Fitna

[Neosutra]

Why is it that when a topic about race or something comes up, half the people argue in favor of keeping an open mind, but then when the subject is religion it's suddenly okay to prejudicly bash it? Keeping an open mind is no longer okay because someone thinks differently than you do? How's that any better than racism?

If people used race as a justification to kill, further violence, opress people, and hamper the spread of scienctific knowlege then I think they would be the same discussion.

Are you fucking kidding me?

I see your point, very enlightening.

[Correction]

It's impossible to tell if Neosutra is being ironic about the 'using race to oppress' remark. If he is, then his reply to Gafgarionn makes zero sense. If he isn't, he's not yet gotten to social studies yet at high school. Or failed it. Or was homeschooled in the deep south.

[Neosutra]

It's impossible to tell if Neosutra is being ironic about the 'using race to oppress' remark. If he is, then his reply to Gafgarionn makes zero sense. If he isn't, he's not yet gotten to social studies yet at high school. Or failed it. Or was homeschooled in the deep south.

Or you could both learn to read a bit more and realize what everyone else realized, that I was saying that equating racism to religious intolerance was inaccurate due to one being a socialogical set of ideals that someone may or may not follow and one being a set of similar genetic features.

Do people read posts before they respond or are they just that stupid?

[Lee]

Heh, a little update on this. Just releasing this movie proved it in a way true. There have been constant hacking attacks and DDOS attacks on the site, since it agreed to host the video. And now, it apparently was too much.

Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.
Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.
We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high.

[Demosthenes11]

Keeping an open mind is no longer okay because someone thinks differently than you do? How's that any better than racism?

Race is something you can't change about yourself. Religion is a submission of your will to faith, and something that people choose to be a part of their whole lives. So no, it's not the same as racism. Most of the people who can't stand religion probably had some measure of religious upbringing. [b]I spent two years being raised by nuns so when I say Catholics are full of shit I'm speaking from experience. That's far from prejudicial bashing.[/b]

But really, welcome to the internet, where we often leave off adjectives like 'radical' and 'extremist' when discussing how fucking retarded religion is whenever it makes headlines like this.

10/10
um, people can't hate black people even based on their "being around them for years," because it's an unfair stereotype. But that's ok when it comes to religion right? Do you understand the irony in the bolded statement? Blatant contradiction in the very next sentence...

[Neosutra]

Keeping an open mind is no longer okay because someone thinks differently than you do? How's that any better than racism?

Race is something you can't change about yourself. Religion is a submission of your will to faith, and something that people choose to be a part of their whole lives. So no, it's not the same as racism. Most of the people who can't stand religion probably had some measure of religious upbringing. [b]I spent two years being raised by nuns so when I say Catholics are full of shit I'm speaking from experience. That's far from prejudicial bashing.[/b]

But really, welcome to the internet, where we often leave off adjectives like 'radical' and 'extremist' when discussing how fucking retarded religion is whenever it makes headlines like this.

10/10
um, people can't hate black people even based on their "being around them for years," because it's an unfair stereotype. But that's ok when it comes to religion right? Do you understand the irony in the bolded statement? Blatant contradiction in the very next sentence...

Because one is a hatred of a set of ideals that everyone in that dogma has decided to follow and one is a set of genetic features and holds no relation to any actions?

[Demosthenes11]

because all catholics believe the same things amirite?

[Neosutra]

because all catholics believe the same things amirite?

God? yes.

And last time I checked the catholic church is actually one of the few religious cults that is regimented enough to have sanctioned "beleifs", i.e. a capital and "leader" to establish what exactly you should believe as a catholic.

[Demosthenes11]

lmao

seriously, good show. Hate people because they believe in a GOD? LOL

and the pope is the "president" of the catholic church. Is bush representative of you and what you want for this country?

[Maxxthepenguin]

Why do people ignore all the good that Religion does, both for its followers personally and for the public

[Neosutra]

lmao

seriously, good show. Hate people because they believe in a GOD? LOL

and the pope is the "president" of the catholic church. Is bush representative of you and what you want for this country?

You cant equate the pop to bush, as the pope can literally tell his followers what they are supposed to beleive.

And no one is hating someone for beleiving in god, but thats not to say we cant /facepalm at it and disagree with its core principles.

And to Max:

As said in previous posts, I dont beleive religion does any good, it only takes credit for good things done by compasionate people that could have done them w/o a fictional being. Religion does a hell of alot more harm than any good it shamelessly takes credit for.

[Blarg]

KKK makes charitable donations too, why don't we look at that when we talk about them.

Edit. No I'm not saying catholics are as bad as KKK or anything like that.

[Maguspk]

As said in previous posts, I dont beleive religion does any good, it only takes credit for good things done by compasionate people that could have done them w/o a fictional being. Religion does a hell of alot more harm than any good it shamelessly takes credit for.

Then why is it suddenly ok to associate all the bad an individual does with the entire religion and not the "good"?

In all cases it's an individuals ultimate choice as to what actions to take.

