15 year old gay kid, killed

[Maguspk]

Exactly, it's just a horrible way to go about any situation. You should just embrace who you are and not try to be something you aren't. Dressing in high heels and wearing makeup is not what any male in our society does, I don't care how much of an individual you claim to be, you aren't doing that because it feels natural you're doing it because you're confused. Besides, by adhering to these gender roles we have in society you're only reinforcing all the negative gender ranking that goes on and limiting any progress you might want to achieve. Just because you found out you're gay doesn't mean you've got to act flamboyant and reinvent yourself with opposite sex characteristics; it means you are attracted to the same sex, that's it.

I bet he wasn't even really gay, he probably just loved attention he got and was using the form of dress to evoke new emotions from his interactions. I find it hard to believe any reasonable middle schooler would do this without some sort of ulterior motive. Middle School is about the point in time when you realize, "Hey, what I do affects my social rank and I need to be fucking aware of that and not act stupid as hell unless there's a reason for it."

You make the assumption that no man would want to act that way, seeing as how you can argue that women are just as confused for using makeup/heels, since it's not natural for them either. Not to mention you also make assumptions that perhaps he wasn't in fact efeminate, just the same as a heterosexual can be efeminate but not homosexual. You then make the assumption that he wasn't gay, and i already mentioned why this type of behaviour can be positive. I don't think you agree with me at all.

It isn't natural to want to wear high heels and makeup for women either, but the divide is in how we're socialized. Women are socialized to like that sort of thing, hence why I said he's not doing it naturally he's doing it because he's confused. He is a male, he isn't going to be socialized to like those things unless somewhere along the way he was confused or chose to do it. I don't know any male in our society who gets the idea wearing heels is what "guys do".

I never made an assumption he "wasn't effeminate" I simply said, being gay doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with it.

[Khamsin]

I'd shoot Larry King too. I can't stand that dude

Beat me to it. I was going to say "THEE Larry King got killed!?"

Which brings to mind... why wasn't the topic called: "Larry King shot and killed"?!

He wasn't bullied to death, the kid was shot because he told the same teenager who shot him that he liked him.

How is that not being bullied to death? He was killed by a bully for being gay, regardless of what he said to that bully.

I must be old fashioned. I think of things like wedgies, name calling, or stealing lunch money as bullying. When did school shootings get added to the list?

[Yuri-G]

@magus: If that's your definition of confused, nearly every person I know is confused in one way or another, and the very few people who aren't are god-awfully boring.

@Khamsin: That's what most bullying is, but I see this as an extension - a very violent one - of that kind of stuff. Seems we have different definitions of how far bullying goes.

[Kaylia]

Koga, I dont think anyone here is arguing about the murder part. Everyone agree it's not right (I hope).

[Koga]

The thing that gets me the most is the fact that this will probably get buried under the carpet, the kid will walk off almost scott-free because of the fact that he is a minor and will use this exact argument in that "He was confused and didn't realize the repercussions of his actions."

EDIT>> When the dust settles that is.

[Priran]

Once you've fapped to a trap you can never go back. Even if you kill him.

[Kuya]

Exactly, it's just a horrible way to go about any situation. You should just embrace who you are and not try to be something you aren't. Dressing in high heels and wearing makeup is not what any male in our society does, I don't care how much of an individual you claim to be, you aren't doing that because it feels natural you're doing it because you're confused. Besides, by adhering to these gender roles we have in society you're only reinforcing all the negative gender ranking that goes on and limiting any progress you might want to achieve. Just because you found out you're gay doesn't mean you've got to act flamboyant and reinvent yourself with opposite sex characteristics; it means you are attracted to the same sex, that's it.

I bet he wasn't even really gay, he probably just loved attention he got and was using the form of dress to evoke new emotions from his interactions. I find it hard to believe any reasonable middle schooler would do this without some sort of ulterior motive. Middle School is about the point in time when you realize, "Hey, what I do affects my social rank and I need to be fucking aware of that and not act stupid as hell unless there's a reason for it."

You make the assumption that no man would want to act that way, seeing as how you can argue that women are just as confused for using makeup/heels, since it's not natural for them either. Not to mention you also make assumptions that perhaps he wasn't in fact efeminate, just the same as a heterosexual can be efeminate but not homosexual. You then make the assumption that he wasn't gay, and i already mentioned why this type of behaviour can be positive. I don't think you agree with me at all.

It isn't natural to want to wear high heels and makeup for women either, but the divide is in how we're socialized. Women are socialized to like that sort of thing, hence why I said he's not doing it naturally he's doing it because he's confused. He is a male, he isn't going to be socialized to like those things unless somewhere along the way he was confused or chose to do it. I don't know any male in our society who gets the idea wearing heels is what "guys do".

I never made an assumption he "wasn't effeminate" I simply said, being gay doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with it.

Then confused wouldn't be the right word here, uncomplacent or whatever you call a homosexual who adopts the efeminite things because he thinks that that is what he's supossed to do. Regardless, if gender is arbitrary, then there is no point in saying he should act one way or another, whether he decides to act like a "man" or like a "women" by our definition it's absolutely his right.

[Chips]

This case sorta reminds me of a homosexual student at my old high school. We had to wear uniforms, however, on dress-down days he'd come to school in a very "gay" outfit. We understood that he was gay, but he would always make comments about how he was gay, and everyone should know it. Purposely talking very loudly in class about how he had a big gangbang with lots of guys the night before, in gym class (while we were changing), he'd make comments like "this is my faaaaavorite part of gym!", or purposely hit on and flirt with guys he knew it bothered them. Okay, we know, you're gay, we get it.

