+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28
  1. #1
    I'm not safe on my island
    Nikkei will still get me.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    20,541
    BG Level
    10

    Looking for opinions on marriage

    First of all, i don't particularly have a favorable opinion of marriage in general. I understand that most of it is probably from having observed mostly loveless relationships with parents sticking together just for the children's sake and watching them grow more and more miserable together. I don't particularly find a point to marriage beyond reasons adhering to money, alot of that may also have to do with my age. But having read this article got me thinking about the rising divorce rates, so i'll go ahead and chip in with my opinion on this first.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2185944

    I found it funny because this is exactly the kind of reasoning that people use to defend marriage when it comes to these arguments.
    Some researchers identify out-of-wedlock births as the chief cause for the increasing stratification and inequality of American life, the first step that casts children into an ever more rigid caste system. Studies have found that children born to single mothers are vastly more likely to be poor, have behavioral and psychological problems, drop out of high school, and themselves go on to have out-of-wedlock children.

    But he didn't mention that one key to effective fatherhood is first becoming a husband.

    Having unmarried parents can be devastating for children who start out with no cushion in life. In 1999 congressional testimony, Isabel Sawhill of the Brookings Institution said that the increase in single-parent families—mostly due to unwed motherhood in the past few decades—"can account for virtually all of the increase in child poverty since 1970." A recent study found that the stress of early childhood poverty can literally damage developing brains.
    All that is being done is presenting statistical data without properly explaining them, he just grabs the conclusions and inmediatly classifies them as the effects of the lack marriage. Here, there wasn't even an attempt to explain how unwed parenthood causes these things. The idea of a single parent providing less monetary support for a child is evident, however the mention of it leading to inequality, psychological problems and school drop out is simply lazy reasoning.
    Mitt Romney mentioned the statistics in his presidential withdrawal speech. He cites declining religious observance, easily available pornography, and the possibility of gay marriage as the causes—a platform that seems unlikely to reverse the birth trends.
    Then there are those who say that...
    And to avoid the trauma of divorce, those with less education began forgoing marriage altogether. Better-educated women, who once upon a time were at a disadvantage in finding a mate, "are now more likely to marry than their non-college peers," according to the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University.

    But perhaps in our desire not to make moral judgments about personal choices, young women wholly unprepared to be mothers are not getting the message that there are dire consequences of having (unprotected) sex with guys too lame to be fathers.
    Smart people= more marriage= therefore marriage is a smart decision? Maybe it has more to do with the fact that college women may wait longer to marry/have children than marriage being the solution to all these problems. And that seems to tie in more with the with the second block, as it seems those with better education understand the need to not have children unless they are absolutely capable of handeling it. Sounds to me like the problem is people having children when they can't/shouldn't rather than them really needing to marry in the first place.

    Basicaly, this article sort of got me riled up as i saw it as another attempt to grab current problems in any given society and try to use them as justification for a more conservative agenda, that is, that all the bad things that happen now are happening because we're divorcing more/getting married less. What are your opinions on the article and on the idea of marriage in general? Also sorry for long post.

  2. #2
    The Optimistic Asshole
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    24,942
    BG Level
    10
    FFXIV Character
    Tyche Six
    FFXIV Server
    Tonberry

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    I grew up with divorced parents and I turned out fine. My sister dropped out of high school. Everyone is different. I don't understand the getting married for money theory. I'm not saving that much on insurance and the wedding is nearing $10000. I'm getting married because I love her...we were engaged before she ever was pregnant. That had no bearing.

  3. #3
    Banned.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,159
    BG Level
    9

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya
    justification for a more conservative agenda, that is, that all the bad things that happen now are happening because we're divorcing more/getting married less. What are your opinions on the article and on the idea of marriage in general?
    Lol guartz much? I did not read the article, but my point of view on marriage is that on the money side makes things easier, that is if you happen to find somebody with similar interests and that also works. Of course you don't need to get married in order to be financially better, is just kind of the next logical step in a fine tuned relationship. What I have noticed however is that lately people treats marriage like going to the movies (read: an everyday thing) and thinks that if it does not work you can just divorce. Therefore more and more people just goes from relationship into relationship.

