ITS ON NOW, Denmark!

[Faris]

I was gonna post w/e pics I could find on google of jesus being made fun of in some way and then say that the christian society should take down the internet for supporting such pictures... But there were so many pictures, I just couldn't choose :/ (SP had to do)
Guess how many pics were found if I changed Jesus to Muhammed, then searched? that's right. the one single picture. The only thing worth discussing is why someone would even get angry cause of said picture... Hardly worth discussing reasons for making it.

Valid point, but you cant force what you accept on us..we are different people, whatever happened to respecting other beliefs and cultures?
please dont bring terrorism and all that bullshit in this...we are all against it, we are all trying to stop it.


Ladyofhonor, im just going to ignore anything you say, you're just annoying and immature.

Let me guess, Germany too?

I heard england too. in that park where you can say whatever you want, forgot the name.

[Delta_9]

Their government not stepping in for not breaking any laws is not supporting it, genius.

but didn't their prime minister wear a T-shirt with the cartoons printed on it?
It is harming their government, so they are involved in this whether they like it or not.

Their PM isn't allowed free speech or to have an opinion? It would be one thing if it was a government funded organization but it isn't.

A prime minister is a very strong representative of what we call a government, and to be seen in public wearing such cartoons, clearly represents his full support to the cartoons. Nobody else representing the government said anything other than, "its freedom of speech, and its their right to publish that sort of thing". I think freedom of speech stops when a whole community, plus a country's income, reputation and moral is at stake....
man, a guy says nigger at a comedy show and people revolt. I heard in some countries speaking publicly of the holocaust is a crime, and you can be arrested, those countries are in the west, where freedom of speech exists, apparently.

You're still not getting it. Its his right to say what he wants. Yeah maybe not the best choice ever, but when he is up for re-election Denmark's citizens will decide. Not you and not anyone else. The government as a whole did nothing but defend its citizens. As for the holocaust bit: I've never heard of anyone being arrested for it, but if someone was, that would be on par with totally denying the holocaust ever happened .

[Kuya]

Respecting another culture's beliefs ends when an unusual amount of them decide it's ok to publicaly call for the death of others and violently protest about it. This wasn't some nice little rally decrying the pictures, it was full blown violence and masses calling for the execution of the drawers. This is where i get off the happy-respect everybody's culture-liberal train. Fuck that.

[archibaldcrane]

Valid point, but you cant force what you accept on us..we are different people, whatever happened to respecting other beliefs and cultures?

So...Denmark should "respect the muslim beliefs and culture" by not ever visually representing Muhammed in any way, and Muslims should "respect Danish beliefs and culture" of freedom of speech and expression by rioting, storming embassies, boycotting Danish products and issuing death threats.

Sounds about right.

Want to make a point? Don't buy that fucking newspaper. End of story. Over 100 people died in the ensuing protests regarding these cartoons.

Let me repeat that for emphasis - Over 100 people died in the protests over cartoons.

[Faris]

[quote=Delta_9]

Their government not stepping in for not breaking any laws is not supporting it, genius.

but didn't their prime minister wear a T-shirt with the cartoons printed on it?
It is harming their government, so they are involved in this whether they like it or not.

Their PM isn't allowed free speech or to have an opinion? It would be one thing if it was a government funded organization but it isn't.

A prime minister is a very strong representative of what we call a government, and to be seen in public wearing such cartoons, clearly represents his full support to the cartoons. Nobody else representing the government said anything other than, "its freedom of speech, and its their right to publish that sort of thing". I think freedom of speech stops when a whole community, plus a country's income, reputation and moral is at stake....
man, a guy says nigger at a comedy show and people revolt. I heard in some countries speaking publicly of the holocaust is a crime, and you can be arrested, those countries are in the west, where freedom of speech exists, apparently.

