15 year old gay kid, killed

[Deejay]

I just think it's silly for you to get mad that we're discussing all parts of the attack. As if we're "trying to take attention off the REAL issue."

Calm down lol.

[Infiltrator]

What part of those statements are inconsistent? In the instance where Larry was attacked, any other type of weapon may not have resulted in death because it's hard for a 14 year old who isn't particularly skilled with a knife to kill in the time it takes to pull it out and squeeze a trigger.

How many of the thousands of people killed with edged weapons were killed by perpetrators who are skilled at using a knife? It doesn't take any skill to slash and stab.

Larry's death may have been preventable had the weapon just been a kitchen knife.

You can't just run up to a 14 year old while he's pointing a gun because all he has to do is shoot it, and people die. However, you can stop an attacker while he's holding a knife at someone.

We don't know the exact details of what happen. Assuming they even had the time to react to any sort of attack and assuming they would automatically intervene defend another student while risking injury to themselves is just conjecture.

There is a widely known phenomenon called Genovese Syndrome. Cases of victims being attacked by an assailants while onlookers do nothing.

[Norelco]

There is a widely known phenomenon called Genovese Syndrome. Cases of victims being attacked by an assailants while onlookers do nothing.

Also known as "Just stand there with my thumb up my ass" syndrome and "I don't want to get attacked like that other dude, so I'll just stand here and watch" syndrome.

[Plow]

What part of those statements are inconsistent? In the instance where Larry was attacked, any other type of weapon may not have resulted in death because it's hard for a 14 year old who isn't particularly skilled with a knife to kill in the time it takes to pull it out and squeeze a trigger.

How many of the thousands of people killed with edged weapons were killed by perpetrators who are skilled at using a knife? It doesn't take any skill to slash and stab.

Have you ever seen a knife murder? Did you see the pictures of OJ Simpson with his arms all torn to shreds from the massive struggle with... his little wife and some waiter guy that wasn't much bigger? And OJ is a very big, strong (crazy) guy. Or that infamous video posted recently, I didn't watch it but from the descriptions there were 2 guys going directly at a restrained target's neck with a bigass knife and it still took considerable time and effort to kill him.


Arguing that it's just as easy to kill someone with a knife as a gun isn't going to get anywhere, it's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[Remyo]

Arguing that it's just as easy to kill someone with a knife as a gun isn't going to get anywhere, it's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

just like a wop.

[Ryko]

No, that's bringing a level 1 aegis to a gunfight.

(Yes I know you meant the italian slur)

[Beckwin]

If the school is prone to weapon violence and other similar problems, then yes security measures are needed.

Regarding the gun, bottom line is that if that weapon wasn't so easily available, Larry's chances for living through that day go up. In the time that Larry's life was ended, I'd find it hard for a 14 year old to end it as quickly and absolutely with a knife or blunt object in the middle of a computer classroom. I'm sure the BG Solid Snakes will tell me otherwise (man I miss Devek and his dog+shotgun home defense spiels), but fuck it w/e. There's also definitely something to say about a 14 year old getting pissed about being hit on one day and the very next day having a handgun to murder his would-be courtier the next- if you don't agree with gun control that's fine, but don't fucking ignore that. There's also something to be said about third-party intervention when an assailant has a gun versus pretty much anything else. When a child executes another child in the middle of class, you can't ignore the gun. Sorry.

I won't say anymore about gun control in this topic after this (I mean it srysly, besides we had the gun debate a week ago): with proper legislation backed up by significant enforcement, I believe handgun violence can be reduced- not eliminated in the "magic and rainbows" way Archibald is insinuating. Does anyone really not think that cocaine and heroin use would be higher were it legal? Of course not. Because it's illegal and because there's significant effort put into fighting it, use is down from a 'normal' level. But as I said when I first mentioned handgun ban, that's another topic entirely.



P.S. Kuya: I deliberately waited 10?+ pages to bring up guns, because the greater societal issue indeed is homophobia/masculinity. That kinda got to dead horse status in some ways though. Strutting with mod-peen because you still wanted to talk about that was frankly annoying, but I appreciate you letting it go in the end. Thanks.

