Fire resist or magic damage %

[Sylphet]

I don't even really associate sentimental value with any otherwise worthless items and keep them on me just for that reason, while a lot of people do.

If I ever log on to your character to find you tossed the wedding ring you will be in deep shit boy!

By the way, you guys need to be hosed down. Jesus christ people.. can you really be having such a heated discussion about INVENTORY SPACE? People have different ideas about what they can and cannot "give up" in terms of gear and they should not be faulted for it. Fact of the matter is that upon getting Gjallarhorn, most BRDs free up a LOT of inventory. I did at first but then as I began to explore BRD more and having this newly found inventory space, I ended up adding a lot more gear back for things like capped stoneskin, haste, and defense gear. However, I do think that mage jobs are generally speaking more demanding on inventory than melee due to the fact that they actually tend to have useful AF, AF2 and JSE with very little overlap between jobs.

Frankly in regards to Tiamat, it's the sad truth on our server that unless you camp with a holding party, you will never get to kill her anyway, and before that was true we frequently lost pull due to people needing to change jobs from what they were doing before.

Ruke yells at my all the time for my pretty mog house with lots of worthless stuff I like to see when I go in there and I just ignore it!

[RKenshin]

It's just a debate. <.<

And yeah the wedding ring is just about the only thing I can't toss. But, you're exactly the type of person I'm making a point about! You keep so much crap on you and rarely ever toss anything! Resulting in much less inventory than you really have to work with!

I'm already consolidating to the best as I can, to play my jobs at above average level. Granted, I doubt there's even more than 10% of mages reading here that carry as comprehensive gear as me.

This is my point though.

For your average person in this game (who you admit is not as comprehensive as you), it is not a problem of having too much gear. About 315 potential spaces is a lot to work with, and if you really hold nothing other than the specific equipment you need for what you use the job for, along with maybe 10 slots of food/meds/consumables/etc, you can manage it. This of course means that if you do and prefer to do all your farming on NIN, then there's no reason to invest in solo gear for something like DRG, or SAM, or RNG, etc, just to have it.

And I wasn't factoring in AF2. Of all my jobs I only have a single set of AF NPC'd (including AF1 and AF2).

The reason I'm so adamant about this is because I tend to be the 'inventory fixer' between a few of my friends, whom get so bad that between everything they'll only have 1-4 total spaces (LIKE SYLPHET). All because they're holding so much useless stuff that they either never use, can't use, or have no use for. Despite them being convinced they can't have anymore inventory space, I'll still find a way to make 40+ spaces.

So I'm really persistent in believing you can always make room for gear for 3-7 jobs without muling, regardless of the combination.

[zhan]

?

[Archimond]

Resist is better when you can get it to consistently work. Your list added up to 157 which should be enough, especially with barfira+carol. I personally have best of both worlds though, yay aegis. The gear i wear is just enough to resist occasionally, that way i can cure myself but also take no dmg intake now and again.

[Kaeko]

Going to try to answer the topic!

Fire resist gear is better once you actually get going. As others have said, you can take pretty much 0 damage on everything with Phalanx 2, Barfire, and Fire Carol.

BUT...

As someone else mentioned, holding is a big deal. This means unless you are one of those LSs that brings a camping party to Tiamat, you need to do a pre-mature hold. In this situation, I doubt you will have the necessary buffs immediately ready to make fire resist gear useful, in which case, you should probably opt for straight magic damage down.

We typically go for Fire resist gear and not magic down. This makes for nice and smooth fights, but it also gets us beat on some pulls because we know we can't actually begin to tank it pre-maturely (NIN/DRK tank unable to mitigate air damage is a bad thing). We aren't that really big on Tiamat now so it's not a big deal, but if you guys want to be hardcore about it, holding is definitely equally as important as actually killing it.

[RKenshin]

Not to get into inventory management again, but I don't see why a NIN tank wouldn't normally have room for both magic damage reduction and fire resist? Could potentially just use magic reduction to start, and then when more support arrives begin using fire resist gear.

I've always brought both just in case something like that happened, and while that'd practically put me at 60/60 before the last two gobbie bags it shouldn't be a problem now.

[Kaeko]

Not to get into inventory management again, but I don't see why a NIN tank wouldn't normally have room for both magic damage reduction and fire resist? Could potentially just use magic reduction to start, and then when more support arrives begin using fire resist gear.

I've always brought both just in case something like that happened, and while that'd practically put me at 60/60 before the last two gobbie bags it shouldn't be a problem now.

