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  1. #21
    Ridill
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Selling third-party services is not something you can just sit down and outlaw.

    Or maybe you'd like it if your car manufacturer could force you to only use their auto shops when maintaining your car?
    Except the car is mine; neither my character nor it's virtual possessions are mine. Not even the software is completely mine, it's got all sorts of licensing restrictions on it.

    I can resell a car to anyone. I can even make alterations to it. However, most software that does allow you to redistribute it restricts alterations.

    Hell, there are even some tangible real world products that restrict resale, like those little bottles of condiments that come in a pack at Costco that have the label "NOT FOR INDIVIDUAL RESALE" on them.

    Scalping isn't allowed either, despite you buying the ticket.

    There's a ton of examples out there where you are restricted on what you can do with someone else's product, as far as making a business out of it without their permission.

  2. #22
    Ridill
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamsin
    Quote Originally Posted by aurik
    Selling third-party services is not something you can just sit down and outlaw.

    Or maybe you'd like it if your car manufacturer could force you to only use their auto shops when maintaining your car?
    Except the car is mine; neither my character nor it's virtual possessions are mine. Not even the software is completely mine, it's got all sorts of licensing restrictions on it.
    He's not selling or modifying characters or virtual possessions, nor is he selling or distributing Blizzard's software.

    I can resell a car to anyone. I can even make alterations to it.
    He's not selling characters or making alterations to characters.

    However, most software that does allow you to redistribute it restricts alterations.
    He is not distributing software that he does not have copyright on.

    Hell, there are even some tangible real world products that restrict resale, like those little bottles of condiments that come in a pack at Costco that have the label "NOT FOR INDIVIDUAL RESALE" on them.

    Scalping isn't allowed either, despite you buying the ticket.
    Thats because you're purchasing property with the agreement it's non-transferable and then transferring it, which violates the original sale contract. Since he is distributing property that is wholly his own, they have no enforceable interest in how he can or cannot distribute it.

    There's a ton of examples out there where you are restricted on what you can do with someone else's product, as far as making a business out of it without their permission.
    But not many examples where you are restricted on what you can do with your own product which is neither a derivative work nor primarly intended to defeat copy-control mechanisms.

  3. #23
    blax n gunz
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    I guess it's pretty clear that Blizzard would rather spend the money it would take to sue the bot writer into bankruptcy than spend the money on playing cat and mouse with his detection-avoidance code.

  4. #24
    Ridill
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Quote Originally Posted by Correction
    I guess it's pretty clear that Blizzard would rather spend the money it would take to sue the bot writer into bankruptcy than spend the money on playing cat and mouse with his detection-avoidance code.
    TBH, technologically there is very little they can do. Blizzard's "Warden" program checksums the running game executable to detect if any illicit changes have been made to the code in RAM. What the cheating tool does to sidestep this is it caches the entire running game executable before modifying it, and then intercepts the checksum step and redirects it to check only the cached "clean" binary image.

    Blizzard is claiming that this caching step is making an unauthorized copy of the game, and therefore violating their sole right to make reproductions.

    However, it's not clear whether creating a temporary cache of the executable while the game is running a violation of copyright. In fact, based on existing case law, there's an extremely strong argument that it is "fair use".

  5. #25
    Bagel
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    the entire BG forum should just set up a law firm to deal with any interweb mishaps!

  6. #26
    Cerberus
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Trying to figure out what kind of automation he's using that isn't already emulated in the massive orgy of addons that already exist for the game, legally, and welcomed by Blizzard. I mean, seriously, what doesn't get automated by massive macros and scripts in WoW by legal addons that he's using? You can even heal a 25-man raid while basically AFK right now.

  7. #27
    blax n gunz
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Blizzard draws the line on 'addons' at pure automation. I can create an addon that sorts the contents of my bags while I farm. I cannot create an addon that does the farming for me.

