15 year old gay kid, killed

[Deejay]

You shot her.

I'm i taking crazy pills here, or does it seem like some people are really trying too hard to find a way to blame something on the gay kid?

edit: the example was terrible, you have the black woman actively doing something that anyone would find annoying, a kid using make up and heels is a completely different situation.

Because the average 13 year old boy wouldn't find another boy dressed up in high heels, makeup, and jewelry annoying? Theres a difference between being gay and being flamboyantly gay. Don't try and tell me that people don't find that annoying.

Another problem, you shot her for yelling, you shot her, honestly now. The guy who shot her wasn't even a racist apperently, he just hated her yelling, as opposed to kids being expertly trained in the arts of gays are bad.

Hey i'm not prejudice against gay people, I only shoot them in the head when they hit on me! And since when does it matter if his hatred was learned or instinctive?

If that's the best you got then I don't even know why you bothered posting.

[Cyn]

To even think that you guys are implying that parents should let their middle school boys dress up in high heels, makeup, and dresses to go to school is appalling to say the least. Much in the same way it would be appalling to let your middle school DAUGHTER go out of the house like that. Kuya and Beckwin, you're not preaching tolerance, you're just being fucking stupid. And I'm saying this from the far left, mind you. Nobody thinks the kid deserved to be shot, but to blame America because this kid didn't have a fucking ounce of self-preservation is idiocy at best. YES, America has a long fucking way to go in terms of gay rights, but if you compare it to even 20 years ago, we've come a long fucking way, and are on the right track by large.

When that grizzly dude got eaten by a bear, we were all like "Hahaha, wtf, he should have known better that to fuck with bears..." I mean, sure, it was totally the bear's choice to eat the dude, but bears being bears, why would you try to befriend (hit on?) a wild one?

And Deejay, is there another kind of black girl?

[Beckwin]

so another person who wants to equate going drag in middle school with tempting Death himself.

and way to compare a hateful, brutal murderer to a grizzly bear. /slowclap

you know, if you instead compare the grizzly bear to the gay kid, you'd at least have a reason for shooting it at your school.

[Cyn]

Kids have been killing kids in schools now for a long time. Why is it suddenly a gay issue? Come the fuck on, this is an issue of kids killing each other in school. I'm not insensitive to the fact that it's a hate crime, but the fact that he was mad at the young Mr King because he hit on him is the least of the issues involved here. Would it have been somehow ok if the kid shot a girl that turned him down to the dance?

I have 10 piercings, yet I work as a professional in a corporate environment. You have to understand that there's a time and a place for expressing your individuality. It's much the same for drag queens, unless you're a professional drag entertainer, you take the fucking make-up and heels off in situations of school, work, etc. And if you're 13 years old and fail to understand this, it's your parents and teachers jobs to guide you.

And FUCKING NO, it's not a justification for shooting someone, but come the fuck on, stop trying to turn this into a campaign against the homophobia of America, when it really is another example of the growing tragedy of children turning to violence to answer petty disputes.

[Beckwin]

Kids have been killing kids in schools now for a long time. Why is it suddenly a gay issue? Come the fuck on, this is an issue of kids killing each other in school. I'm not insensitive to the fact that it's a hate crime, but the fact that he was mad at the young Mr King because he hit on him is the least of the issues involved here. Would it have been somehow ok if the kid shot a girl that turned him down to the dance?

I have 10 piercings, yet I work as a professional in a corporate environment. You have to understand that there's a time and a place for expressing your individuality. It's much the same for drag queens, unless you're a professional drag entertainer, you take the fucking make-up and heels off in situations of school, work, etc. And if you're 13 years old and fail to understand this, it's your parents and teachers jobs to guide you.

And FUCKING NO, it's not a justification for shooting someone, but come the fuck on, stop trying to turn this into a campaign against the homophobia of America, when it really is another example of the growing tragedy of children turning to violence to answer petty disputes.

have you read the topic or not? My gripe was how incredulous it was that anyone would try to place a shred of blame on the gay kid for his own murder. I guess it's just fitting that the urge to blame the kid is right along the line of the reason he was shot- being uncomfortable and threatened by sexuality outside the 'norm'. Despite all the "I don't hate gays but" and "I even have gay friends" and "not saying he deserved it but"s, it essentially pares down to, at some level or to some degree, "that faggot had it coming to him". Like I said in my first post in this topic, people would be singing a different tune if it had been any other kid that got shot for standing up to a bully.