I'd probably recommend getting both like you said if the OP's LS is hardcore about Tiamats.

I think for us, we're kind of like your LS is right now - not really looking to do Tiamats. We'll kind of do it if we have a lot of bored people on and it's just sitting there... which almost never happens. If it were like a year ago maybe our tanks would be hardcore enough to do this, but probably not worth taking at this point

For utility purposes, there are lots of things you can't apply a fire resist set to, but you can apply a magic damage down set to just about an HNM. With the way tanking has progressed now, I think a good Magic Damage set is pretty standard.

[shieldsofwindurst]

Sorry for further derail, I think the OP's question has been sufficiently answered though so here we go. Also, this is the newbie section, so please no flaming.

BLM is probably the most inventory heavy of the mage jobs (and in the game), but even so you're still using a lot of gear you'd otherwise use with other mage jobs.

Legitimately curious if this is true. Career blm, don't really have any other jobs leveled, but man am I stressing inventory even with the new gobbiebags. My blm gearsets include the following:
-Elemental magic Skill Gear (everything short of the stupid avatar ring & druids since +8/10 int seems to help more than +5 skill)
-Int/MAB Gear (everything short of relic belt/Morrigans/Einherjar cursed items)
-Capped Stoneskin Gear (no arguments about /sch, thanks)
-Dark magic Skill Gear (everything you can get including abyssal, shut up, career blm remember)
-Enfeebling magic Skill Gear (everything short of the damn sea cape)
-Yellow hp swap gear for Sorc Ring (brings me 2 hp below the necessary threshold, so almost as efficient as possible)
-HMP gear

The only thing I gimp is on HMP (which has very diminishing returns, I've done the math) and I can only effectively increase via the assault neck piece (can't get the drop) and the +1 back piece (not worth the inventory). The only non-actively used gear I carry is echo drops & sprinter's shoes. I only carry relic pants/obis for manaburns. I do carry MC Bracelets & dark obi full time thanks to 2 years of dynamis sleeping. All this results in 63/70 full time.

So is this really the worst it gets in the game? Melee-onry jobs I can understand, 2 gearsets for tp/ws + a few extra for job-specific abilities and/or different subs, but then you have jobs like rdm that do everything I do, + "can" melee solo/lowman casual stuff. Certainly better than I can on blm, at least, and we all know that there's plenty of 75 rdm/nins out there swinging at things. Then there's all of the situational gear that tanks carry, depending on sub & type of mob. Sure there's plenty of carryover, but I wouldn't even want to consider being a pld and building fire, earth, and wind resist builds for tiamat/bahamut, ouryu, and lolav. Not to mention any of the other element builds you might want for less-farmed HNMs.

[aurik]

Don't forget a haste setup as blm for long-recast spells such as stun, drain, and aspir.

[shirak]

Rdm has the most potential gear to carry by far.

[RKenshin]

I'd probably recommend getting both like you said if the OP's LS is hardcore about Tiamats.

I think for us, we're kind of like your LS is right now - not really looking to do Tiamats. We'll kind of do it if we have a lot of bored people on and it's just sitting there... which almost never happens. If it were like a year ago maybe our tanks would be hardcore enough to do this, but probably not worth taking at this point

For utility purposes, there are lots of things you can't apply a fire resist set to, but you can apply a magic damage down set to just about an HNM. With the way tanking has progressed now, I think a good Magic Damage set is pretty standard.

Yeah I agree, I even find myself using most of my NIN's magic damage reduction gear on MNK, SAM and a few others now. It doubles for many uses so magic damage gear is definitely the most important, but it isn't too much trouble to get a fire resist as well... Which also makes an incredible difference when it can be used.

And yeah, my LS is in the same situation. Almost never get to kill Tiamat now.

So is this really the worst it gets in the game?

Well, I think this actually depends a lot more on the player than the job. I could see any job potentially having way more gear they use than an average RDM or BLM will have. It's all about how the player uses the job, and what they use it for.

As an example most SAMs probably have 2-3 sets of gear, and can do fine with just that. But, personally I have about 8 sets. Including normal TP gear, WS gear, +acc gear (as much as 125 acc for HNMs/etc), enmity gear, physical damage reduction, magical damage reduction, HP (resting to 1k HP while weak is kind of handy!), and some accessories for enhancing JAs.

The same could be said about many people for many jobs.

But, as far as which tends to take up the most it's hard to say. I'm sure some people could argue endlessly for their job because they have TP/WS/solo gear for their SMN (or whatever job) in addition to all the normal stuff.