    If and when I do find somebody worth spending the rest of my life with, I'll think of marriage as the logical step, unless the other person is cool with just being together. And yes in this day and age, being with one person still works.


    Edit: what Tyche said too.

  4. #4

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Marriage can be similar to having kids. It can be the most rewarding experience you ever do, but it takes alot of work. It is a bond between two people to support each other through good and bad times, which means you have to endure the bad times of both yourself and your spouse, but also get twice the good times. You get to learn more about what kind of person you are, and what your strengths and weaknesses are.

    It should only be entered into by 2 people whom know they can work through any issue and want to make a financial, emotional, and physical connection with that person for the next 60 years. Never get married because of infatuation, or convieniance, or loneliness. Never get married because of a baby, or because you feel like you "owe them" for time you have spent in a relationship.

    Marriage was the best thing I have done with my life, but also the hardest.

    (also, marry a chick that likes other chicks).

  5. #5
    I'm not safe on my island
    Nikkei will still get me.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    20,541
    BG Level
    10

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tajin
    Lol guartz much?
    You do understand what an agenda is right? In this context it means that most people with a strong conservative base would rather see more marriage instead of any alternative options for it. Hence the idea is to defend marriage even when it may not have relevance. They aren't sitting in a dark room with Gendo glasses laughing maniacally at the idea that the world is blind to the fact that they want monogamous marriage to be the staple of western civilization. Difference is, everyone knows that they support it, and so do liberals if you look at the aftermath of the AIDs scare and the homosexual community.

  6. #6
    Banned.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,159
    BG Level
    9

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Yeah I understood what you meant, I even made a whole wall-o-text in serious mode and you pick on the joke -,-

    I WANT DIVORCE!

  7. #7
    Banned.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,159
    BG Level
    9

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra
    Marriage can be similar to having kids. It can be the most rewarding experience you ever do, but it takes alot of work. It is a bond between two people to support each other through good and bad times, which means you have to endure the bad times of both yourself and your spouse, but also get twice the good times. You get to learn more about what kind of person you are, and what your strengths and weaknesses are.

    It should only be entered into by 2 people whom know they can work through any issue and want to make a financial, emotional, and physical connection with that person for the next 60 years. Never get married because of infatuation, or convieniance, or loneliness. Never get married because of a baby, or because you feel like you "owe them" for time you have spent in a relationship.

    Marriage was the best thing I have done with my life, but also the hardest.

    (also, marry a chick that likes other chicks).
    Well put.

  8. #8
    Black Belt
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,833
    BG Level
    8

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    The error in the article seems to be that they don't compare children with 2 dedicated but unmarried parents versus children with 2 married and dedicated parents. Instead they compare children with 1 parent or an otherwise "broken" home to the "standard" 2 married parents household.

  9. #9
    I'm not safe on my island
    Nikkei will still get me.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    20,541
    BG Level
    10

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin
    The error in the article seems to be that they don't compare children with 2 dedicated but unmarried parents versus children with 2 married and dedicated parents. Instead they compare children with 1 parent or an otherwise "broken" home to the "standard" 2 married parents household.
    Exactly, the reasoning is strange to me. It seems to imply that marriage is what fixes these issues instead of say, two dedicated individuals that don't even need to be related by blood. Also i don't attack the idea that a single parent can't make it work if he truly puts forth the effort, but it is silly that it makes it seem that marriage is required for two people to be together.

    And echoing what Tyche said, i was raised by two parents, biological mother, and step father, they only married when i was arond 9 for monetary reasons. I can't say they were very happy with eachother, but the relationship worked out allright. I consider myself a good product of their work and i don't see how marriage would have made the situation better.