[archibaldcrane]

With proper legislation backed up by significant enforcement, I believe handgun violence can be reduced- not eliminated in the "magic and rainbows" way Archibald is insinuating.

My point was I think that the bounds of gun control laws is stretched just about as far as it goes before the Supreme Court holds up the Constitution and says 'sorry guys'. Enforcement is a whole other thing, but I don't know what is going to keep this murderer's shitty irresponsible parents from ...not being shitty and irresponsible. (Also we still don't know where he got the gun from.)

[Beckwin]

You're right, we still don't know where he got the gun from. We're doing a lot of speculation in this topic. However the report you posted does increase the odds of it being from the home. I honestly have no idea how a 14 year old could get a gun other than from some gang-related entity if not from his or a friend's home. Especially in a day's time.

[archibaldcrane]

You're right, we still don't know where he got the gun from. We're doing a lot of speculation in this topic. However the report you posted does increase the odds of it being from the home. I honestly have no idea how a 14 year old could get a gun other than from some gang-related entity if not from his or a friend's home. Especially in a day's time.

Oxnard is kinda shitty, lol. Good strawberries though.

[Infiltrator]

Have you ever seen a knife murder? Did you see the pictures of OJ Simpson with his arms all torn to shreds from the massive struggle with... his little wife and some waiter guy that wasn't much bigger? And OJ is a very big, strong (crazy) guy.

Yes I have, I've worked homicide scenes before where a edged weapon was used.

Or that infamous video posted recently, I didn't watch it but from the descriptions there were 2 guys going directly at a restrained target's neck with a bigass knife and it still took considerable time and effort to kill him.

It didn't take effort to kill that guy, it took effort to attempt to saw his head off. The second his jugular was severed, he was a goner. Had they stopped cutting and left him there, he would have died regardless. Just because he struggled and the killers continued to "saw" at his throat doesn't negate the fact that the wound is fatal. In fact most gunshot victims die of blood loss at the scene or at the hospital.

[Beckwin]

Yeah, I couldn't really find a whole lot about the town. 200k people in city proper 800k metro, pretty normal racial distribution for that region, agriculture, somewhere between LA and SF (closer to the former?). I had never heard of it when I lived in CA, but that was 8 years ago. Couldn't really find anything about poverty/crime but I haven't looked too hard yet.

But seriously, assuming for a minute that it's not from a familiar household, how does a 14 year old get a handgun overnight? I had a friend in jr. high who was expelled for bringing a gun to school (this was in SD), but I never found out where he got it though. nickel-plated 45 or some shit, poor kid was scared for his life from when he got off the bus stop for whatever reason (was a VEEP student, so he was getting dropped off in the ghetto basically).

[Infiltrator]

Regarding the gun, bottom line is that if that weapon wasn't so easily available, Larry's chances for living through that day go up.

This wasn't crime committed on impulse. It was cold and calculated execution. That's what you don't seem to understand about premeditation. He wanted the gay student dead and he was more then willing to follow thorough with his plan by the fact that he walked up to another student and shot him twice in the head.

In the time that Larry's life was ended, I'd find it hard for a 14 year old to end it as quickly and absolutely with a knife or blunt object in the middle of a computer classroom. I'm sure the BG Solid Snakes will tell me otherwise (man I miss Devek and his dog+shotgun home defense spiels), but fuck it w/e.

http://www.wreg.com/global/story.asp?s=6461015

The human body isn't exactly the toughest thing in this world.

There's also definitely something to say about a 14 year old getting pissed about being hit on one day and the very next day having a handgun to murder his would-be courtier the next- if you don't agree with gun control that's fine, but don't fucking ignore that.

So I guess it's OK to have your head smashed in or your jugular cut or have your lungs collapse from being punctured with a sharp object. Just as long as it's not a gun. And what gun control laws would have stopped this? How many firearm laws did Klebold and Harris broke during their rampage? (I think like 19) I suppose adding another one would have changed the outcome.

