Your Salvage "Point" System

[Wizerd]

I could give you a spreadsheet and you Just fill in member names


its an ODS file though Open Office document Spreadsheet whatever.

YOu'd need Open Office to do it. Point modifier is something i set up as an additional incentive for people to bring meds, come prepared, etc. If we meet all our salvage objectives for that day everyone can get a point. If someone does soemthing super spectactular that completely makes or breaks the success of the run they can earn a point.


Imagine someone's score being .53 If they had 4 point bonus modifier they would have a score of .57

I set the cap to 10% meaning someone could essentially build up a nice bit of padding to their lotting tier and new people who perform outstandingly could also wriggle their way into higher lotting tiers more quickly.

If you want template document let me know The formula requires you to assign cells and my template would have those all assigned. I'd just change all my member names to numbers 1 2 3 4 5 6 and youc an change the numbers to your member's names.

Fill in the attendance and you are all set.

EDIT: Here's a link Score Sheet
If you try to open it in browser it will try to use the activex control that open office installs and that seems to cause a security warning. My suggestion would be to right-click download, scan with your virus scanner (as you should always do), and open it with the office document program manually by opening CALC and clicking OPEN DOCUMENT and pointing to the file as to avoid any risk of executing something you wouldn't want.

Hmm ok so I did end up figuring it out on my own then. It didn't seem right but I guess it is.

Everyone is stuck between .74 and .89, except myself and the other 100% member, who are at 1. Your .9, .7, .5 lotting tiers wouldn't work since it'd be me and other guy first, followed by everyone else. Which in theory would be ok considering I have a pretty good set of members, but I guess I could always choose my own tiers if I were to use it.

Very interesting system.

[Gaea]

No problem. And yah, but consecutive runs will bring people to your level pretty quickly. Probably within a couple more runs. As you can see .9 is hard to get and maintain. It encourages the best possible attedance. Also remember, point modifiers

These are things you can award people who bring the right meds and do very well. If you see someone gobbling ethers and yag drinks, throughout a run and keeping everyone alive, that's a point. I set the cap at 10

The point of the system is to encourage attendance. You don't want to make it too easy for someone to get into the highest lotting tier and stay there and only come to runs that they want stuff in.

[Wizerd]

These are things you can award people who bring the right meds and do very well. If you see someone gobbling ethers and yag drinks, throughout a run and keeping everyone alive, that's a point. I set the cap at 10

Well, points for bringing meds and all that are great but I only require 4 things in my Salvage runs: Echo Drops (Zhayolm/Silver Seas only), Antidotes (Arrapago only), Silent Oils (Arrapago/Zhayolm only), and Prism Powders (Arrapago/Zhayolm only). If they don't bring them, they get yelled at. lol works pretty well for us.

[Gaea]

I'm referring to someone chugging vile elixirs and icarus wings when things go awry in order to bring us victory. Something SERRRIIOOUSSS.

[justinsane63]

We don't really have a system in place, everyone in the group is good friends with eachother and we just kinda go after what each person wants. Sometimes I have to force people to lot on stuff because they always try to pass it to someone else who they think might want it more. When we get a 35 we start focusing on finishing that piece up while trying to hit up other NMs on the way. I gotta say I really like the way things are now, but we have a problem in that of the 9-10 members or so we have, our usual attendence hovers in the 4-6 range due to being spread across the globe, so we've been looking into recruiting some outsiders... which I fear is gonna break the relaxed Salvage atmosphere we have going now.

We only have one set rule, and that is that when someone obtains the rare "non-chariot" piece (which are free lot to those who can use), that person then has priority on the chariot piece and the common piece since those are significantly easier to obtain.

I used to do Salvage with a larger group where everyone was mostly in it for themselves, and I gotta say it's very difficult to come up with a good system to cover the kind of flexibility that Salvage offers. For many of the pieces if you wanted to avoid spending points you could take a friend or two and go farm your NM on your Salvage group's off day. Or sometimes you'll have people doing Salvage with multiple groups to get ahead on lotting priorities. And you can't really penalize them for that kind of determination to go to 6-7 runs per week because Salvage drop rates are not the greatest.

If I had to make a point system though, I think the best way to go would be to have a set number of mandatory runs per week which award points, and some optional runs in between if you're group is pretty hardcore. Drops from the mandatory runs would be bid on, while optional runs = whatever goes. There should be a minimum and maximum bid that gives a lot of room for competition, but discourages cutthroat bidding and picking up dirt cheap loot due to circumstance. I never liked Dynamis/Limbus systems that forced people to pick a certain set or a limited number of pre-determined items because let's face it, the game is 5+ years old now, people have multiple jobs and they shouldn't be penalized for that.

But yeah, if all else fails, FREE LOT!!