  10. #10
    The Optimistic Asshole
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    24,942
    BG Level
    10
    FFXIV Character
    Tyche Six
    FFXIV Server
    Tonberry

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya
    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin
    The error in the article seems to be that they don't compare children with 2 dedicated but unmarried parents versus children with 2 married and dedicated parents. Instead they compare children with 1 parent or an otherwise "broken" home to the "standard" 2 married parents household.
    Exactly, the reasoning is strange to me. It seems to imply that marriage is what fixes these issues instead of say, two dedicated individuals that don't even need to be related by blood. Also i don't attack the idea that a single parent can't make it work if he truly puts forth the effort, but it is silly that it makes it seem that marriage is required for two people to be together.

    And echoing what Tyche said, i was raised by two parents, biological mother, and step father, they only married when i was arond 9 for monetary reasons. I can't say they were very happy with eachother, but the relationship worked out allright. I consider myself a good product of their work and i don't see how marriage would have made the situation better.
    Or made it worse. I think it's hard to correlate behavior patterns of children specifically to marriage. As I said, my sister and I both were raised in divorced environments and we are as alike as day and night. She dropped out of high school, lives in an apartment in the ghetto, and got knocked up by a married guy. I didn't turn out quite that bad...There's exceptions to every rule, sure, but I really can't see a "rule" here. Sounds more like coincidence and societal changes than a correlation.

  11. #11

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya
    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin
    The error in the article seems to be that they don't compare children with 2 dedicated but unmarried parents versus children with 2 married and dedicated parents. Instead they compare children with 1 parent or an otherwise "broken" home to the "standard" 2 married parents household.
    Exactly, the reasoning is strange to me. It seems to imply that marriage is what fixes these issues instead of say, two dedicated individuals that don't even need to be related by blood. Also i don't attack the idea that a single parent can't make it work if he truly puts forth the effort, but it is silly that it makes it seem that marriage is required for two people to be together.

    And echoing what Tyche said, i was raised by two parents, biological mother, and step father, they only married when i was arond 9 for monetary reasons. I can't say they were very happy with eachother, but the relationship worked out allright. I consider myself a good product of their work and i don't see how marriage would have made the situation better.
    Or made it worse. I think it's hard to correlate behavior patterns of children specifically to marriage. As I said, my sister and I both were raised in divorced environments and we are as alike as day and night. She dropped out of high school, lives in an apartment in the ghetto, and got knocked up by a married guy. I didn't turn out quite that bad...There's exceptions to every rule, sure, but I really can't see a "rule" here. Sounds more like coincidence and societal changes than a correlation.
    This brings up the whole "Nature vs. Nurture" debate. My wife and I discuss this often and we have come to agree to disagree.

  12. #12
    I'm not safe on my island
    Nikkei will still get me.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    20,541
    BG Level
    10

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGSTIC
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya
    Quote Originally Posted by Beckwin
    The error in the article seems to be that they don't compare children with 2 dedicated but unmarried parents versus children with 2 married and dedicated parents. Instead they compare children with 1 parent or an otherwise "broken" home to the "standard" 2 married parents household.
    Exactly, the reasoning is strange to me. It seems to imply that marriage is what fixes these issues instead of say, two dedicated individuals that don't even need to be related by blood. Also i don't attack the idea that a single parent can't make it work if he truly puts forth the effort, but it is silly that it makes it seem that marriage is required for two people to be together.

    And echoing what Tyche said, i was raised by two parents, biological mother, and step father, they only married when i was arond 9 for monetary reasons. I can't say they were very happy with eachother, but the relationship worked out allright. I consider myself a good product of their work and i don't see how marriage would have made the situation better.
    Or made it worse. I think it's hard to correlate behavior patterns of children specifically to marriage. As I said, my sister and I both were raised in divorced environments and we are as alike as day and night. She dropped out of high school, lives in an apartment in the ghetto, and got knocked up by a married guy. I didn't turn out quite that bad...There's exceptions to every rule, sure, but I really can't see a "rule" here. Sounds more like coincidence and societal changes than a correlation.
    This brings up the whole "Nature vs. Nurture" debate. My wife and I discuss this often and we have come to agree to disagree.
    It is pretty much agreed that that debate is over, as it is better understood now that they both work together.