If it had been any other kid, we'd be having the same gun control debate that we had earlier in the week mixed in with talking about the murderer's parents.

[archibaldcrane]

Been away from my computer all day, but I want to reiterate this:

I think that hitting on kids who bully you for being gay is an ABSOLUTELY FUCKING BRILLIANT defense to bullying. It could not possibly be more perfect in design or execution. It does increase the possibility for a more violent reaction, but if you aren't concerned with that, it's perfect.

Hitting on your bully is just another way of saying "Yeah, I am a cock-sucking faggot, and clearly I don't care that you think so - look at how fucking spectacularly gay I am, your words mean nothing." And you get your little digs of "haha you must be gay too I'm hitting on you" in at the same time. It's fabulous.

The only time you shouldn't attempt to counter a bully is if you want to avoid violence at all costs. Bringing a gun to what should be a fistfight at most is about the most faggoty (no offense Tonko et al) thing you can do, and it shouldn't be a fear in bully situations. You can't expect the 1 in a million bully encounter to end in firearms.

[Demosthenes]

They were both retarded.

[Cyn]

It's obviously too late, but hopefully it won't be too little.

[Kuya]

Because the average 13 year old boy wouldn't find another boy dressed up in high heels, makeup, and jewelry annoying? Theres a difference between being gay and being flamboyantly gay. Don't try and tell me that people don't find that annoying.

Once again, this is irrelevant. We've already discussed that the chances of getting shot up by a guy because he was hit on was pretty unlikely in the first place, Larry had no reason to believe he would be shot, no one else would have believed that Brian would have shot him. Stop bringing this up again and again and again when it's already been discussed. He fought back agaisnt someone, that someone shot him, we're discussing what the underlining reasons for this were, and Brian somehow being more dangerous than the other boys is not an issue.

Hey i'm not prejudice against gay people, I only shoot them in the head when they hit on me! And since when does it matter if his hatred was learned or instinctive?

If that's the best you got then I don't even know why you bothered posting.

We've already established that you do not know the difference between racism, stereotyping, and prejudice, and now you mention instinctive hatred. You've been consistently the person in this thread who has tossed the most ridiculous arguments in the most laziest of manners. I've said again and again and again that accusing the boy of being a homophobe is useless because we do not know about the boy's upbringing, but we do know that schools are not very welcoming to homosexuality or anything outside of gender norms, which i've already stated is a reflection of the attitude the older generation still gives off. The arguments so far that we should just accept that schools are like this, because somehow hatred towards homosexuals or gender ambiguity is natural for children, is contestable, and does not even try to explain itself. "This is how children naturally behave". Oh really? How about you explain why that is how they naturally behave, i've exposed why i believe it's not, yet i've not seen anyone else explain how this is natural to kids while arguing agaisnt the idea that it is learned.

To even think that you guys are implying that parents should let their middle school boys dress up in high heels, makeup, and dresses to go to school is appalling to say the least.

Appalling because? Please do not make absolute statements like that as if they were some sort of universal truth that has no relation to culture.

Nobody thinks the kid deserved to be shot, but to blame America because this kid didn't have a fucking ounce of self-preservation is idiocy at best. YES, America has a long fucking way to go in terms of gay rights, but if you compare it to even 20 years ago, we've come a long fucking way, and are on the right track by large.

Why are you bringing in the word America specifically, when i've been mentioning western world, and in actually, alot of the world is responsible for this. Please do not try to sell the people reading the thread with this "Look, he's attacking America!" bit, i think people are smart enough to realise that not all of the USA is like this, but the situation is still very stressed. It should also be of even more concern to them that when someone stands up agaisnt their tormenters, others argue that he somehow did something wrong for provoking their own demise. Evidently, some of the people who are saying Larry shouldn't have dressed like that in order to not get killed or even hit on the boys, do not agree with the idea that gender norms are not set in stone, and it appears to make them uncomfortable.

