MNK w/o H2H Merits

[Kirschy]

I'm close to finishing my MNK now, and I have 0 H2H merits. My question is, am I going to be stuck /w sushi? Consider my MNK events to be limited to: Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, Assaults, Merits. How important are merits in allowing me to be successful /w a meat build?

Weapon: Destroyers
Ammo: Tiphia Sting
Head: Turban, D Head
Neck: PCC
Ear: Merman's, Brutal
Body: Togi
Hands: O Kote, Usukane
Rings: Snipers+1 x2, Rajas
Back: Forager's
Belt: Black Belt, Life Belt
Legs: Byakko's, Usukane
Feet: Usukane

I don't have an O Hat, and honestly if I'm stuck /w sushi I won't bother getting one. I realize a lot of this I'll learn by myself /w trial and error and parsing different setups. I'm just hoping that some people out there w/o H2H merits can share their experiences of what worked and what didn't in regards to meat builds.

[Judai]

Should be ok with meat, use usukane hands and dual acc rings for tp. (along with the normal haste set-up) I would get Ohat tho for WS. Prolly come in around 80-85% Acc imo. Madrigal would help alot if you get a BRD in those situations and you will be hurting on High Evasion mobs though. Looking at around 360acc I think, not to forget Focus is a good 20acc (30w/crown) as well.

[Ryda]

Let me tell you my set up and how I do and you can draw your own conclusions.

Weapon: Destroyers
Ammo: Tiphia Sting (2)
Head: Usukane (7)
Neck: PCC (10)
Ear: Minuet, Brutal (3)
Body: Usukane (12) -4-
Hands: O Kote
Rings: Ulthalam's, Rajas (4) -2.5-
Back: Forager's
Belt: Black Belt, Life Belt
Legs: Byakko's -7.5-
Feet: Usukane (7)

That gives me 45 acc w/ another 14 acc from dex conversion on the gear for a total of 59 acc.

Your set up is 50 acc-ish with acc rings and o-kote, or 60 with all the acc gear.

In a merit PT at south mamool ja, using focus w/ head macro for infiltrators, double march and double min...Usually the parse will have me 8% of a 3 man parse ahead of a good black belt merited MNK with no usu using sushi, and beyond that if they try meat. Against e.body, speed belt, ridill war ill generally be 3% ahead (37%-War to 40%-Me to 23%-Sam).

I have full merits on MNK however and use red curry most of the time. If i use a +90 attack meat the results are similar since i don't come near capping out curry unless I'm /war in salvage. I run about 85% acc with this, keeping in mind that with fighting mamool/skoffin/puks, the puk flash will pretty much make 90% capped acc in the final parse.

If you had 16 less acc than me (0/8 H2H), suffering an 8% hit rate decrease I think you would still parse better with meat over sushi. Would need to be smart about when you used your focus. If you can get a madrigal you will be golden but i never have it sung for myself because the other melee always use sushi. I know the day I went from sushi to meat my parse *exploded*. When I see MNK with no usu try meat they all parse worse (and they usually use focus with no AF or at random unhelpful times). I think your situation is very similar to mine.

As for stuff outside meriting I dont know. I dont do anything but assault/salvage/merit. I never use sushi for anything though. In salvage you will need to use sushi on the boss im pretty sure. Even with the acc I have and merits I still feel like some bosses need sushi. I just comfort myself knowing that if I can do pretty much the same total damage by having 95% acc and less attack vs 80% acc and more att, the later method means the boss gets less TP.

[Seditedi]

MNK/WAR in salvage why?

Also, like Ryda said you'd most definitely need to use sushi for a salvage boss with no h2h merits I'm sure.
One of the MNKs in my old group complained of terrible accuracy on a boss while eating meat and stuck to sushi for the boss from then on.

[Ryda]

MNK/WAR in salvage why?

Well it speeds things up if you can pull it off.

It just depends on what I'm doing and to be honest it is the minority of runs overal that I /war. I don't fight bosses /war ( I have, but I ended up using defender all the time (LAC)).

I do alot of 5F & 6F NM in zhaylom as a 6 man PT with no SSR cards (first floor NM logout trick). Also a lot of these are semi pick ups were I get friends, people from my salvage shell and then random people..so doing all that with no SSR card doesnt leave time for a boss with a group that isnt well oiled. If you are only doing the first 5 floors and then just the frog on 6, there is not reason you need /nin if your group is strong. With 5/5 counter, relic feet macro for counterstance and 3/3 phallanx, macro AF for dodge, 3/3 invigorate for 240 free HP on your chakra, HP merits, alot of +eva gear that comes on the Usu I have...it all adds up to just not taking near enough damage for MP to be an issue. I just found myself counterstanced so much that i figured I might as well have berserk up too. Also, if i /war that means the other MNK can /war too for even more fun times.

In LS we are going all NM+boss in arra for instance, and for that ill /nin. Bhaflau NM run? /war.

[Seditedi]

Ah, gotcha, yea was going to say MNK/WAR for bosses is a nono heh, but you don't do them /war so now I see.

[Shuemue]

When I see MNK with no usu try meat they all parse worse (and they usually use focus with no AF or at random unhelpful times).

Uh, people were eating meat long before Usukane came out.

[Seditedi]

When I see MNK with no usu try meat they all parse worse (and they usually use focus with no AF or at random unhelpful times).

Uh, people were eating meat long before Usukane came out.

Shueme is right.
Focus with no AF macro or at shitty unhelpful times tells me that they are parsing worse because they are a poor player, doesn't have much to do with lack of Usukane alone.

[Ryda]

When I see MNK with no usu try meat they all parse worse (and they usually use focus with no AF or at random unhelpful times).