But I guess dealing with the real issue of society who turns out these little monsters is harder, so lets put a band-aid on it and blame inanimate objects.

There's also something to be said about third-party intervention when an assailant has a gun versus pretty much anything else.

Are you expecting adolescent teens to intervene in this kind of situation regardless of whether they are armed or not when adults themselves show that kind of apathy?

When a child executes another child in the middle of class, you can't ignore the gun. Sorry.

sure, maybe if the gun floated up, loaded it's own magazine, cocked itself and took aim and killed the gay student.

But putting a band-aid on social problems is a lot easier then dealing with with the real issue. Issues like what in the world would give an adolescent teen the idea that it's OK to shoot someone?

I won't say anymore about gun control in this topic after this (I mean it srysly, besides we had the gun debate a week ago):

No we didn't actually. It was about police policy regarding deadly force and the idiots who would make laws to impose superhuman standards on officers and punish them for not meeting it.

with proper legislation backed up by significant enforcement, I believe handgun violence can be reduced- not eliminated in the "magic and rainbows" way Archibald is insinuating. Does anyone really not think that cocaine and heroin use would be higher were it legal? Of course not. Because it's illegal and because there's significant effort put into fighting it, use is down from a 'normal' level. But as I said when I first mentioned handgun ban, that's another topic entirely.

How many laws are on the books now that aren't being enforced? I see these gun control laws and they're almost always being promoted by slimy politicians who don't know jack shit about what's going on. I've been in law enforcement for awhile and I can tell you now that race and your choice of lifestyle has more to do with how likely you are to be a killed with a firearm then any other factor. This "problem" seems to not happen at all in suburbia and rural areas where gun ownership is traditionally high. The illegal narcotic black market and gun violence goes hand in hand.

[Faris]

Things that are debatable in this topic;

Gun control
Homosexuality
Parental guidance
School security/policies

I dont think its a derail, or even a big deal that people wish to speak about issue A and not B :\

I for one, think Gun control, parental guidance and school security/policies are the real issues here.
guns should be controlled, parents should pay more attention to their kids, and schools should also pay attention to the students and their discipline....being a homosexual or not, this is not the first time kids get shot in their classrooms in America. wearing dresses or not, that arguement is weak.

[Plow]

So I guess it's OK to have your head smashed in or your jugular cut or have your lungs collapse from being punctured with a sharp object. Just as long as it's not a gun.

It's pretty simple, really.

Would you rather have someone attack you with a blunt object or a knife, or shoot you in the back of the head?

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

So firas, does your country have homosexuals or do you have none like Iran?

[Doofus]

So firas, does your country have homosexuals or do you have none like Iran?

Doesn't france not have any either? I think I heard that somewhere.

[Foustian]

So I guess it's OK to have your head smashed in or your jugular cut or have your lungs collapse from being punctured with a sharp object. Just as long as it's not a gun.

It's pretty simple, really.

Would you rather have someone attack you with a blunt object or a knife, or shoot you in the back of the head?

I'd rather be attacked from the front personally. Think about what you're saying. He was shot in the back of the head. Implying King didn't know the guy was there. If you can't at least seriously injure someone with a blunt object or knife when they don't know you're there, you're probably not fully intending to kill them. Its not hard to stab someone in the back of the neck or swing a wrench or whatever blunt object you may have at their head hard enough to knock them unconscious.

[Tricen]

So firas, does your country have homosexuals or do you have none like Iran?

Doesn't france not have any either? I think I heard that somewhere.

What are you talking about? France is where the homosexuals migrated to the USA during the great cucumber famine.

[Cyn]

So I guess it's OK to have your head smashed in or your jugular cut or have your lungs collapse from being punctured with a sharp object. Just as long as it's not a gun.

It's pretty simple, really.

Would you rather have someone attack you with a blunt object or a knife, or shoot you in the back of the head?

I'd rather have them understand and accept my lifestyle choices.