[Kaeko]

Fact: you get 70 inventory slots

Fact: there is always some extra gear that gives some minimal increase to some random situation

Fact: Someone out there loves their job X so much they will bring said gear for said minimal increase.

With this in mind, ALL JOBS probably can take the maximum gear since you get 70 slots. I guess if you are talking the amount of gear you need to be considered effective, then I'd guess non-relic BRD, BLM, or RDM. I think anyone that was going all out with their favorite job could tell you a way to fill 70 inventory slots though.

[Seditedi]

Shields care to discuss your calculations about diminishing returns on HMP+ gear?

[shieldsofwindurst]

Shields care to discuss your calculations about diminishing returns on HMP+ gear?

...it's late, but what the hell. This is how I looked at it. First, just a clarification~reviewing my data, I have to admit that mathematically, stacking on more HMP does not result in significant diminishing returns. However, looked at from the standpoint of the amount of effort required to build the ideal HMP set vs. the amount of utility you get out of that set, when compared to the effort required for a very simple HMP set vs. the corresponding utility from that set, I absolutely believe that it's a case of diminishing returns. In any case, here's my research:

Assumptions
-If you wear refresh gear that's roughly equivalent to 3.2 HMP. I eyeballed this based on the fact that every time I rest in yigit, I get 3-4 refresh ticks in before the big HMP tick, and usually 3. Thus for each HMP tick you're usually an extra 3 MP, sometimes 4. Thus roughly 3.2. You can fill in your own approximate value.
-The goal (in my mind) of finding the best HMP set is to get to the minimum number of ticks that it would take to go from 0 mp to what you consider to be some goal level of mp. For me, I consider that to be maximum nuking mp + the cost of stoneskin + (optionally) the cost of blink + (also optionally) the cost of phalanx.

Restrictions that make this not necessarily 100% applicable to you
-I did my calculations based on my character, which is a hume blm. I've always thought tarus naturally get better hmp based on my own informal observations in manaburns, and obviously different jobs will have different amounts of clear mind. Also different characters will have different amounts of max mp resulting in different mp goals (merits, races, gear choices, etc).

Results
Process
So what I did then was make tables in a spreadsheet that shows over 20 ticks, assuming 0 start mp, how much mp I'd get per tick. I did it for both the case that I have a resting set which gets refresh naturally and for the case where I do not. I built these tables for the following hmp combinations to observe the effect:
HMP + 0, 16-34 (i.e. HMP + 16, HMP + 17, ... HMP + 34)
(0 for a baseline, 16 for an easy amount to start with, 34 because it's the maximum possible HMP you can get with HQ everything)
I then simply observe where, for each tick, I meet the mp goals that I set (max nuking, max nuking with SS, etc).

Data
HMP + 0:
17 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl (no refresh)
18 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (no refresh)
16 ticks to reach nuke (refresh)
17 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (refresh)

HMP + 16:
14 ticks to reach nuke + SS (no refresh)
15 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (no refresh)
13 ticks to reach nuke (refresh)
14 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (refresh)

Note 1: Since I'm primarily concerned with sets that have auto refresh, it's important to note increasing HMP from 16 to 22 results in no different ticks being logged as important tiers assuming refresh, just different combination of SS/Bl/Ph goals being met. The next "tier" is the following:

HMP + 23:
13 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl (no refresh)
14 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (no refresh)
12 ticks to reach nuke (refresh)
13 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (refresh)

Note 2: The previous note again applies. The next tier of mild interest is HMP + 26 (mild because it only involves an improvement to non-refresh sets)

HMP + 26:
12 ticks to reach nuke (no refresh)
13 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (no refresh)
12 ticks to reach nuke + SS (refresh)
13 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (refresh)

Note 3: While there are no further tiers of interest until you reach HMP+31, I'm going to show HMP + 28 as well for reasons which will be explained later on:

HMP + 28:
12 ticks to reach nuke + SS (no refresh)
13 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (no refresh)
12 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl (refresh)
13 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (refresh)

HMP + 31:
12 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl (no refresh)
13 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (no refresh)
11 ticks to reach nuke (refresh)
12 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (refresh)

Note 4: Only the max HMP possible results in any further (and in this case minor) tier improvement:

HMP + 34:
11 ticks to reach nuke (no refresh)
12 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (no refresh)
11 ticks to reach nuke + SS (refresh)
12 ticks to reach nuke + SS + Bl + Phalanx (refresh)

Now let's look at the best possible gearsets and compare.

