ITS ON NOW, Denmark!

[Faris]

the first publication of the cartoon, I think what you said, fully implies to it. But the second publication, I find it more provokative, and deserves a permanent boycott on all danish products. What ticks me off more, is I would like to see our government standing up for what we believe in...rather than thinking about it in a political, economic issue.

Two things: First, someone has to say it - how many products could tiny-ass Denmark possibly export to tiny-ass UAE? Seriously.

lol, you serious?
And Who Could Forget:
Denmark
http://www.VisitDenmark.com
Danish Exporters (If you have the time this is quite a list)

Food:
Arla Foods is Europe's second-largest dairy company and the leading Danish exporter to Saudi Arabia, where it sells an estimated 328 million dollars worth of products every year
Brands
Rosenborg
Lurpak
Dofino
Denmark's Finest
Mediterra

Danish Crown (meat)
Emborg
Beautiful Denmark (Butter Cookies)
Famous Dane (Butter Cookies)
Danish Bacon
Thor Fish
Danisco Food

Candy:
Toms (chocolate)
LAgermann
Galle & Jessen
Ingeborgs Chocolate

Beverages:
Tuborg Beer
Carlsberg Beer
Aalborg Aquavit (snaps)
Danish Distillers (Swedish Company some products produced in Denmark)

Medicine:
Novo

Audio Equipment/Home Theater
(Theatre for those across the Pond):
Audio Vector
B&O (Bang & Olufsen)
Cilo
Dali
DynAudio
Eltax
Jamo
Tangent
Vifa

Cigarettes:
Prince (Do not start smoking because of this fire!)

Clothing:
H2O
Hummel
Per Reumert
Munthe plus Simonsen
Bruuns Bazaar
IC Companies
In Wear
Matinique
Noa Noa
Sand

Shoes:
Ecco (USA Site)
Jaco
Dansko

Software:
EarMaster (for musicians)


Toys:
Brio (oops Swedish will remove this weekend)
Lego (toys)

Furniture:
Fritz Hansen

Danish Design:
B & G Porcelain
Georg Jensen
HTH- kitchen
Morsoe (Fireplaces)
Lindberg (Glasses)
PH-lamps
Pipes
Raadvad (knives etc.)
Royal Copenhagen
Royal Danish Porcelain
Skagen (Watches)
Stelton
Trip Trap
Vesta (Windmills)

Other:
Danish Yarn
Nexo Fireplaces
Nilfisk Vacuum Cleaners (USA site since I do not speak Danish)
Watco Danish Furniture Oil
Leitech (USA Site) Special "thread gage" used in quality control in the following areas of manufacturing; automotive, aerospace, medical, hydraulics, small and large engine manufacture.
Leitech (Danish Site)
Grund Foss ( Pump solution maker)
Dan Foss ( Valve manufacture )
GN ( Hearing aid, headsets and mobil headsets )
X-Yachts
http://buydanish.home.comcast.net/~b...h/products.htm the website made me lol

Second - you think that the UAE should permanently boycott Danish goods forever? Not just, for example, for the duration of this current prime minister?

I think we all agree, that Denmark as a government, as a country, supports the cartoons. I'm boycotting their products because they support the cartoon, the PM was a representative of that government. Until that changes, maybe I'll reconsider

Do you ever have a thought that could be considered, even briefly, as "not extreme"?

wut?

Also, Firas - bluegartr.com is allowing Remyo to post a picture of Mohammed firin' his laz0r. Are you going to boycott them too?

Me boycotting BG will harm them or Remy? obviously not, so boycotting them holds nothing.

[Maxxthepenguin]

If you think it's worth boycotting over a cartoon, so be it.

[Remyo]

don't boycott the site please don't. don't throw me in briar patch please!

[Jer]

why is it against the muslim rules to have depictions of muhammad?

Because someone might give him googly eyes and a lazer coming out of his mouth.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3359 ... ombkk5.jpg[/img]

?

WWIIIokgo.

