15 year old gay kid, killed

[Cyn]

So again, what happened to good old fashioned snitching? When I was in school it actually worked more often that not. Usually a bully would make fun of you one more time for telling on him, but drop it after that, due to fear of being punished.

And yeah, it really is hard to have formed your own opinions on things like that at a young age. I was brought up as a child to hate homosexuality, that it was a mental disease, and that God will destroy America if we let it become accepted. I actually believed all that shit until I was like 16, at which point I stopped listening to my parents and started listening to my heart, and knew that hating anyone for their lifestyle choices in the name of God was the real sin. As I've gotten older I've become more and more secure in my choices (and I'm definitely no longer christian), but back then it was much much harder to see the truth through the constant barrage of anti-gay propaganda.

[Plow]

Ok seriously, I haven't read every post but some of you people watch way too much t.v.


People don't just up and shoot the gay guy right there at school. It's just not something that happens, it's not something you consider when you're making decisions on how to behave and how to live your life.

Really fucked up kids do really fucked up things, there's no accounting for who's going to be the next unabomber, the next MLK jr, or the next crazy ass kid to shoot somebody in school.




What a lot of people are implying here is basically that it's like Firas's stance on the cartoon thing, this is America and you don't have to live your life according to what the general public thinks you should, and people should seriously go fuck themselves for even beginning to imply that he should just conform in order to avoid the violence and hatred of worthless assholes.

[archibaldcrane]

Read you should learn to.

isn't not acting out of respect, it's not acting out of fear. I'm not mistaking one for the other.

Is not not acting out of respect = acting out of respect
it's not acting out of fear

how is that a rebuttal? Help me learn oh great and tolerant archibald.

Try replacing "not acting" with "failing to act", since that's what I meant. In this case, "isn't not" isn't a double-negative. Wrap your mind around that word-magic We're referring to, in this instance, not retaliatorily flirting with a bully to get back at him.

So here: Failing to retaliate against a bully because he might be batshit crazy isn't failing to retaliate because of respect, it's failing to retaliate because of fear. I'm not confusing respect with fear, and you are advocating fear of the possibility of bat-shit insanity.

However, this entire argument on both of our sides may be a massive derail unless we know that the kid that shot him was actually a bully, not just some random kid that Larry liked and expressed as such.

[Remyo]

Read you should learn to.

isn't not acting out of respect, it's not acting out of fear. I'm not mistaking one for the other.

Is not not acting out of respect = acting out of respect
it's not acting out of fear

how is that a rebuttal? Help me learn oh great and tolerant archibald.

Try replacing "not acting" with "failing to act", since that's what I meant. In this case, "isn't not" isn't a double-negative. Wrap your mind around that word-magic We're referring to, in this instance, not retaliatorily flirting with a bully to get back at him.

So here: Failing to retaliate against a bully because he might be batshit crazy isn't failing to retaliate because of respect, it's failing to retaliate because of fear. I'm not confusing respect with fear, and you are advocating fear of the possibility of bat-shit insanity.

However, this entire argument on both of our sides may be a massive derail unless we know that the kid that shot him was actually a bully, not just some random kid that Larry liked and expressed as such.

the right amount of fear can save lives.

[Lexa]

Read you should learn to.

isn't not acting out of respect, it's not acting out of fear. I'm not mistaking one for the other.

Is not not acting out of respect = acting out of respect
it's not acting out of fear

how is that a rebuttal? Help me learn oh great and tolerant archibald.

Try replacing "not acting" with "failing to act", since that's what I meant. In this case, "isn't not" isn't a double-negative. Wrap your mind around that word-magic We're referring to, in this instance, not retaliatorily flirting with a bully to get back at him.

So here: Failing to retaliate against a bully because he might be batshit crazy isn't failing to retaliate because of respect, it's failing to retaliate because of fear. I'm not confusing respect with fear, and you are advocating fear of the possibility of bat-shit insanity.

