show up or don't. In the case where someone let you know they had a real life event and would be unable to make it, just leave this number alone. You should also leave their attendance chain to whatever it is currently at.

Total runs runs theyve ever made. Add 1 to this everytime they show up. Don't add anything to this if they miss a run.

Modifier. If someone does something special. Add 1 to the current number. If someone does something wrong or skips a run where they are needed badly. Penalize them by subracting how many points you think is necessary depending on the severity of what theyve done.

Total LS runs. Everytime your LS does a run. Add 1 to this.

The max anyone can get is "1". If their score would actually be something like 1.05 its reduced to 1. 1 is the max score. This is a "perfect score". The reason this is considered a perfect score is because assuming you have perfect attendance since the very first run the linkshell has ever done, your score woudl be 1 (excluding any modification)

.9 or higher is the first lotting tier for us. Anyone with a score of .9 or higher can lot a 25 or 35 in the set they are prioritized for.

.7 is the 2nd lotting tier. If there are no tier 1 lotters for a specific set it goes to tier 2.

.5 is the third lotting tier.

People who make run (particularly consecutively) can expect to bump themselves down in lottign tiers. People who make consecutive runs can expect to reach the highest lotting tier in a decent amount of time. If they have a great score, they can expect to keep it with great attendance.

The score for that run is taken before the run with attendance. Meaning, you take attendance at the start of the run and whatever everyones' point factor is after you take attendance is the number you go by for lots during that run.