I support the cartoons, and as many have said previously in the thread, Islam is just being treated the same as the other major religions. *There was a section here comparing the different religions and their views towards non-believers, but was removed* In short, what it amounted to was a group printed a picture of a religious icon in what would normally be considered a violent manner. Said religious group then acted in a very violent manner. Way to prove the stereotype wrong. For example, if the Christians bombed and attacked everybody who made fun of Jesus (not my gardener) there would be...nobody left. Free speech is here to stay in the majority of the world. If a culture is unable to handle it, they will find themselves left behind. If you really want to feel persecuted, maybe we can make an Internet video and see what happens.

As a side note, I am not biased towards one religion over the other. I used Christianity because it is the one most common where I live and as such is attacked on a daily basis. My personal belief is that people are killing each other over a fairy tale and will continue to do so forever. Which brings to mind an interesting idea for a reality TV show. 1 Cage, 5 Religions. Only 1 will leave. Who will be the winner this time? Stay tuned to find out!

[archibaldcrane]

Denmark as a government, as a country, supports the cartoons.

What, exactly, does "support the cartoons" mean to you? There is a huge difference between "I feel the same way about Mohammed as the one cartoonist who drew him with a bomb in his turban does" and "I support this newspaper's right to publish materials as it sees fit under the laws of our nation." The Danish government has a responsibility to its citizens, and should treat them as Danes first, religious peoples second (or tenth or whatever). Why should the Danish government allow religious extremists from other countries push them around? All Danish people deserve to be treated to the Danish tradition of satire - not just non-Muslim Danes.

Why do you want to deny Danish Muslims equal treatment by the government? Do you hate them for being in a western country? When in Denmark, do as the Danish do - isn't that the saying?

[Cjskater]

That aside, I'm questioning the reason, the WHY. Is it really worth it to tick off a whole community, which happen to have among their ranks, extremists who like to strap bombs and go KABOOM in buses, trains, restaurants and other public establishments...I mean really, weight it down, what are they trying to get to? and please dont forget, im not talking about the first time, the first time i can understand, freedom of speech, they didnt really know the outcome, and it just happened. BUT reprinting it, cmon now..

This is a particularly funny statement I'd just like to quote.

ironing...or a woosh? I'm not sure how to describe it

[Maxxthepenguin]

People do things just to be controversial, you don't need to make it some huge free speech case making them out to be some heroes for doing something that is, frankly, pretty stupid.

Not nearly as stupid as the reaction, but still pretty stupid.

Why doesn't everyone just shut up and live their lives without making stupid conflicts

[Blarg]

So Firas, do you carry a big ass list of Denmark products around with you when you go shopping?

[crazyrabbit]

They should reprint that cartoon again and again and again. Every month until the muslims stop acting like little children, stop thinking they are something special and just suck up that many people don't like them. Just like many people don't like buddhism, hinduism, christianity or cake.

When the goverment releases statements that they don't like muslims, or when they take free-speech from danish muslims, then i can understand boycotting them, but this is just ridiculous. Imo the PM just used the t-shirt to say "we won't bend our believes in free speech just to make some kids happy"

[Kaelan]

Why doesn't everyone just shut up and live their lives without making stupid conflicts

Because "shutting up and being neutral to it" is exactly what lets this kind of thing go on? There's a reason people don't just randomly go out in TV broadcasting and regularly make racist statements and last time someone major came even close, he had to apologize for it and some people are still pissed at him.

The only reason this kind of thing goes on is because it's a valid position for people to take. The whole point of what they're doing by reprinting the cartoons is showing they won't be intimidated by the creeps doing this kind of thing and they can threaten whatever they like (and if they do, hopefully the government will be on their ass immediately in the form of either police or whatever the danish secret service is called). They're only going to stop doing this when it becomes impossible to live in the Western world and still take these kinds of views (and worse, act on them).