However, this entire argument on both of our sides may be a massive derail unless we know that the kid that shot him was actually a bully, not just some random kid that Larry liked and expressed as such.

the right amount of fear can save lives.

You're a pathetic troll.

[archibaldcrane]

the right amount of fear can save lives.

Is the problem that the kid wasn't afraid enough, or that he had a reason to be afraid?

[Remyo]

Read you should learn to.

isn't not acting out of respect, it's not acting out of fear. I'm not mistaking one for the other.

Is not not acting out of respect = acting out of respect
it's not acting out of fear

how is that a rebuttal? Help me learn oh great and tolerant archibald.

Try replacing "not acting" with "failing to act", since that's what I meant. In this case, "isn't not" isn't a double-negative. Wrap your mind around that word-magic We're referring to, in this instance, not retaliatorily flirting with a bully to get back at him.

So here: Failing to retaliate against a bully because he might be batshit crazy isn't failing to retaliate because of respect, it's failing to retaliate because of fear. I'm not confusing respect with fear, and you are advocating fear of the possibility of bat-shit insanity.

However, this entire argument on both of our sides may be a massive derail unless we know that the kid that shot him was actually a bully, not just some random kid that Larry liked and expressed as such.

the right amount of fear can save lives.

You're a pathetic troll.

I'm serious, there is a difference in being courageous and being a moron.

Is the problem that the kid wasn't afraid enough, or that he had a reason to be afraid?

I'm not advocating being a coward, but you are advocating waking the beast. people need to learn to demonstrate some control or the retaliations on both sides tend to lead escalation.

[BIGSTIC]

Just saw this on TV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUsEgG5musk

It was released 2 weeks ago. I am so behind the times up in hickville Montana

[Stumblingdrunk]

The point is that people are attacking other people in this thread who are just as outraged over what happened, just because they feel that the boy was wrong to purposely antagonize the other boy.

No, you're missing the point, that point being you can't post one sentence stating that larry did not deserve this followed by a paragraph or two about how he brought it on himself. You and some others are contradicting yourselves over and over and over again.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm not advocating being a coward, but you are advocating waking the beast. people need to learn to demonstrate some control or the retaliations on both sides tend to lead escalation.

The person who needs to demonstrate control is the one who reaches for a gun.

And again, we don't even know if the kid who shot Larry is a bully.

[Cyn]

The point is that people are attacking other people in this thread who are just as outraged over what happened, just because they feel that the boy was wrong to purposely antagonize the other boy.

No, you're missing the point, that point being you can't post one sentence stating that larry did not deserve this followed by a paragraph or two about how he brought it on himself. You and some others are contradicting yourselves over and over and over again.

No, in no way am I contradicting myself. And in no way am I saying that he brought it on himself. I'm simply saying that a lot of people made a lot of mistakes leading up to this. I mean what are you even getting at, that the only right thing to do if someone picks on you is get revenge? The school, both boys, very likely the parents, and god knows who or what else played a role in this being escalated to this point.

But I will say this, it's just as wrong to sexually harass a member of the same sex as it is someone of the other sex. Both the bully and Larry were wrong. This argument isn't even really about him being shot, stop pointing it out, yes, we all know he got shot. Yes, we all feel that he didn't deserve it. This is more about discussing what apparently led up to it, and at least in my case, trying to figure out why the boy would have reacted so strongly to something that most of us would laugh about.

I think that the idea to add the tolerance education or w/e it's called to the school systems curriculum is a great idea, and I fervently hope that it will help prevent something like this from happening again.

[Doofus]

Ok seriously, I haven't read every post but some of you people watch way too much t.v.


People don't just up and shoot the gay guy right there at school. It's just not something that happens, it's not something you consider when you're making decisions on how to behave and how to live your life.

Really fucked up kids do really fucked up things, there's no accounting for who's going to be the next unabomber, the next MLK jr, or the next crazy ass kid to shoot somebody in school.




