Your Salvage "Point" System

[rithridan]

I initially started with a group of about 12 friends I've met over the years, all mostly from the same LS. Because it wasn't really prepared well I just asked everyone which 3 items they would want giving each of them a priority (#1, #2 and #3). Using that as a list of deciding which areas to do and who could lot. Now we are a bit over 50 runs (4.5 months) old and our roster has changed somewhat with people taking breaks or generally not having enough time. There are so many things happening now that I don't really have specific rules for and I really just end up with /point. I don't like it the way it is going now and I fear that some members in my group aren't very happy with it either even though we are all friends, getting some reward over time would definately increase moral.

Some examples of stuff I didn't really prepare for and probably didn't handle very well:
* Got a Macha's Pigaches on a run where the person who should get it was there but only because I asked someone else to use his character since we needed the RDM. When it dropped I had to decide to either give it to the RDM or give it to the person next on the list who didn't have his character played for him. If I remember correctly I let both of them lot and the RDM lost the lot.
* Twice I had a Bodb's Pigaches drop where a person who doesn't have it at #1 has 2/3 while there are 1 or more people who have it at #1 who don't have Macha's Pigaches yet. Both times I opted to give the Bodb's Pigaches to the person with 2/3 so we at least have 1 complete piece instead of 2 half completed pieces. When the last Bodb's Pigaches dropped they completed someones 2nd piece of salvage gear while there was someone who didn't have the Macha's Pigaches yet who hasn't gotten a completed piece of gear yet. On the other hand the person with no salvage pieces came to roughly 50% of the runs while the person with a salvage piece came to roughly 75% of the runs.

Another big problem I'm having is our "bad" zone, SSR has given us not 1 piece of 35 gear while we have a lot of people who want those damn slops. One on hand I want to spam the zone to get us those pieces faster and on the other hand I have a lot of people who have other priorities (mainly Skadi Ledelsens/Chausses, Morrigan's Pigaches/Coat, Usukane Sune-Ate/Hizayoroi). Regarding zones I've been very gullible, when someone asks if we could do zone x I'd go out of my way to justify doing that zone instead of other zones. Or someone asks to do NM y in zone x which we normally don't do and don't have any experience with. Sometimes they are right and sometimes it ends in disaster.

The last aggrevating part is that we don't seem to make any progress in terms of kills/run. We always have the dumbest shit happening to us at the worst possible times. I can't remember the last time we didn't have someone AFKing during Salvage. Worst part is that I make those stupid mistake just as often then the next person (minus the AFKing, ~40 runs and not once did I have to afk). We have yet to pop the 6F QQTHs (always too slow), try/kill CC (LAC drops are more important to us) or do 5FN madame + 6F madame and still have time left to clear 6F and do boss (fuck chorus...)

[Darkmoon]

The last aggrevating part is that we don't seem to make any progress in terms of kills/run. We always have the dumbest shit happening to us at the worst possible times. I can't remember the last time we didn't have someone AFKing during Salvage.

What in gods name do ppl need to AFK for in Salvage? its 100 mins, before we enter i tell everyone go use Bathroom. Other then that, unless you have kids, there really is no reason to AFk in a salvage run. Its 100 mins of full attention, not some slack ass event. Think if i had a person AFK for a non-major reason in Salvage, or is slow on cell passing, I'd problay boot them. Maybe im just and ass tho :D

[Uzor]

I've never had a problem with people skipping runs if they don't need anything from that run.

The only time people skip runs is if they have work or other RL issues that collide with it, or their HNM LS or something suddenly have an unplanned Jailer of Love, which very rarely happens, and don't bother me either.

Besides, it doesn't affect us much either. 5 people have MNK lvled, 3 people have WHM lvled, 2 have BRD lvled, 3 have RDM lvled, 3 have THF lvled, and that's pretty much it for the key jobs. Usually have 9 people coming, so if someone skips, someone else can easily take their place.

[Veli]

I don't know why you would LOL at his system. It's a perfectly valid and pretty sound for a solid team with members that attend every possibly run they can. A system brings order to chaos. A "you can lot but you can't because I said so" system will eventually lead to mutiny. If everyone agrees on a system no matter how elaborate or simple it is, then it's working.

My only problem with Donjarfi's system is that it could run into two possible problems. ONE: New members might be discouraged from joining. They would be so far behind in points they wouldn't get anything until the LS has pretty much run it's course. TWO: People may skip runs that don't have anything for them once they are sure they have enough points to get the items they want on the runs that do drop the pieces they need. However, if Donjarfi has got a solid team (possibly close friends and/or reliable LS mates), then neither of those two issues may even present themself making this a sound, balanced system that works for this group.

While this system would likely fail with my group, it doesn't mean it's a bad system for his. A flat point + bidding system is a common endgame system. If it works for his group, then it is certainly, not LOL.