Best Possible HMP Gearsets
*** Please note this was all done pre the latest patch, so I haven't included any new gear in these calculations. Granted I didn't see any new useful HMP gear in the data mining thread, except for maybe the poison cape, but I'm not counting that 'cause I won't burn a poison potion everytime I need to rest.

Set #1: No Auto Refresh
10 - Plutos (easy)
1 - Invigorating Cape (easy)
6 - Mahatma Houppelande (hard to get unless you are rich, which not all of us are)
2 - Goliard Chapeau (can be hard to get)
2 - Yigit Pants (easy)
1 - Genie Gages (relatively easy)
3 - Goliard Clogs (relatively easy)
1 - Antivenom/boroka/magnetic earring (easy)
2 - Relaxing earring (can be a pain)
3 - Phi necklace (can be hard to get)
3 - qiqirn sash +1 (easy)

This gearset results in HMP + 34, no autorefresh, and requires 1 super expensive item, and 3 items which can require varying levels of difficulty to get.

Set #2: Auto Refresh, using full Yigit
10 - Plutos (easy)
1 - Invigorating Cape (easy)
5 - Yigit Body (easy)
1 - Yigit Hat (easy)
2 - Yigit Pants (easy)
0 - Yigit Hands (easy)
0 - Yigit Feet (easy)
1 - Antivenom/boroka/magnetic earring (easy)
2 - Relaxing earring (can be a pain)
3 - Phi necklace (can be hard to get)
3 - qiqirn sash +1 (easy)

This gearset results in HMP + 28 + Autorefresh, making for an effective HMP +31.2; it also only has 2 items which can require difficulty to get (and they're the same as set #1)

Set #3: Auto Refresh, not using full Yigit
10 - Plutos (easy)
1 - Invigorating Cape (easy)
0 - Sorcerer's/Dalmatica/Morrigan's (pain in the ass)
2 - Goliard Chapeau (can be hard to get)
2 - Yigit Pants (easy)
1 - Genie Gages (relatively easy)
3 - Goliard Clogs (relatively easy)
1 - Antivenom/boroka/magnetic earring (easy)
2 - Relaxing earring (can be a pain)
3 - Phi necklace (can be hard to get)
3 - qiqirn sash +1 (easy)

This gearset also results in HMP + 28 + Autorefresh, making for an effective HMP +31.2; however, it requires one item that can be a massive pain to get (granted many people on this board already have these items, but regardless the difficulty is still relevant); it also has 3 items which can require difficulty to get (and they're the same as set #1)

Observations
1: Gear set #1 (no refresh) would result in 11/12 tick tiers.
2: Gear sets #2 & #3 (refresh) would result in 12/13 tick tiers.
3: Increasing from HMP + 0 to HMP + 16 results in a gain of ~3 ticks (refresh or no refresh), and this is easy to do.
4: Increasing from HMP + 16 to HMP + 34 results in a gain of ~3 ticks (only no refresh), but this can be very hard to do.
5: A simple gearset, let's say full yigit + dark staff only, which results in HMP + 18 + autorefresh, results in 13/14 tick tiers.
6: Add to that simple gearset 5 more HMP from whatever, and you get HMP + 23, or 12/13 tick tiers.
7: The easiest set to build is #2, full yigit.

Conclusions
So what did we learn? First off, it's incredibly simple to increase your tiers through very little gear, i.e. yigit + dark staff which = 13/14 tick tiers. To further improve your performance, you need to add just a few easy items such as the assault neck & back, as well as ear. Even NQ qiqirn belt will help significantly here. Get to 12/13 tick tiers and you're pretty much where you want to be.

However, to FURTHER improve your performance by 1 single tick, you have to farm up a shit ton of rare/ex items and buy one incredibly expensive one. And if you don't manage to get every single one of them, then (depending on your mp goals) you won't see that improvement.

Currently I am using gear set 2 minus the cape and the necklace, which gives me HMP + 24. This puts me just over that 12/13 tick tier, and the only gear I spent any time at all obtaining was the yigit (which is a given unless you can compensate with all the harder items), the relaxing earring, and the qiqirn sash (only because I was stubborn & had a friend craft it). However, to further improve my personal performance, I would have to get the following items, which I do Not have:
-Mahatma's Houppe
-Goliard Chapeau
-Goliard Clogs
-Phi Necklace
-Genie Gages
-Invig Cape

Other than the cape & maybe the gages if I can get them cheap on the ah, that's a Significant investment of time and money into gear that I would only use for resting (meh on the clogs, I like my yigit). Also, sitting at 63/70 and stressing over inventory space every time I get a random drop in dynamis does not lend itself well to picking up 6 pieces of gear that for the most part aren't useful for other applications. Also, resting in all the HMP gear that I *do* have puts me not that much above my mp goal, so swapping in something like the necklace or the feet or the cape also has the side effect of making me unable to reach my mp goals.