    Ultimately though such addons are a complete waste of time and money. Glide is ostensibly for 'levelling alts' but the only reason to buy it is the mining/fishing/herbalism/skinning bot, and even then I'm assuming it's not smart enough for outlands, where the best stuff requires you to dismount/remount and fly around fairly often.

  8. #28
    Ridill
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    I would just like to take a moment here to point out that he has sold over 100,000 copies of glider.


    I believe he sells it for $24.95.


    That's 2.5 million dollars.



    For writing a rootkit and a macro program.



    Holy fuck a duck.

  9. #29
    Ridill
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Quote Originally Posted by Venture
    Trying to figure out what kind of automation he's using that isn't already emulated in the massive orgy of addons that already exist for the game, legally, and welcomed by Blizzard. I mean, seriously, what doesn't get automated by massive macros and scripts in WoW by legal addons that he's using? You can even heal a 25-man raid while basically AFK right now.
    The article specifies that it fights for you, among other things.

  10. #30
    Ridill
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Oh, yeah, for those that don't know what it is, it quite literally moves you around and pushes in-game buttons.


    Obviously detects enemies, watches your health, that kind of stuff to keep you alive, but yeah, it's literally made to just do solo grinding for you.



    Oh, also, one really interesting thing about it-- I remember when reading the creator's opinions about it a couple years ago, he said that it's specifically designed not to function in PVP / battlegrounds, and that he had no intention ever making it because he felt like that would be infringing upon other players, whereas simply leveling or farming gold would not...

    Sounded like a crock of shit to me then, and that he just figured if he made it work for pvp they'd come after him hard, and now I think a big part of the reason they are going after him hard is the issues with afk'ers in bg's.

  11. #31
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fhqwghads
    Nah I disagree with you there. Guns don't have a single-minded purpose. You can target practice with them, go hunting game with them, collect them as a hobby, and I'm sure lots of other things besides shooting people with them. The software this person is selling has one purpose, and one purpose only: add functionality to World of Warcraft that the developers never intended. You can't use his software to do your taxes with, nor play a different game with, nor browse the web. I would say he had a leg to stand on if it was a framework library built to interface with any number of applications, but this is absolutely targeting one specific app. He's wrong, and the only way he'll win is if there's a loophole in the TOS that he can exploit.
    Gaming companies have used that very same argument to try and illegalize things like emulators and modchips, but it has never worked.

  12. #32
    ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Quote Originally Posted by fantasticdan
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhqwghads
    Nah I disagree with you there. Guns don't have a single-minded purpose. You can target practice with them, go hunting game with them, collect them as a hobby, and I'm sure lots of other things besides shooting people with them. The software this person is selling has one purpose, and one purpose only: add functionality to World of Warcraft that the developers never intended. You can't use his software to do your taxes with, nor play a different game with, nor browse the web. I would say he had a leg to stand on if it was a framework library built to interface with any number of applications, but this is absolutely targeting one specific app. He's wrong, and the only way he'll win is if there's a loophole in the TOS that he can exploit.
    Gaming companies have used that very same argument to try and illegalize things like emulators and modchips, but it has never worked.

    Because those things have the alternate purpose of playing your own back ups for original titles the person already owns. They're not used soley for piracy. That is their loop hole.

  13. #33
    Ridill
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Mod chips exist to play "unauthorized" software. Not all unauthorized software is illegal -- homebrew, for example. The key question for mod chips is whether they exist primarily to circumvent copy control, or whether they exist for another purpose for which circumventing copy control is a side-effect. Under the DMCA, the former is illegal and the latter is not.

    In any case, there's a strong case that the in-RAM copy of the original process space made by the bot falls under sec.117 (a)(2):
    § 117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs

    (a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy. — Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

    ...

    (2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.
    The in-RAM cache is an essentially an archive of the original process space and is destroyed when the application is halted.

  14. #34
    Ridill
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    Re: Legal battle over Warcraft 'bot'

    Here is the main reason why there will never be legislation banning bots and hack from MMOs.

    This man, and equally uninformed crotchety old men, would be involved in crafting said legislation. And thusly it would hurt us more than it would help.

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