You're still not getting it. Its his right to say what he wants. Yeah maybe not the best choice ever, but when he is up for re-election Denmark's citizens will decide. Not you and not anyone else. The government as a whole did nothing but defend its citizens. As for the holocaust bit: I've never heard of anyone being arrested for it, but if someone was, that would be on par with totally denying the holocaust ever happened .[/quote:r50l5y63]

As a prime minister, as a representative of the Danish government....I think he has a bit more serious obligations to the world to give an appropriate image of what he stands for, and not provoke any side...the best he coulda done is just stay neutral...but he didnt, he chose to wear such T-shirt. You make him sound like a school kid who just wants to rebel, hes the prime minister for God's sake. If it wasnt the PM you think we'd know what he wears or even how he looks like? -.-

[Maxxthepenguin]

...really firas, the prime minister wearing a t shirt vs killing 100 people. Which do you really think is worse?

[Xavier]

What western countries are you talking about? As far as i'm concerned, here and in the USA, black jokes, jew jokes, holocaust jokes, jesus jokes are tossed around constantly. You don't have a leg to stand on with this argument.

Some countries in Western Europe have anti-hate-speech laws, where things like Holocaust denial or KKK/Nazi style groups are outlawed.

I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure America has laws on the books where you aren't allowed to use hate speech in public to incite a riot. But yeah, at least among the people I know and overhear, we love to make politically incorrect jokes all the time.

-----------------------------------

I love the logic here too. Submit or die. Respect our culture or we'll kill you, also, fuck your culture.

[Remyo]

what's the big deal really over a fucking cartoon?

[Senoska]

This guys name is mohammad
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6...lipashald3.gif

This guy too
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8...raful2drg7.jpg

this guy is named john.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4917/johnbo5.jpg

but its okay, another Mohammad
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/772...akhtar4lp9.jpg

But lets not forget the teddy bear mohammad a woman was imprisoned and almost killed over
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/3...ddybearaz6.jpg

and the cartoon that people freak out about.
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1...n20daniui4.jpg

so what if it is a direct attack on islam(Clearly it isn't, fully support those guys in denmark, keep it up.). people are killing over a fucking CARTOON... don't you think this needs to be attacked?

[Khelek]

Valid point, but you cant force what you accept on us..

And you can't force what you don't accept on us.

we are different people, whatever happened to respecting other beliefs and cultures?

Yeah, whatever happened to that, hmm?


Story:
*Non-Muslim Person makes a picture of Muhammed, going against no rules of his society, since he's not muslim.
*Extremist Muslims want said Non-Muslim person dead, cause he didn't follow rules that don't apply to him.
Conclusion: Muslims force their religeon onto a person, and thereby go against human rights as well as disrespect said person's beliefs and culture, which you seemed to find important that you don't.


I'm out for tonight~ GL making it sound like the extremist muslims are right in doing anything of the above.

[archibaldcrane]

As a prime minister, as a representative of the Danish government....I think he has a bit more serious obligations to the world to give an appropriate image of what he stands for, and not provoke any side...the best he coulda done is just stay neutral...but he didnt, he chose to wear such T-shirt. You make him sound like a school kid who just wants to rebel, hes the prime minister for God's sake. If it wasnt the PM you think we'd know what he wears or even how he looks like? -.-

You have to understand Firas - in most western democracies, supporting freedom of expression and speech is just plain-old "more important" than sensitivity to a specific culture. Politicians, if expected to "pick a side" aren't going to side with the idea that "artists should restrict their expressions to viewpoints that won't offend Muslims" - they are going to side with the idea that "artists should express what they feel". That's how it works in places that ...are free.

[Sigi]

Seriously, please forgive my haziness on Islam's fundamentals, but isn't the idea to lead by example and convert people NOT by force, but by showing them the beauty of Islam?

Personally, I think it's douchebaggish of the paper to reprint the cartoon, however the people that boycott Danish products and riot in the streets are just as big a bunch of douchebags. However, the paper's objective is to sell more papers... and the controversy is only good for more lucre.

After all, to the non-muslim people they see a cartoon that expresses a view that Islam is influencing people negatively. The proper way to counter this is show how Islam is NOT a negative influence on people. After all, I have seen negative images of Judaism and Christianity drawn by Muslim papers... do I go out in the streets and riot? No, I just shrug off the people that did this as infantile douchebags and live my life as best as I can, as morally as I can.

[Remyo]

Senoska: make a move in chess already damn.

[Faris]

Valid point, but you cant force what you accept on us..we are different people, whatever happened to respecting other beliefs and cultures?