  13. #13
    E. Body
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,181
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Bro Teampill
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Ifrit

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    I don't really believe in marriage, even though oddly enough I'm engaged. Ok not really oddly, my place of employment only covers hetero couples if they are married. However, if I liked cock I could get away without being married, as long as I lived my homo boyfriend, and have insurance cover him. I thought about a lawsuit, but career > lawsuit, so I am stuck getting married if I want to stop having to pay for my woman's medical and dental. I do love her of course, and can see myself spending the rest of my life with her anyway, so if getting married gives us benefits, then whatever. We'll wear rings and have insurance.

  14. #14
    Everybody's Favourite Nobody
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,199
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Why are you so opinionated all the time Kuya





    srsly

  15. #15
    I'm not safe on my island
    Nikkei will still get me.

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    20,541
    BG Level
    10

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    I have a big mouth.

  16. #16
    Salvage Bans
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    984
    BG Level
    5

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya
    I have a big mouth.
    so that's why Rocl loves you

  17. #17
    Everybody's Favourite Nobody
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,199
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by finale23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya
    I have a big mouth.
    so that's why Rocl loves you
    It all falls into place....

  18. #18
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    12,469
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Septimus Atumre
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Fhqwghads
    I don't really believe in marriage, even though oddly enough I'm engaged. Ok not really oddly, my place of employment only covers hetero couples if they are married. However, if I liked cock I could get away without being married, as long as I lived my homo boyfriend, and have insurance cover him. I thought about a lawsuit, but career > lawsuit, so I am stuck getting married if I want to stop having to pay for my woman's medical and dental. I do love her of course, and can see myself spending the rest of my life with her anyway, so if getting married gives us benefits, then whatever. We'll wear rings and have insurance.
    Yup, isn't it so awesome that homosexuals have the choice to get benefits for their partners even if they don't get married. Oh, wait...

    Yes, unmarried opposite-sex partners should get the option to have domestic partner benefits, but same-sex partners should also get the option to get married.

    And I don't say that because I want to get married, I've seen too many divorces in my time to add another to the pile.

  19. #19

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    Yup, isn't it so awesome that homosexuals have the choice to get benefits for their partners even if they don't get married. Oh, wait...

    Yes, unmarried opposite-sex partners should get the option to have domestic partner benefits, but same-sex partners should also get the option to get married.

    And I don't say that because I want to get married, I've seen too many divorces in my time to add another to the pile.
    Why don't gays get married in secret if they already get all the fiscal benefits of marriage anyway? Is the FBI going to storm in your house and arrest you if you call your domestic partner your husband?

  20. #20
    E. Body
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,181
    BG Level
    7
    FFXIV Character
    Bro Teampill
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Ifrit

    Re: Looking for opinions on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhqwghads
    I don't really believe in marriage, even though oddly enough I'm engaged. Ok not really oddly, my place of employment only covers hetero couples if they are married. However, if I liked cock I could get away without being married, as long as I lived my homo boyfriend, and have insurance cover him. I thought about a lawsuit, but career > lawsuit, so I am stuck getting married if I want to stop having to pay for my woman's medical and dental. I do love her of course, and can see myself spending the rest of my life with her anyway, so if getting married gives us benefits, then whatever. We'll wear rings and have insurance.
    Yup, isn't it so awesome that homosexuals have the choice to get benefits for their partners even if they don't get married. Oh, wait...

    Yes, unmarried opposite-sex partners should get the option to have domestic partner benefits, but same-sex partners should also get the option to get married.

    And I don't say that because I want to get married, I've seen too many divorces in my time to add another to the pile.
    Yeah I agree Septimus. While I'm not a believer in marriage, if other people want to, gay or straight, they should be able to. However, there is a distinction here in my opinion. I'm basically forced into marriage for the sake of my partner's health, but if I was gay I'd have coverage without the need for that kind of commitment.