I started this thread because I got asked what kind of system we use by an EU friend of mine that wanted to create a salvage group because he couldn't make my times. It got me thinking about how I too had to sit and work out a system I thought would work for my group and I figured there are other people that run into this problem. Salvage is an instanced system, unlike sky, and it only takes 6-8 people to do pretty much anything you could want to do in Salvage. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more salvage groups than, sea, hnm, sky, and limbus combined. I'm not saying more people, I'm just saying more independent groups. I've even heard of some larger linkshells having almost distinctly separate salvage groups because so many people want to do it. With that said, a point system is usually constructed to avoid chaos and dispute (at least a decent system will). Some people adopt their LS system or a modified version of it, some create something totally different. And what works for one shell might not work for another.

It would be nice to see friendly criticism rather than "LOL" or "QQ" so the topic stays on track

I LOL that system because that system sucks.. I was in that linkshell and boy i tell you that system sucked. I'm sorry but the first person in that LS that got Morrigans robe didn't upgrade it in 6 months lol.. It's not a bad system on paper but when somebody doesn't come for months and comes back when it's his time to get a item that sucks..I'm basically laughing at that linkshell because it sucked IMO.. I been there done that.. Looks cool but it really aint cool unless you have a leader with control..

http://www.freewebs.com/ff11salvage/members.htm

50+ members for salvage? They don't erase old players off the roster..some of them people haven't been to a run since December but still on list lol..

[Donjarfi]

ok?
1: i just joined the LS a few weeks ago.
2: its been pretty decent from what i've seen since i've been there... maybe its gotten better since you were in it.
3: the only problem I have with it is they take too many people on runs where its not needed instead of splitting up.

I'd prefer a group of 6-8 maybe 10 people as a set static, but people in my endgame LS aren't interested or can't go at times that I would run it. I took what I could get, and its been pretty ok so far.

[Genosync]

my LS's system was /point, by me after consulting with a few people that helped me manage things, ridiculously fair and somehow I managed to keep everyone happy and rewarded based on their recent attendance and their frequency of attendance (also took into consideration a person's RL schedule that allowed them to or not to be present set nights).

everybody got stuff, and everybody got what they wanted, and it worked.

I think the other reason why it worked because I started out the LS and showed them everything to do, how to do it, and yelled and screamed like a drill sergeant until they got it right. militaristic LS is the way to go~

I also set certain jobs ahead of other jobs for pieces... like RDM > BLU > BLM for Morrigan body priority (unless going full set), Skadi Mask THF (duh), marduk going certain places... and would stick to that, unless the piece dropped and someone was going for a full set, and blah blah blah.

lots of crap. it's hard to do it and manage it right, but over the course of ~80 drops or so, I think I only made 4 mistakes.

much better than a point system. I also rewarded new people as fast as possible too, if they attended every day, and faster than they'd get things with a point system.

[Veli]

I couldn't put BLU over BLM for Robe but that's just me..

[Zhais]

I couldn't put BLU over BLM for Robe but that's just me..

blm was the first to get it in my group, rdm next when fricken QQTH drops


My problem is, if I ever need new people I'm gonna have a hard time getting them an item when we have our primary rdm with 0 pieces over 60~70 runs :\ fucking QQTH.

[tymora]

No job priority for my group.

+1 point/run
-10 points/Wanted 35
-2 to 10 points (Anonymous Bidding)/35s not in anyone's comments

We used to have a 5 point/25 that someone wants priority over others on. (Abolished)

Points are accumulating but this is generally not an issue because there are stuff the older members that no longer needs to lot so newcomers if any, can get them.

Plus newcomers gets piled by 25s anyway.

[Xisin]

our system is more of a nhonor system within the ls really, there are no points but there are priorities. people call 5 pieces of any armor in any combo as their main piece, then they are allowed as many secondaries as they please. people who main a piece get lots on w/e armor drop.

Theres alot of passing though, for instance a pair of machas cuffs were passed to me the other day when the guy who could of lotted against me could of easily destroyered my sub 330 lot. heres a link to our chart, Kurri did a nice job getting it together


http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...7HjAJ_Fw&gid=0

you can definatly tell the people who go 7 times a week as opposed to 2 times a week but to make things fair lotting is based on days. This is to assure that the people who have a hard time with AP have a chance. we have pairings of days. Mon/weds Tues/Thurs. Fri/Sun and sat is a day to itself.

[LakshmiToralyn]

Standard DKP. 2pts per run. 1 for partial


35's are lotted based on points(no job priority). 35s values are assigned based on utility/rarity.


Once a 35 is obtained we complete that piece and then resume farming 35s.

15/25 are open lot to anyone who wants to upgrade that piece. (unless a person has the 35, they get them automatically)

If a person misses 2 weeks in runs they cannot lot until they come back for 2 weeks of runs.

Run selection is based on how many of the top point holders wanted items can be hit in a certain run.

[Caerloc]

We just gather 6 ppl within the ls, pick a zone, pick a 35 each and go.
25's are so much freelot its not even funny. I'm 4/5 - 5/5 on marduk, morrigan and usukane 25. I have horrible luck on 35's i pick tho. Mostly they dont drop, and if they do i loose lot lol.