Uh, people were eating meat long before Usukane came out.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The phrase you quote is in the context of me talking about merit parties at Mamool Ja Staging point here. Are you also talking about that?

Uh, (MNKs) were eating meat at mamool ja without madrigal long before Usukane came out.And doing so they parsed better than with sushi.

[Ryda]

Shueme is right.
Focus with no AF macro or at shitty unhelpful times tells me that they are parsing worse because they are a poor player, doesn't have much to do with lack of Usukane alone.

Well, they certainly are not poor players. I merit with the MNKs who are pretty much regarded as the best NA on the server. You have to cut them some slack, if you are used to sushi its hard to know if a Skoffin or an Infiltrator has higher eva, because you are used to being capped on both. So did they have their method as thought out as they could? Nah. But these aren't your Slow to engage the mob/no auto-attack sort of player who parses bad because he is slow.

I'm interested to hear some MNK w/ meat stories myself. My perspective is just that *invariably* when any MNK I merit with eats meat they parse worse. The people who can do without usu it are not on my server, if they are anywhere.

[Shuemue]

Actually, yes. I parse better at north camp with meat and using focus on NIN + THF mobs, usually mar/mar/min/min for the ridill wars eating sushi.

[Ryda]

Actually, yes. I parse better at north camp with meat and using focus on NIN + THF mobs, usually mar/mar/min/min for the ridill wars eating sushi.

That is shocking. This is without usu? What acc gear do you use?

[Shuemue]

pretty usual stuff;

Destroyers
Tiphia Sting
Turban/O.hat
PCC
Brutal/Merman's/Diabolos
B.Kote
Togi
Snipers x2
Black Belt
Haidate
Dune Boots

[Judai]

For me;

Destroyers
W.Turban
Pcc
Ethereal/Brutal
ShuraTogi
Noritsune Kote
Sniper+1/Ulth
Black Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Usukane Sune-ate
Foragers Mantle

Was using meat well before I got Usukane Feet as well, since I got them just a couple weeks ago.

[Silpha]

I have 8/8 H2H merits (putting it first so i dont look like i'm lying)

Was totally eyeballing but i had a pt on mnk at mamool ja staging point not long ago, and as i didnt go there since ages, wanted to test meat. Double brd, minx2, marchx2.

faith torque, hollow earring, togi, nq sniper, rajas, usu pants, usu feet for acc gear.

It gone really smooth, had many 17tp return on asuran, and prolly only 1 or 2 under 12tp in the course of the hour spent here.

So without merits, but with pcc, haidate and ohat (god forbid i ever get one), you should give it a try. Just dont take the food effect sanction, and if you are not pleased with your acc, switch to sushi. Not even need to parse honestly; i did try meat before usu feet/torque/togi, and i was not pleased by simply reading the log. But last test made me feel like i was at colibri (editcamp(/edit), so i dont mind if parse would tell me otherwise =)

[Jyoshi]

hi! i usually just cave and use sushi (4 h2h merits) because i can definitly tell im missing a lot more than w/o it or with meat. onetime, against 2 ah wars, for first 30min of parse, i used coerl subs, mamool camp. whiff city, low tp returns, decided to use howling fist over asuran. i was parsing 6% lower then the wars. switched to sushi, by the end of the party i was 10% higher.

destroyers
tiphia
walmart/ohat/shura
pcc
mermansx2
shura
melee gloves
snipers x2
foragers
blackbelt/potent
af2
fumas

my friend on hades told me he has 4 h2h merits, but he parses fine with full usu.

[RKenshin]

IMO you're likely best off using sushi unless there is Madrigal present.

Using sushi you can still maintain a really strong and effective haste build. Otherwise, if you really want to be able to push meat, you're going to have to lose quite a bit of your haste to eat meat and get decent accuracy returns.

In your current gear state, you're likely to average about a 75% hit-rate in exp. Which is a little too low to be worth the trade off. Same applies for the amount of haste you would have to lose to get it up to more respectable accuracy percents. And it's easiest to just use sushi.

[Judai]

So, 8 H2H Merits takes you from 75% Acc to 90% Acc?

The only real difference from her possible build and mine is my H2H merits and I easily parse 90% Acc on Birds and close to it on Mamool/Skoffin. (BRD switches to Mad/Min for Lurkers, Ninjas and Skoffins) Are we forgeting 3m of +30 Acc from Focus? That's a pretty strong buff there to hit when you pull those HE mobs. I would hope ppl like Kirschy are partying with smart ppl who dispel evasion bonuses and can switch songs according to what's being fought.

Obviously, you will be getting mixed reviews from people. Only way to really tell is to try it yourself. Go out and top yourself off with Acc and try Meat. If it isn't working, drop some Acc for Atk(UsuGote to Okote) and eat some sushi. On the HE shit, you might miss a bit more but like I said, I would hope your BRDs are smart enough to realize they have good DDs who are eating meat and might need some extra Acc on those mobs.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

4 H2H Merits:
TP/ WS
Destroyers
Tiphia Sting
Usukane Somen/ Optical Hat
Faith Torque
Merman's Earring
Brutal Earring/ Merman's Earring
Kirin's Osode
Bandomusha Kote
Sniper's Ring +1
Sniper's Ring +1
Forager's Mantle
Black Belt/ Life Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Usukane Sune-Ate

Almost always use meat.

[Kimkytaru]

It's easy, if you eat meat, you'll need madrigal in support for thf and other high eva mamool, even for Scoffin, meat is fine on colibri tho, if you can't have madrigal or maybe cor acc bonus forget about eating meat against mamool/scoffin.