The problem with being a "Moderate Liberal" about issues like this is that for every religious extremist saying "people who don't believe what I do should die", there's 5 moderates saying "oh no we should respect his beliefs" or "lets not do anything to offend him". Not putting your foot down on these kinds of issues as unacceptable in a modern world is exactly what lets the nutbag minority keep doing what they're so fond of doing. I hope more countries support Denmark this time.

[Deftscythe]

I just want to point out that I can't find anything corroborating Firas' claims that the Danish Prime Minister wore a t-shirt with the cartoon on it. Neither the wiki nor any articles turned up with a quick googling make mention of such an incident. I think Firas is confusing it with an Italian Reforms minister wearing such a shirt.

I felt this was a small but important clarification.

[Eaglestrike]

WWIII is going to be started over a fucking cartoon because Islam can't handle a joke from someone in another nation when every single other religion deals with far worse on a daily basis. Islam can't handle it on a 3 year basis.

I'm so converting to Islam now, you've shown me the light Firas.

[archibaldcrane]

I just want to point out that I can't find anything corroborating Firas' claims that the Danish Prime Minister wore a t-shirt with the cartoon on it.

I couldn't find anything either.

[Faris]

They should reprint that cartoon again and again and again. Every month until the muslims stop acting like little children, stop thinking they are something special and just suck up that many people don't like them. Just like many people don't like buddhism, hinduism, christianity or cake.

When the goverment releases statements that they don't like muslims, or when they take free-speech from danish muslims, then i can understand boycotting them, but this is just ridiculous. Imo the PM just used the t-shirt to say "we won't bend our believes in free speech just to make some kids happy"

What are you saying here, do you realize who will get majorly ass-raped if such thing happens? what the fuck haha. Is that how you think? for your freedom, you will damage the economy of your country and make enemies with a big part of the world? I really don't understand this, please explain how reprinting the cartoons will have a good outcome, on anyone for that matter.

Now if they didn't reprint the cartoons? what woulda happened? would the danish freedom be lost forever? no, the whole world is well aware of the west, and how its all about freedom, and liberty. Trust me there are many other ways in to projecting that to the rest of the world, doesnt need to insult anyone or anything. Isn't that the purpose of the cartoons? why does your freedom have to attack other people, with a cartoon or even a War...I mean, consider just practicing freedom alone, don't drag anyone with you, and trust me, trust me, noone will come bombing your towers, or burning your flags or embassies.

Edit::: oops, yes the italian prime minister wore the T-shirt, not Danish. Sorry :D

[archibaldcrane]

Edit::: oops, yes the italian prime minister wore the T-shirt, not Danish. Sorry :D

Is the boycott off now?

Isn't that the purpose of the cartoons?

The purpose of the cartoons are to show how various individual cartoonists view Muhammed. ~fin~

[Faris]

Edit::: oops, yes the italian prime minister wore the T-shirt, not Danish. Sorry :D

Is the boycott off now?

Hellz no, I can live w/o Danish butter and cheese.

[Darus Grey]

People have some weird concepts of "Freedom of Speech". Freedom of speech is not "Freedom to be a douchebag".

Freedom of speech is that a government may not pass any laws restricting the ability to speak freely.

Part of this freedom is is the *responsibility* to accept the consequences of the speech *you* choose to engage in.

Freedom of speech is not absolute, it does not give you a blanket waiver to say or do stupid shit and just yell "IT'S MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH BITCH" when you say some stupid shit that people don't like.

There are legal consequences to saying stupid shit.

Slander
Libel
Public Endangerment
Inciting a Riot
My favorite, "Gathering without a permit" assuming you're not talking to yourself.
Think for a minute how many of these apply to these "Innocent" cartoons.


There are social consequences to saying stupid shit. You don't go into the streets of Chinatown yelling derogatory shit about Asians and expect not to get beat the fuck up(assuming they're in a good mood).

The point is, part of this right is the ability to accept the consequences of your actions, you cannot be jailed *for what you said*, but you can be jailed for the *effects* of what you said.