Therefore, my conclusion is this: figure out what your mp goals are, figure out what a *good* set (but not perfect set) will get you in terms of tick tiers, and go with that. If you have all of that gear and can actually rock a HMP+34 set, then good for you-but I'd be rather shocked if you're not neglecting a different gearset such as drk, elem, mab, stoneskin, or yellow hp swap. Yes there is a good amount of overlap between the gearsets we use, but the more you focus on one thing the more specialized gear you end up with; that's why almost nobody has igqira feet.

In general, HMP is rather hard to optimize, and even if you put a great deal of effort into it, all you're really doing is saving yourself 15-30 seconds at best. Does this 15-30 seconds matter? Sometimes it does, which is why it can be worth it. Sometimes it doesn't matter at all.

Caveats
There are a number of caveats to this research.
1. If you think that every single time you rest you're going to care about a specific tier, you're out of your mind. If you rest up from 0 mp more than once a month I'd be shocked. Most of the time it's whatever mp you're at when the mob dies, in whatever time you have available. Therefore specific tiers are not really that relevant; the best you can do is go for a worst-case, which is the 0 mp case.
2. The target mp goals I had for my case were 835/864/884/905 (835 + cost of SS + cost of blink + cost of phalanx). Your mp will vary, and often it will vary widely, depending on race, merits, & gearsets. As you get new gear/merits you may wish to recalculate the tiers to see if what you're doing is still useful. Also, elemental skill gear tends to carry less mp+ than mab gear, thus if you're at an HNM resting up then nuking in full skill gear (a likely scenario for which this research is relevant), your tiers will be different. Be aware of what those tiers are.

I'm sure there's further room for debate but I'm tired, will argue tomorrow.

[Tomiko]

If I ever log on to your character to find you tossed the wedding ring you will be in deep shit boy!

This is the best part of this thread.

[Raiine]

Neptunes Staff (20)

For PLD get a hrotti and a numinous shield.

I run with roughly 135 base fire to get over 300 with carol and barspell and have never had any issues with that. I use shadow ring in one slot and mdb elsewhere. 170 is overkill as long as your support is there.

[yrpaine]

RK/wop: lol guys geez, don't make the maat's cap users start listing things. I try to use gear that's good for more than 1 job or 1 task. I'd prefer a mdb and -dmg set up just because it'd work for tiamat/ouryu/j-dragon/j-lo/ect.. and you're generally not going to die as long as you have something to smooth out the fight, it's more of an ease/mp issue.

specific elemental sets can really add up on inventory space, but would technically be "better" for -dmg if you like getting hit for 0 all the time. If you're going pld, you generally get some mp refresh over time and it can help with hate to cure yourself a bit and a -dmg set for all situations would save inventory space, nin would probably see more of a benefit from the elemental sets since they aren't curing for hate.


so to answer your question:
Yes. You should have a mdb/-dmg setup or a elemental resist setup for each element. having one of these will help you

[RKenshin]

We weren't talking about Maat's cap users. <.< We were talking about the average person/a person similar to how many jobs we have and how we equip them.

The average person doesn't have a Maat's cap! Although they are almost everywhere now.

[yrpaine]

I know you werent lol, just seemed to keep on listing jobs and gear. Some were complaining about space and i was like... lol. Right now i'm stuck at keeping situational gear on my mule till i clear up the 15 inventory space my ks/bs are taking up. I pretty much keep my pld geared on my main for tanking over my nin, just because it shares more gear with other jobs, and nin has less rare/ex. -dmg/mdb set lets me be functional when needed fast, while a specific elemental set would lower my dmg taken, I often can't afford the time to mule, and can't afford the space to keep it on me.

[RKenshin]

Well, most Maat's cap users tend to specialize in like 5-8 jobs. I don't really know of any that attempts to be completely decked/merited with equipment easily available for all 15. D:

That'd be pretty nuts.

Should so be able to get a Maat's Cap+1 if you cap all jobs to 75, all exp, and all merits.