WAR/SAM top of the merit job heap?

[Therin]

wru Therin? I don't think any DRK/SAM equally equipped as my WAR could out parse me.

I've parsed with over a dozen Ridill/E.Body WARs and only one has beaten me (Rykoshet on Fairy), so if we were on the same server I'd love to go at it.

I'd be more worried about losing a parse to a DRG/SAM or SAM/WAR then a WAR/NIN these days.

[Aust]

Collibri camp: SAM/WAR+Gondo-Shizunori > ALL DD Relic/no Relic

Shiva ppl feel free to prove me wrong, send me tell ingame :D

This man is correct.

[Seditedi]

LS mate used this, tore Colibri up pretty good
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Engetsuto_%2B1

[Aust]

Yeah, Engetsuto works almost as well, same base damage and delay as Gondo, just ends up lacking in the DoT department without the added 6% crit rate. Definitely easier to obtain, though.

[Seditedi]

Yeah the HQ is the highest base damage polearm available for SAM.
Probably parses about the same as Gondo.

[Genosync]

Sad truth of some of the idiots on the internet.

I don't know how many people saw my NIN update 2-3 years ago and assumed from it that any NIN, crappy or not, could tank anything and be omfg awesome at it, only for the NIN to suck and the LS think that it's other people and not the NIN. Then I get PMs/e-mails/etc about it and asking why they can't kill Fafnir or something, with there evasion build NIN. D: Not that NIN can't work as a tank for anything, but it sure doesn't if the tank sucks. Just like trying to get any shitty tank to work anywhere. Some people even would assume that only NIN was able to tank.

This was like 2-3 years ago, but yeah... I'm sure there are still people that do the same thing now, just a different story for a different time.

There was, at that point, way too many people wanting to tank things only on NIN, even people with PLD leveled.

And now I come to find out it's your fault? Thanks a lot, Ruke. God.

[Starr]

Yeah the HQ is the highest base damage polearm available for SAM.
Probably parses about the same as Gondo.

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...%27s_Couse.gif
sup?

[Rhealana]

Sup?

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...9/gungnir2.jpg

I can single handedly keep a chain going at colibri camps with a BRD and a healer. The other two members of the party could be Lv.60 leeches for all it mattered... which has been happening with my linkshell lately as everyone's been levelling lower levelled jobs and calling upon me to leech them up to 75.

[Mojo]

Figured I'd post here since I was the DRK/SAM in that parse. That was actually my very first merit PT on DRK, my Scythe skill wasn't even capped when we started. Those saying that casting dark magic in EXP is a waste are right on the money. I was casting for the skill ups(still not capped!)

My set up at the time was the following.

Perdu Sickle/Pole Strap

TP

Walahra Turban
Haubergeon +1
Amemet Mantle +1
Peacock Charm
Homam Manopolas
Speed Belt
Assault Earring
Divisor Ring
Homam Cosciales
Fire Bomblet
Brutal Earring
Rajas Ring
Homam Gambieras

WS

Black Sallet
Haubergeon +1
Amemet Mantle +1
Peacock Charm
Thick Mufflers
Potent Belt
Assault Earring
Divisor Ring
Black Cuisses
Fire Bomblet
Brutal Earring
Rajas Ring
Thick Sollerets

0 Scythe merits and only 3/3 Desperate Blows for DRK merits at the time, using Mithkabobs. I still don't have Scythe merits(and won't unless they expand merit caps again), although my gear has come along somewhat(Justice Torque, Ace's Helm, Hecatomb Leggings, and next week AF1+1 hands cause I slept in today). Still a lot to improve on. I don't know if I'll ever get Ebody because I don't do HNM.

Either way, DRK can definitely bring a lot to merit. /SAM is very nice, if played correctly the difference between Third Eye and Utsusemi is small. You also have the option of going Hasso onry and spamming if the party can support it. If my DRK had a few more pieces of gear and scythe merits, I could easily put up much higher numbers than I did.

[Seditedi]

Yeah the HQ is the highest base damage polearm available for SAM.
Probably parses about the same as Gondo.

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...%27s_Couse.gif
sup?

O nice, forgot about that.
Shame the latent sucks.

[Genosync]

That was actually my very first merit PT on DRK

What part of this

my Scythe skill wasn't even capped when we started.

And this

I was casting for the skill ups(still not capped!)

and that, gives you any right to say

Those saying that casting dark magic in EXP is a waste are right on the money.

that.

Oh, wait, that's right, none of it.

0 Scythe merits and only 3/3 Desperate Blows for DRK merits at the time, using Mithkabobs. I still don't have Scythe merits(and won't unless they expand merit caps again), although my gear has come along somewhat(Justice Torque, Ace's Helm, Hecatomb Leggings, and next week AF1+1 hands cause I slept in today). Still a lot to improve on. I don't know if I'll ever get Ebody because I don't do HNM.