[ringthree]

Wow, I just look at what people want and what they prioritize and tell the people to lot on the fly.

If you need a points system in Salvage you aren't doing it with the right people. With the way 35's drop, everyone will have 8 billion points by the time it matters.

[Gaea]

that's one of the reasons my system's highest point is 1. the other thing is, its hard to get a group of friends that can do salvage as often as you want to do salvage that can come to every scheduled event. Not every friend lives in the same time zone

A point system allows you to recruit enough people to never have to cancel runs, and gives people a sense of a progressmeter along with incentives not to skip runs.

[Darkmoon]

There was a thread on this a couple months ago:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=27375

But much like this thread it usualy comes down to:

Group of Friends + Simple system.

I started my system with a wishlist per path, you get to pick 3 items (set doesnt matter) per path, and thats your lotting order for each path. We have attendance and honestly its more of a refrence to decide tie breakers on lotting.

We do use the convention of: If you have the higher item, you get the lower item before others. So owning a 35 gets you the 25 100%, owning a 25 gets you the 15 100% (honestly only zone we dont have every 15 ever wanted is ZR, we just farm them as we need too)

We also has a special rule on Body/Head which is: If you flat out cant afford it and another can and is on the wishlist, be nice and pass. This really isnt an issue with my group tho, as the ppl that can't afford them generaly passed or put them 2nd or 3rd on lotting list so others can have first.

The only small issues I can see in my group is if we have to replace a member, The new member would be quite a bit behind the older members in lotting order due to time served.

But id have to agree with the idea that is: Salvage without a close group of friends is just not worth it.

[Gaea]

What's wrong with making new friends? I only have 3 close friends in my group but the rest of us are becoming great friends as well.

[Wizerd]

I'd have to disagree with Darkmoon and ringthree.

When I started my Salvage group, I only really knew about half of us very well. The rest I met some other way. One was from previously shouting for Salvage people, and finding out there are actually skilled people who answer shouts. Another is his friend from his LS. A few were from another Salvage LS that was absolutely sucking at the time and ended up disbanding, so they joined mine. One is their friend. Some are from my Dynamis LS.

Salvage certainly is worth it even if it isn't done with just close friends. I admit it might be slightly more efficient if it was, but my group's ~35 upgrades since August certainly isn't horrible.

[Scorp]

For groups that don't track attendance, points, rewards in any set way.

How do you decide which zone/route to take and how do you know you are targeting the items people want the most? Our system focus's people on selecting the items they want the most and gives us the ability to look at who is most deserving of a shot at those items.

Normally the set up of the party dictates the zone but its nice to have something to fall back on when it isn't obvious.

[dyluck]

from lagsave rules & organization forum, section IV: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Lagsave/inde ... wtopic=132

IV. Lotting Priority
Priority is based on several factors, but the main one is the lotting wishlist that you create. Your lotting wishlist is a list of the top 5 completed armor pieces you wish to obtain from Salvage. It may comprise either all five pieces from one set, or pieces from different sets (remember that a full set, if obtained, nets an additional set-equip stat bonus). If you have an item listed as your first priority, under normal circumstances, you have top priority on that item.

Exceptions to this are for new members (who will not receive equal priority until attending several runs) and for members who have already obtained one of the level 25 or 35 pieces needed to create a piece of armor. In order to maximize our rate of completed pieces of armor, if a member has one or both of the level 25 or 35 pieces needed to create a piece of armor, and that piece of armor is anywhere on his or her top five wishlist, he or she will automatically have top priority on the remaining pieces of armor which drop. Once completing a piece, you are permitted to add additional priorities to the end of your list, always up to a total of five items.

Finally, members who miss several consecutive runs (see section II) may have their lotting priority reduced or taken away until their attendance improves. There are no points in Lagsave; receiving armor does not reduce your priority on other armor, but attendance records are kept (for general reference). In extreme cases, priority ties may be settled by checking attendance patterns.

As extra motivation for attending regularly, for every 50 runs a member attends, his or her entire priority list is bumped up one position.

[Gaea]

As far as routes I've been trying to get us to practice the most efficient possible routes we can that can allow us to eventually target the boss. Granted my routes tend to ask alot from the LS but they are getting very good at things and very fast. I found that consistently sticking to one route also sped up the learning process.

[Geneyus]

I give myself all gear I want, then other people can have stuff I don't want.

Just kidding, we just freelot 35's we can use. There's probably a better system, but I don't think any of us care enough to make it formal. If one person has 5 items, they typically pass to people who don't have much. (Our entire group would basically pass anything to a member who's been going since day 1 and hasn't gotten anything of value <3<3 Syrus) and it works most days!

[Darkmoon]

Guess I should clarify.