I don't get the bear part.

[Deejay]

So going to school with saggy pants is wrong, but wearing make-up, high heels, and jewelry is merely "expressing your individuality?"

What the fuck? This is such a silly argument lol.

Because the average 13 year old boy wouldn't find another boy dressed up in high heels, makeup, and jewelry annoying? Theres a difference between being gay and being flamboyantly gay. Don't try and tell me that people don't find that annoying.

Once again, this is irrelevant. We've already discussed that the chances of getting shot up by a guy because he was hit on was pretty unlikely in the first place, Larry had no reason to believe he would be shot, no one else would have believed that Brian would have shot him. Stop bringing this up again and again and again when it's already been discussed. He fought back agaisnt someone, that someone shot him, we're discussing what the underlining reasons for this were, and Brian somehow being more dangerous than the other boys is not an issue.

I never said he was going to be shot, but it's rediculous to believe that hitting on other boys while dressed up as a slutty female isn't putting yourself in harms way. If that's not the last thing he should be doing around of heckling homophobes, I don't know what is.

I've said again and again and again that accusing the boy of being a homophobe is useless because we do not know about the boy's upbringing, but we do know that schools are not very welcoming to homosexuality or anything outside of gender norms, which i've already stated is a reflection of the attitude the older generation still gives off. The arguments so far that we should just accept that schools are like this, because somehow hatred towards homosexuals or gender ambiguity is natural for children, is contestable, and does not even try to explain itself. "This is how children naturally behave". Oh really? How about you explain why that is how they naturally behave, i've exposed why i believe it's not, yet i've not seen anyone else explain how this is natural to kids while arguing agaisnt the idea that it is learned.

How the hell could you not be able to make assumptions based on the boys "upbringing", yet you continue to attack the school and social systems? NEWSFLASH! A child's schooling is also a part of his "upbringing." Children spend just as much amount of time at school as they do at home. You can't just choose to look at one without taking the other into account. You're simply not making sense here.

[Kuya]

So going to school with saggy pants is wrong, but wearing make-up, high heels, and jewelry is merely "expressing your individuality?"

Saggy pants are only "wrong" if they're agaisnt some sort of written rules. You have no perspective if you compare saggy pants to a boy wearing make-up and high heels. Also, we are well aware that men use jewelry now to, right?

How the hell could you not be able to make assumptions based on the boys "upbringing", yet you continue to attack the school and social systems? NEWSFLASH! A child's schooling is also a part of his "upbringing." Children spend just as much amount of time at school as they do at home. You can't just choose to look at one without taking the other into account. You're simply not making sense here.

Social systems include EVERYTHING in a society. The school, the church, the government, the family unit, etc. When i mention the upbringing, i specificaly refer to the parents, who have been implicated by some in this thread, so i don't even know why you just agreed with me here, with the inclusion of the school, seeing as how it's also a social system and therefore plays its role in cementing the ideas of gender roles, and homphobia. Ideas of gender roles and homphobia that have led to this, whether the school does so knowingly or not.

[Beckwin]

So going to school with saggy pants is wrong, but wearing make-up, high heels, and jewelry is merely "expressing your individuality?"

What the fuck? This is such a silly argument lol.

What's silly is you trying to make arguments that aren't there, and bad ones at that. If there had been a dress code there would've been no problem with King having to follow it; however even if he did break it that's not grounds for even the remotest possibility for him to be shot- it'd simply be grounds for appropriate punishment by school administrators. Saggy pants and dress codes have nothing to do with this.

[Deejay]

If there had been a dress code there would've been no problem with King having to follow it; however even if he did break it that's not grounds for even the remotest possibility for him to be shot- it'd simply be grounds for appropriate punishment by school administrators.

No one is saying the boy deserved to be shot.
No one is saying the boy got was was coming to him.
No one is trying to imply that the negative repercussions of his actions were his fault.
No one is attempting to blame Larry for standing up for himself.