Either way, DRK can definitely bring a lot to merit. /SAM is very nice, if played correctly the difference between Third Eye and Utsusemi is small. You also have the option of going Hasso onry and spamming if the party can support it. If my DRK had a few more pieces of gear and scythe merits, I could easily put up much higher numbers than I did.

There's a lot of ways to play DRK, and it all depends upon where you are and what kind of support you have as to which of three or four different methods (and subjob choices!) work the best for your situation. So don't say crap based off one experience with it, and say 'balh blah this for all situations blah'. Especially not in the newbie forum, please, be careful with what you say in here. -.- Make sure you specifically identify things so it doesn't make the newer players take it as fact and law and apply it for all situations 'till the end of time.

[Raen Ryong]

DRK/SAM is a very powerful merit job, although your strength relies greatly on the power of the other DDs involved; the weaker they are comparatively, the less safe in terms of MP efficiency you become. I cast Dread Spikes (seigan/hasso down) in merits and Absorb-TP (seigan/hasso down) very occasionally (normally if I land a bad guillo and are at 3% TP or whatever and the mob has lots of TP), but I wouldn't bother with either drain except in emergency.

My gear isn't perfect but I've only been outparsed on a handful of occasions; one of which was a war/sam =P his gear was far better than mine though so it's hard to tell, he won by about 5% or so. War/sam is a very capable merits job though, I just don't like people making blanket statements, especially since drk has a hard enough time getting parties =/

For reference;

TP
Weapon: Perdu Sickle (I don't see why it gets so much hate)
Sub: Pole Strap
Ammo: Fire Bomblet
Head: Walahra Turban
Neck: Justice Torque
L.Ear: Abyssal Earring
R.Ear: Brutal Earring
Body: Hauberk
Hands: Dusk Gloves
L.Ring: Ulthalam's Ring
R.Ring: Rajas Ring
Back: Forager's Mantle
Waist: Swift Belt
Legs: Black Cuisses (Omega is stingy)
Feet: Homam Gambieras

WS
Head: Adaman Celata (don't like Wyvern Helm due to no acc and I don't need the acc from Optical Hat; a compromise of sorts)
Neck: Justice Torque
L.Ear: Abyssal Earring
R.Ear: Brutal Earring
Body: Hauberk
Hands: Chaos Gauntlets +1
L.Ring: Ulthalam's Ring
R.Ring: Rajas Ring
Back: Forager's Mantle
Waist: Potent Belt
Legs: Black Cuisses
Feet: Hecatomb Leggings (need Temenos DRK AF+1 item)

Scythe8/8
Crit4/4
DB3/3
Last Resort Recast4/5
Last Resort Effect1/5

I've parsed above things like Ridill WARs and BB MNKs (though also below sometimes!), so I can say for sure that DRK/SAM is a potent merit job and definitely worth considering inviting. Whether it is "above" war/sam, I do not know. There are many factors, including blind luck, which influence things. I would like to think the DD are equal but I am obviously biased towards DRK/SAM. Sorry if this is considered a mini-derail, just felt the need to defend DRK/SAM in the context of this discussion.

[Mojo]

That was actually my very first merit PT on DRK

What part of this

my Scythe skill wasn't even capped when we started.

And this

I was casting for the skill ups(still not capped!)

and that, gives you any right to say

[quote:f9z7xafq]Those saying that casting dark magic in EXP is a waste are right on the money.

that.

Oh, wait, that's right, none of it.[/quote:f9z7xafq]

I've played on enough other jobs to know what is and isn't worth using in merit. Aside from the occasional Stun for non DD purposes, dark magic is never worth using in any good merit party, regardless of your subjob, camp, or any other variables. It was great on the way to 75 (TA WS > Absorb TP > SA WS was pretty awesome), but if that's what you're referring to you're taking this thread out of context.

[Aragon of Odin]

Quick question.

I've seen 2 DRK's in here now that use the Perdu Sickle, now I'm not a DRK nor do I intend to level it past 37 but one of my LS buddies who is a hardcore DRK laughs at the Perdu Sickle, says that in no way is 5 ACC and 14 ATT worth giving up 4 or 5 base DMG for. I tend to believe him as well because isn't one base DMG on a weapon work out to be near 5 STR. So if this is the case why do DRK's chose to use this weapon over a Death Scythe or Death Scythe+1?

[orson]

I did some math for fun, so I can give something more solid than just my opinion.

A MNK in exp with Marchx2, Haste spell, and in 25% haste gear is looking at 60% haste. With Destroyers they should also have 348 delay, for about 139 overall delay after haste. I'm just going to calculate over an hour, since it's easy! Just remember this is not a realistic expectation and implies melee'ing non-stop on a mob for an hour without ever activating something/disengaging, and is just for a relative comparison!

So, over an hour, or 216000 delay, a MNK will get in 1553 attack rounds. Or, about 3106 swings. Factoring in 5% DA and 15% kicks, where a DA can proc on any attack and a kick can only attack on an attack round, it's now +232 kicks and +155 double attacks. For a total of 3493 swings, or 2969 hits with 85% acc.