I basically mean Id rather have closer trusted ppl over say just letting any joe schmoe in my Salvage group. What comes to mind are those old school Dynamis shells that were 40+ members and to get in you only needed to have a job in the 70s and a pulse(the pulse being optional). For Salvage I just feel that doesn't cut it. You want ppl that are Skilled, correct jobs, and that you know are there for the group, not there to get thier XXX and YYY and then who knows if they stay.

I'm lucky enough to have a decent sized LS to pull members from that all have tons of jobs and are friends. Being in our salvage group has actually helped me become better friends with some of those members that I really hadn't spent a lot of time out of events with.

I do conceed though, you can get some ppl in your gourp, and form some pretty good friendships due to how much time you spend together in Salvage and how close you have to interact with ppl for those crazy 100 mins a run!

[Donjarfi]

the group I run w/ does points.

2 points for attending run. 1 point for each NM killed (1 extra if bhaflau for the rampart). 5 points for boss kill.

15's are free lot unless someone has 25 and 35 of that piece (or even if they have 35 occasionally the 15 will get passed)

25's and 35's are bid upon before the run. We decide what path, leader calls each possible 35/25 drop from that path and members bid their points on them, with a possible tie if you match someones bid and they don't go higher, its a 2-way lot.

its meh... its fair IMO... most of us show up to every run unless work (i can't go to the double sunday runs;; )

[Veli]

the group I run w/ does points.

2 points for attending run. 1 point for each NM killed (1 extra if bhaflau for the rampart). 5 points for boss kill.

15's are free lot unless someone has 25 and 35 of that piece (or even if they have 35 occasionally the 15 will get passed)

25's and 35's are bid upon before the run. We decide what path, leader calls each possible 35/25 drop from that path and members bid their points on them, with a possible tie if you match someones bid and they don't go higher, its a 2-way lot.

its meh... its fair IMO... most of us show up to every run unless work (i can't go to the double sunday runs;; )

LOL..

[Gaea]

I don't know why you would LOL at his system. It's a perfectly valid and pretty sound for a solid team with members that attend every possibly run they can. A system brings order to chaos. A "you can lot but you can't because I said so" system will eventually lead to mutiny. If everyone agrees on a system no matter how elaborate or simple it is, then it's working.

My only problem with Donjarfi's system is that it could run into two possible problems. ONE: New members might be discouraged from joining. They would be so far behind in points they wouldn't get anything until the LS has pretty much run it's course. TWO: People may skip runs that don't have anything for them once they are sure they have enough points to get the items they want on the runs that do drop the pieces they need. However, if Donjarfi has got a solid team (possibly close friends and/or reliable LS mates), then neither of those two issues may even present themself making this a sound, balanced system that works for this group.

While this system would likely fail with my group, it doesn't mean it's a bad system for his. A flat point + bidding system is a common endgame system. If it works for his group, then it is certainly, not LOL.

I started this thread because I got asked what kind of system we use by an EU friend of mine that wanted to create a salvage group because he couldn't make my times. It got me thinking about how I too had to sit and work out a system I thought would work for my group and I figured there are other people that run into this problem. Salvage is an instanced system, unlike sky, and it only takes 6-8 people to do pretty much anything you could want to do in Salvage. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more salvage groups than, sea, hnm, sky, and limbus combined. I'm not saying more people, I'm just saying more independent groups. I've even heard of some larger linkshells having almost distinctly separate salvage groups because so many people want to do it. With that said, a point system is usually constructed to avoid chaos and dispute (at least a decent system will). Some people adopt their LS system or a modified version of it, some create something totally different. And what works for one shell might not work for another.

It would be nice to see friendly criticism rather than "LOL" or "QQ" so the topic stays on track

[Zhais]

One thing you can do to prevent people from 'skipping' runs...

don't plant hem out in advance



I end up doing that simply because I may not entirely know who shows up each day, so I make my decision on where to go based on who shows up, and who out of is there needs what along with attendance and such. Can probably get annoying, but keeps people on their toes, and that means they won't just blatantly skip a run where they don't get anything.

Of course, most of the members are good friends so they wouldn't skip anyhow. But I have a few people that I invited outside any friend circles.

[Gaea]

Yeah about half my LS is outside my everyday circle of friends. My LS simply uses an attendance algorithm that can fluctuate up or down with a max score of 1.0000 and a minimum score of 0.0000. All I do is enter attendance and everyone is automatically assigned into a lotting tier. People in the highest tier have priority over pieces in the set they comment for. People in the highest tier lot first. Sometimes a person is in one tier, skips a run and finds themselves a tier lower until they come to a couple consecutive runs. Attendance has always been fine, except for a reliable THF but our group never even had one. We may have someone now, though.