What a lot of people are implying here is basically that it's like Firas's stance on the cartoon thing, this is America and you don't have to live your life according to what the general public thinks you should, and people should seriously go fuck themselves for even beginning to imply that he should just conform in order to avoid the violence and hatred of worthless assholes.

Its not often i read something plow says and don't want to bash my head in but this is one of those times ._.; I agree with what he says here.

[Remyo]

I'm not advocating being a coward, but you are advocating waking the beast. people need to learn to demonstrate some control or the retaliations on both sides tend to lead escalation.

The person who needs to demonstrate control is the one who reaches for a gun.

And again, we don't even know if the kid who shot Larry is a bully.

I agree thats why I posted both sides. So if the kid that shot him wasn't a bully that makes Larry the bully?

[Beckwin]

I'm not advocating being a coward, but you are advocating waking the beast. people need to learn to demonstrate some control or the retaliations on both sides tend to lead escalation.

The person who needs to demonstrate control is the one who reaches for a gun.

And again, we don't even know if the kid who shot Larry is a bully.

I agree thats why I posted both sides. So if the kid that shot him wasn't a bully that makes Larry the bully?

Asking someone to be your valentine makes you a bully?

[Stumblingdrunk]

I'm not advocating being a coward, but you are advocating waking the beast. people need to learn to demonstrate some control or the retaliations on both sides tend to lead escalation.

The person who needs to demonstrate control is the one who reaches for a gun.

And again, we don't even know if the kid who shot Larry is a bully.

I agree thats why I posted both sides. So if the kid that shot him wasn't a bully that makes Larry the bully?

asking a kid to be your valentine = bullying now?

Edit: damn you beckwin

[archibaldcrane]

I blame Valentine's day, if they hadn't created this consumerist holiday for self-expression of love, none of this would've happened. Expressing your feelings is way too dangerous in a school setting, some people are bat-shit insane remember.

[Remyo]

It can, He is bullying the hetero by forcing his sexual orientation on him.

[Plow]

It can, He is bullying the hetero by forcing his sexual orientation on him.

So if I (male) ask a woman on a date am I bullying her by forcing my sexual orientation on her?



Or perhaps that's just straight up rape like that livejournal would say.

[Mizango]

Thats right! Nothing conveys the message of "No thanks, I'm straight" quite like grabbing a gun and splattering Grey matter all over your clothes. i mean, who talks anymore pfft.

Punching him in the face was their way of forcing their sexual orientation on him as well though seriously was it not? All he did was respond, the flirt wasn't a provocation it was a response to distress.

[Insert Guartz stress quote here]

Edit: Plow beat me to it

[Tyche]

The point is that people are attacking other people in this thread who are just as outraged over what happened, just because they feel that the boy was wrong to purposely antagonize the other boy.

No, you're missing the point, that point being you can't post one sentence stating that larry did not deserve this followed by a paragraph or two about how he brought it on himself. You and some others are contradicting yourselves over and over and over again.

So I was saving my 3000th post for something more important than silly arguing, but telling you that you are a fucking idiot will suffice. You are so fucking ignorant and blinded by the kid being gay, that you cannot read coherently. What I have said, and I'm sure others have meant is that this could have been prevented, not that he brought it on himself. It's been repeated over and over and over that noone deserved it, but it could have been avoided if one person in any of the parties could have been a little more mature. Carry on with your selective reading and picking out individual points to place it in your argument at will, most can see right through the idiocy.

@Beckwin
You are smarter than you are giving yourself credit for. While it may have been some form of "innocently" asking the kid to be his valentine, I seriously doubt it. The story alludes to the kid repeatedly flirting with others who bully him. Yes, that's a form of bullying if you look at the intent. He's just trying to harass other guys. They were both bullying, one because he was immature, jerk, asshole, fill in the blank. The other was bullying in retaliation.

Edit: Woot, deleted a useless post, back to 2999