With 17 hits needed to reach 100 TP after a WS, this will also result in about 174 WS (assuming you start with TP, and use 100% TP the instant you break it, and don't DA/kick for over TP). This is the major weak point, and where /SAMs get a huge advantage.

Now, since we're discussing WAR/SAM, I'll go into a decked WAR/SAM. With the same buffs and Perdu and Hasso, you're looking at 151 weapon delay.

Over an hour, this WAR will get in 1430 attack rounds. Factoring in 24% DA, this brought up to 1773. After 85% acc (although, in theory WAR should average higher acc... but let's not get into that), it's 1507 swings.

With 5 hits needed to reach 100 TP after a WS, this will result in about 301 WS (same assumptions). Giving it a huge boost in WS damage over MNK, as other people's results have shown. That's where MNK falls behind now.

Hell, if you want to get more snazzy and plug in some parse math here... With MNK averaging 100 a hit, WAR average 170 a hit, and both WS average at 1k... It's 470900 damage for the MNK versus 557190 for WAR/SAM. Assuming the same accuracy and WS averages, even though WAR is likely to be higher.

The WAR would be sponging his ass off though if you're not killing fast! While MNK wouldn't be. Unless the MNK subbed WAR, in which case it'd be closer but I think that WAR would still edge out a win.

EDIT: Made a mistake I just fixed, in regard to it only being 5 hits to reach 100 TP after a WS for WAR. I originally thought 6.

Just trying to figure out where 24% DA came from. Assuming regular builds Double Attack Trait 10%, Brutal Earring 5%, Double Attack Merits 4% not nitpicking I just am thinking to myself I'm missing 5% in my build.

[Mojo]

Quick question.

I've seen 2 DRK's in here now that use the Perdu Sickle, now I'm not a DRK nor do I intend to level it past 37 but one of my LS buddies who is a hardcore DRK laughs at the Perdu Sickle, says that in no way is 5 ACC and 14 ATT worth giving up 4 or 5 base DMG for. I tend to believe him as well because isn't one base DMG on a weapon work out to be near 5 STR. So if this is the case why do DRK's chose to use this weapon over a Death Scythe or Death Scythe+1?

It's more than just base DMG versus the latent attack and accuracy bonus, Perdu has a lower delay. /SAM, Rajas and Brutal is enough to net a 6 hit build so long as 2/3 of the last 3 hits of Guillotine land(not too much to ask for really). It's swinging 5% faster versus slightly higher damage per hit. Honestly, it's difficult to accurately compare these things. I like Perdu because that's always been my cup of tea. I also think Perdu looks loads better than the alternatives, which counts for a lot for some(me included!)

[Lyramion]

Just trying to figure out where 24% DA came from. Assuming regular builds Double Attack Trait 10%, Brutal Earring 5%, Double Attack Merits 4% not nitpicking I just am thinking to myself I'm missing 5% in my build.

5%DA merit and....bad you...of course 2% from strap! The Rest 2% from Askar Body I guess - Ares pants.. unlikely

[Grey Jorildyn]

I guess I haven't toyed around with WAR/SAM enough but it has been a silent interest. Since I am not that great at math and disliked playing SAM as it was, can someone tell me how one would achieve a 6-hit setup with WAR/SAM? I don't have a Rajas Ring but I'd appreciate the knowledge of it anyhow. Thanks~

[Lyramion]

Ramdomer Question topic had a discussion about that around here:

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=28761&p=986811&hilit=Randomer +Question+Thread+rajas#p986811


Basically you need:

- askar body
- brutal
- chivchain or new 4acc1stp ring

[RKenshin]

After a full-hit Raging Rush, you can get to 100 TP in 5 hits with just 6 STP in gear in addition to SAM sub.

Just trying to figure out where 24% DA came from. Assuming regular builds Double Attack Trait 10%, Brutal Earring 5%, Double Attack Merits 4% not nitpicking I just am thinking to myself I'm missing 5% in my build.

IMO, the ideal GA build would have fully merited DA-rate and Berserk. As much as I'd hate to have Aggressor out of sync with Berserk, a decked WAR with merits will already basically be at or incredibly close to the accuracy cap. Because of this, Aggressor merits are sort of wasted... While more DA will always benefit you, and so will having Berserk up more often.

So, 10% trait + 5% earring + 5% merits + 2% pole strap + ... hm, not sure where I got that last 2% from. Askar body could potentially add 2%, but I wouldn't really go for wearing that over Adaman Hauberk for most situations. Or, at the very least not without a Bravura. Nor would wearing Ares over Byakko's be practical.

I suppose though if you're comparing MNK and WAR and expecting an equal hit-rate between them both as decked DDs, WAR could maybe afford to wear Askar (with the only real reason being, the longer duration of Aggressor vs Focus). But I wasn't intending to imply or exemplify with that, so I'm not really sure where the 2% came in. My mistake , and sorry for any confusion.

With it at 22% DA, the new results of all that math I did:
1482 hits
296 WS
547940 damage