So...Denmark should "respect the muslim beliefs and culture" by not ever visually representing Muhammed in any way, and Muslims should "respect Danish beliefs and culture" of freedom of speech and expression by rioting, storming embassies, boycotting Danish products and issuing death threats.

Sounds about right.

Want to make a point? Don't buy that fucking newspaper. End of story. Over 100 people died in the ensuing protests regarding these cartoons.

Let me repeat that for emphasis - Over 100 people died in the protests over cartoons.

I agree with you...people shouldn't die over cartoons. People shouldn't destroy embassies over cartoons..its just plain wrong. Boycotting? I personally am boycotting danish products, but you see there is the catch. Denmark says: nono, dont boycott our products, but we'll still reprint those cartoons. They lost millions over weeks.

That aside, I'm questioning the reason, the WHY. Is it really worth it to tick off a whole community, which happen to have among their ranks, extremists who like to strap bombs and go KABOOM in buses, trains, restaurants and other public establishments...I mean really, weight it down, what are they trying to get to? and please dont forget, im not talking about the first time, the first time i can understand, freedom of speech, they didnt really know the outcome, and it just happened. BUT reprinting it, cmon now..


Edit::
BY GOD, I AM TOTALLY AGAINST KILLING OR DESTROYING EMBASSIES FOR THE SAKE OF CARTOONS, WHATEVER THE NATURE WAS. I SWEAR!

[Xavier]

I understand that images depicting him aren't allowed in your culture, but I just don't understand how you can justify killing people when their own culture finds nothing wrong with what they did, and didn't directly hurt anyone in the first place.

Reprinting the cartoon is just a way to further express their freedom of speech and that they won't be intimidated by death threats.

[Delta_9]

As a prime minister, as a representative of the Danish government....I think he has a bit more serious obligations to the world to give an appropriate image of what he stands for, and not provoke any side...the best he coulda done is just stay neutral...but he didnt, he chose to wear such T-shirt. You make him sound like a school kid who just wants to rebel, hes the prime minister for God's sake. If it wasnt the PM you think we'd know what he wears or even how he looks like? -.-

I said it probably wasn't the best choice. He is part of a global political body, his actions do represent the people of Denmark. Its also up to the citizens to either get rid of him or keep him. But threats of death over a cartoon under free speech? You can put international political pressure on him sure, but riots and violence?

[Kaelan]

As a prime minister, as a representative of the Danish government....I think he has a bit more serious obligations to the world to give an appropriate image of what he stands for, and not provoke any side...the best he coulda done is just stay neutral...but he didnt, he chose to wear such T-shirt. You make him sound like a school kid who just wants to rebel, hes the prime minister for God's sake. If it wasnt the PM you think we'd know what he wears or even how he looks like? -.-

As part of the Danish government it's his responsibility to ensure, support and enforce the principles of free speech and to state very clearly and very obviously that neither they nor anyone else should nor will submit to these types of claims on people's basic human rights because of one group's self-righteous religious bullying. Staying neutral, not reacting to it and not fighting it is exactly what would give these people a pass to keep doing what they're doing as it if was "ok" to do so. If they don't like the cartoon, they can find a way to protest against it that doesn't involve threatening other people's lives. They're not peacefully protesting the cartoon for being offensive, they're saying the people who published it have no right to say what they have said and threatening death on anyone who thinks otherwise. Staying neutral to these nutbags is not an option and only gives them excuse to continue doing what they're doing.

[Ryko]

Denmark says: nono, dont boycott our products, but we'll still reprint those cartoons. They lost millions over weeks.

Then it's their loss, they can't control what you buy in the slightest. Leave it up to the commercial side of denmark to pressure the journalists to stop.

[Remyo]

why is it against the muslim rules to have depictions of muhammad?

[archibaldcrane]

Denmark says: nono, dont boycott our products, but we'll still reprint those cartoons.

Why do you continue to do this? It's not a Danish national newspaper. I don't know how the media works in the UAE, but in Denmark there are media outlets that are completely and totally separate from the government. Denmark didn't reprint these cartoons, one specific, particular, non-government-owned newspaper did.

What is the purpose of your boycott of Danish products Firas? Would you like the government to prevent this paper from printing these cartoons? Serious question.