[Neosutra]

As said in previous posts, I dont beleive religion does any good, it only takes credit for good things done by compasionate people that could have done them w/o a fictional being. Religion does a hell of alot more harm than any good it shamelessly takes credit for.

Then why is it suddenly ok to associate all the bad an individual does with the entire religion and not the "good"?

In all cases it's an individuals ultimate choice as to what actions to take.

Because incase you missed it, I was associating the very belief in god as counterproductive and thus bad, and the good as having no relation to the religion what so ever (i.e. you dont need gods permision to help someone).

[Woozie]

As said in previous posts, I dont beleive religion does any good, it only takes credit for good things done by compasionate people that could have done them w/o a fictional being. Religion does a hell of alot more harm than any good it shamelessly takes credit for.

Then why is it suddenly ok to associate all the bad an individual does with the entire religion and not the "good"?

In all cases it's an individuals ultimate choice as to what actions to take.

Because incase you missed it, I was associating the very belief in god as counterproductive and thus bad, and the good as having no relation to the religion what so ever (i.e. you dont need gods permision to help someone).

You don't need God's permission to kill someone either, but somehow that's all religion's fault, yet religion doesn't get credit for the good?

[Correction]

because all catholics believe the same things amirite?

It's not up to the individual worshipper to pick and choose what part of catholicism you own. It's enshrined in the The Nicene Creed

...

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

You don't get to sit in church every week and fake it when you say these things. You don't get to just go 'MM HMM HMMM HM HM HM HMMMMM HMM' and pretend it's okay to skip that particular part of Catholicism. If you do, and many catholics will, you are a hypocrite. So yeah, catholics who say they're pro-choice and that the pope isn't really telling THEM not to use prophylactics are full of shit. Catholicism is an unquestioning loyalty to the church, and the church is completely out of touch with modern societies.

Fuck the Catholic church.

[Maguspk]

As said in previous posts, I dont beleive religion does any good, it only takes credit for good things done by compasionate people that could have done them w/o a fictional being. Religion does a hell of alot more harm than any good it shamelessly takes credit for.

Then why is it suddenly ok to associate all the bad an individual does with the entire religion and not the "good"?

In all cases it's an individuals ultimate choice as to what actions to take.

Because incase you missed it, I was associating the very belief in god as counterproductive and thus bad, and the good as having no relation to the religion what so ever (i.e. you dont need gods permision to help someone).

There is is again, the belief in god is not bad. It's the actions an individual chooses to take based on his reasoning(s) which are bad. It's fairly obvious you have a strong dislike for religion but I don't see how you can just blanket statement the belief in god as bad. If someone believes god just gives them a nice afterlife and that's it, that isn't fucking harming anyone. It's not detrimenting society, it's not hurting my children, it's not hurting my wife, it's not hurting my family, it's only making them happy. It has nothing to do with what they do, in the long run, it's their choice.

[Neosutra]

As said in previous posts, I dont beleive religion does any good, it only takes credit for good things done by compasionate people that could have done them w/o a fictional being. Religion does a hell of alot more harm than any good it shamelessly takes credit for.

Then why is it suddenly ok to associate all the bad an individual does with the entire religion and not the "good"?

In all cases it's an individuals ultimate choice as to what actions to take.

Because incase you missed it, I was associating the very belief in god as counterproductive and thus bad, and the good as having no relation to the religion what so ever (i.e. you dont need gods permision to help someone).

You don't need God's permission to kill someone either, but somehow that's all religion's fault, yet religion doesn't get credit for the good?

Ofcourse not:

I see what your saying, that these people are motivated to kill via their religion and we blame religion. And they are motivated to help people via their religion and we dont credit the religion. The difference comes in the fact that humanitarianism is a socially acceptable and encouraged action while mass murder is not. It is human nature to be compasionate and help others, it is not however human nature to murder people because a god told you too.

Its about seperating the good and bad, and the plain truth is:

You can still help people and it be acceptable wether it is because a god told you too, or because its the right thing to do. You cannot however murder someone, or spread ignorance and fear, and have it be acceptable in any sense.

Besides, can we really give someone credit for helping someone if the only reason they do it is because they think they will get kudos in heaven? And if their spiritual reward has no factor in their equation to help, then religion had nothing to do with it in the first place.

There is no benefit to mass delusion besides temporary psychological comfort at the cost of mental instability.


To magus:

And there is the rub, I was stating that belief in god is infact detrimental, even if at the base level of just saying "hey there is a cool afterlife". I am coming from the point of view that delusional thoughts of supernatural happenings are detrimental to a person and a society, even if they dont realize it. Many alchoholics dont realize how much their drinks hurt them, because they provide temporary relief to their psychological pain.

And where the fuck is izzy, he should have popped in by now and proclaimed any atheist arguing religion on the internet was actually religious by now.

[aurik]

Hating someone for choices they make is somewhat better than hating someone for things they had no control over.

[Neosutra]

Hating someone for choices they make is somewhat better than hating someone for things they had no control over.

Agreed, but I would go further to say that no one hates the person for the choices they are making, but rather hating the choices themselves. I dont hate religious people, 90% of my friends are religious. I just think that their dogmas are counterproductive.