Waiving around the "It's freedom of speech I can say whatever the fuck I want and no one can do anything about it" blanket is completely disrespectful of the right itself and a flagrant abuse(and it isn't even true!).

The people responsible should take responsibility for their poor taste and poorer judgement, there are plenty of ways to satire Islam without using Muhammad. Their usage of him was a deliberate act they knew would be controversial. Insulting Muhammad is one of the greatest sins in Islam and anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Islam should know that, I find it completely unbelievable that the newspapers who specifically comissioned for *cartoons of Muhammad* did not know this, quite the contrary I'm sure they knew exactly this and did it anyways. Not surprisingly, it incited riots.

Now, don't misunderstand me, I make no claim to justify the actions of the people who took this to violence and other extremes, that is tragic. But to simply write off all responsibility of the cartoonists and newspapers because it's "free speech! respect it!!!!!!" is so blatantly ignorant I can't help but be appalled.

Respect is something to be earned, and if you don't give it, you won't get it. It's as simple as that.

[archibaldcrane]

The people responsible should take responsibility for their poor taste and poorer judgement, there are plenty of ways to satire Islam without using Muhammad.

You are missing the entire fucking point of the original cartoon posting.

Artists in Denmark were self-censoring - refusing to depict Muhammed in any drawing whatsoever (the case in point was for a children's book), disrespectful or not, for fear of violence from extremist Muslims.

Saying "you can satirize Islam without using Muhammad"...The point was to reject self-censorship. It's against the MUSLIM belief to not depict Muhammad in drawings, people who are not Muslim shouldn't be expected to follow a religious belief for someone else's religion. I know it's hard to understand, but it's not just "but one of the cartoons had a bomb in it!" that's the problem - it's that -any- depiction of Muhammad will send extremist Muslims into a blood-frenzy, and arguing that Muhammad shouldn't ever be depicted because of this extreme irrationality goes right to the core of freedom of expression.

Depicting Muhammed in a "neutral" cartoon manner is only offensive if you are Muslim - to everyone else it's just another drawing of a religious figure, and everyone else should treat ideas surrounding "neutral" cartoon drawings of religious figures by and large the same, not fear for their lives for depicting Muhammed as they would depict Jesus or Buddha or Moses. There is no malice involved in drawing a religious figure for a children's book, and the ensuing outrage is simply Muslims being fucking butt-hurt whiny bitches that should not be catered to. Drawing Mohammed for a children's book is not a "fuck you" to Islam. It's just not.

[Darus Grey]

Saying "you can satirize Islam without using Muhammad"...The point was to reject self-censorship. It's against the MUSLIM belief to not depict Muhammad in drawings, people who are not Muslim shouldn't be expected to follow a religious belief for someone else's religion.

Then Muslims shouldn't be expected to follow western "freedoms", or "laws" should they?

I know thats taking it to an extreme but really think about that for a minute and see how hypocritical that kinda logic is.

and arguing that Muhammad shouldn't ever be depicted because of this extreme irrationality goes right to the core of freedom of expression.

No, it goes into making a smart choice. Freedom of speech only applies to the government and it's ability to make laws governing it. It does NOT give you a blanket waiver to say dangerous(FIRE!) things and not have to suffer any consequences for it.

People really don't understand what freedom of speech is.

[crazyrabbit]

Building a wall around freedom just doesn't work, it kills the idea of freedom.
Respect can only be earned, well then show some respect to the opinion of others and they might change.
Imo the best thing the muslims could do is laughing about the "stupid" people who don't understand the importance of Muhammed for so many muslims around the world and then draw some cartoons about other religions.
Ofcourse everyone has to deal with the consequences of what he says in public, but fearing for his life because of a cartoon in a newspaper or children book?

Telling someone that you don't like what he says is ok, forcing that person to stop saying that is not.
Expressing your anger about this incident in words and paintings is ok, threatening lives and revolting isn't.
Taking insults to your religion serious is ok, starting a war (even small scale) over it isn't.
You see the pattern?