No one is justifying what the retarded little boys did. Theres not point in even discussing this topic if you guys continue to put words in our mouths.

The only thing we're trying to say is that the boy should have had a little more foresight when dealing with oppressive middle school kids. Theres a time and place to be hitting on other boys while dressed up as a female... do you really think his actions were warranted? Do you really feel that the decision he made helped the situation... like, at all? There are ways to deal with middle school bullies that don't involve provoking them physically. You're so quick to play the victim card when the boy obviously knew that he was only angering the stupid kids more. It may work sometimes, but the risk/reward is so rediculously low in this scenario. You never know how little kids can get, especially with a hot topic like homosexuality at that age.

The boy had every right to dress the way he wanted, but when he does it at school, in front of other boys, and then hits on them when they call him out on it? (In a christian society no less, where homosexuality is still widely considered a sin?) Come on now. I would never advise anyone that I cared about to provoke their homophobic bullies by hitting on them in womens clothing. It's great that he wanted to stand up for himself but there are other ways to do it that don't involve giving the bullies more incentive to want to bash your face in.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Deejay: Since when were middle school kids reasonable? Seriously, wtf are you expecting. The point shouldn't be to say that what he did was unreasonable, we're supposed to have an environment where being unreasonable doesn't get you killed.

[Beckwin]

No one is trying to imply that the negative repercussions of his actions were his fault.
No one is attempting to blame Larry for standing up for himself.

the boy should have had a little more foresight when dealing with oppressive middle school kids. Theres a time and place to be hitting on other boys while dressed up as a female... do you really think his actions were warranted? Do you really feel that the decision he made helped the situation... like, at all?

does. not. compute.

and again, hitting on homophobes is brilliant. The thing is that Larry has probably gotten roughed up more than a couple times regardless of him standing up for himself, so if he was still ok with that possible consequence of standing up for himself, then he didn't really exercise poor judgment at all. Only in extremely ridiculously rare situations will continuing to stand up to bullies get you executed in your classroom- as in this is just about the only situation that it's happened.

[Deejay]

Deejay: Since when were middle school kids reasonable? Seriously, wtf are you expecting. The point shouldn't be to say that what he did was unreasonable, we're supposed to have an environment where being unreasonable doesn't get you killed.

I agree. It's not his fault that our society is still against homosexuality. But you have to take into account that this is the world we live in. If you want to make changes then be my guest! There are just right and wrong ways to bring about said changes, and I think Larry chose the wrong way. Does that mean we shouldn't value his life and courage to stand up to his bullies? No. No one is saying Larry lacked character, we're saying he lacked proper judgment if he was at all concerned with his personal welfare.

In the end, his death will obviously bring about changes in our society and how we educate our children with tolerance. Unfortunately, it usually takes a rare catastrophe like this for people to open their eyes on these types of matters.

[Doofus]

I'm not sure if the OP just made a mistake or was trying to be funny but everywhere ive seen has called the kid lawrence king.

And deejay, you complacency about homophobia and willingness to accept it as how the world works astounds me, carry on.

[archibaldcrane]

Look, the only reason that Larry "dealt with this the wrong way" is because he happened to be dealing with the one bully in a million that would kill him. End of story.

In every other situation that doesn't involve his own murder (including ones where he gets beat up for it), his assertive manner of dealing with his bully is brilliant. He got extremely unlucky, but his actions weren't wrong just because got so unlucky that he picked a psycho who overreacted in the most extreme sense.

[Beckwin]

Look, the only reason that Larry "dealt with this the wrong way" is because he happened to be dealing with the one bully in a million that would kill him. End of story.

In every other situation that doesn't involve his own murder (including ones where he gets beat up for it), his assertive manner of dealing with his bully is brilliant. He got extremely unlucky, but his actions weren't wrong just because got so unlucky that he picked a psycho who overreacted in the most extreme sense.

Final word for the whole "did he do anything wrong" argument.

[Remyo]

I'm not sure if the OP just made a mistake or was trying to be funny but everywhere ive seen has called the kid lawrence king.

guess what is the nickname for people named lawrence.