This is something that really bothers me about people that flaunt their orientations. I'm all for having gay people, but if you know that what you're doing bothers certain people, why purposely and persistently do so? You're obviously going to make enemies at that age, and some people (like the kid that shot Larry) are going to take things too far. From reading the excepts posted by Kuya, I get the impression Larry was this kind of person. Obviously he didn't deserve what happened to him (nothing should have happened to him), but if you knowingly bother teenage males regarding their sexual orientation, something is eventually going to happen.

[Akiyama]

The thing that gets me the most is the fact that this will probably get buried under the carpet, the kid will walk off almost scott-free because of the fact that he is a minor and will use this exact argument in that "He was confused and didn't realize the repercussions of his actions."

EDIT>> When the dust settles that is.

Not sure how someone can't see the repercussions of their actions after they shoot someone in the back of their head.. D:

This is a sad story, and just goes to show how today's society is going wacko.

[Jefe]

stuff

Whoo hooo! It appears I stumbled upon one of those fools/e-thugs who always wants to say the last word in order to satisfy some demented internal desire. Are you trying to overcompensate for something? I bet you feel like a manly man now? What's more self-gratifying than arguing with a faceless entity to "prove" a point most don't give a shit about? /slow clap. Keep telling yourself "you are the man dawg," thanks to your posts I will be losing much needed sleep for a fortnight.

Do you know why I reply to your posts? Because I'm bored, and helps me kill time. Furthermore, I hope you keep your word and don't reply to my post. Or are you going to be one of those fagots and break your word? Good, have a nice day, kind sir :rocl:

/rerail The kid's death was a terrible one.

[Maguspk]

Exactly, it's just a horrible way to go about any situation. You should just embrace who you are and not try to be something you aren't. Dressing in high heels and wearing makeup is not what any male in our society does, I don't care how much of an individual you claim to be, you aren't doing that because it feels natural you're doing it because you're confused. Besides, by adhering to these gender roles we have in society you're only reinforcing all the negative gender ranking that goes on and limiting any progress you might want to achieve. Just because you found out you're gay doesn't mean you've got to act flamboyant and reinvent yourself with opposite sex characteristics; it means you are attracted to the same sex, that's it.

I bet he wasn't even really gay, he probably just loved attention he got and was using the form of dress to evoke new emotions from his interactions. I find it hard to believe any reasonable middle schooler would do this without some sort of ulterior motive. Middle School is about the point in time when you realize, "Hey, what I do affects my social rank and I need to be fucking aware of that and not act stupid as hell unless there's a reason for it."

You make the assumption that no man would want to act that way, seeing as how you can argue that women are just as confused for using makeup/heels, since it's not natural for them either. Not to mention you also make assumptions that perhaps he wasn't in fact efeminate, just the same as a heterosexual can be efeminate but not homosexual. You then make the assumption that he wasn't gay, and i already mentioned why this type of behaviour can be positive. I don't think you agree with me at all.

It isn't natural to want to wear high heels and makeup for women either, but the divide is in how we're socialized. Women are socialized to like that sort of thing, hence why I said he's not doing it naturally he's doing it because he's confused. He is a male, he isn't going to be socialized to like those things unless somewhere along the way he was confused or chose to do it. I don't know any male in our society who gets the idea wearing heels is what "guys do".

I never made an assumption he "wasn't effeminate" I simply said, being gay doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with it.

Then confused wouldn't be the right word here, uncomplacent or whatever you call a homosexual who adopts the efeminite things because he thinks that that is what he's supossed to do. Regardless, if gender is arbitrary, then there is no point in saying he should act one way or another, whether he decides to act like a "man" or like a "women" by our definition it's absolutely his right.

I wasn't intending anyone to get from my discussion that him acting "feminine" was wrong, I was only discussing that I found it odd how a majority of the gay people I've met choose to take on these very similar roles. I know it could be due to a similarity in genetics but I refuse to believe all these gay men for example, just happen to also decide to talk with a lisp and act effeminate. It's annoying when they act a certain way just because of their sexual orientation, when it shouldn't be a factor in how they act. It should be, like you said, independant of gender, the way one acts.

I think it's much more complicated and yes, they're just "uncomplacent" I guess. I made the mistake of veering the discussion where it wasn't headed.

edit: I see what you meant when you said I was assuming he wasn't effeminate. In order for my statement about how a majority of gay men may take on traditionally female roles to be relevant, the boy in the article would have had to have done the same thing. But I didn't mean it that way, I was just using his obvious case as a basis for discussion.

[Yuri-G]

From experience, I think magus is right about at least one thing, a lot of the gay stereotype is affected. But that's nothing new or unique - look at any group of people who share a common bond and you're likely to see something like that. Gangbangers, rednecks, frat boys, whatever you like. People tend to take on the characteristics of the group they feel they fit into best. Of course, this does nothing to answer why the gay stereotype includes feminine aspects and a lisp and all that.

[archibaldcrane]

Also would people stop unloading their anger on the nearest object they see? The kid who shot him is at best another victim here.

Nope, sorry, not going for this. Fuck the kid that shot him.

Can you imagine how hard it would be to be gay and out in middle school? Clearly this kid, as it says in the article, was picked on constantly for his sexual orientation. Did he go emo and get quiet, become a punching dummy and try to stay out of everyone's way? No, and fuck that, why should he? He stood up to bullies the best way he could - attack them where they are weak - their fear and hatred of homosexuals. Bullies start it, this kid is fighting back.

Now I get it. This fear and hatred of homosexuals is a part of the murderers, and just about everyone else's upbringing when you are 13 years old. Everything is "gay", dudes kissing dudes is gross, etc. etc.

But do you know what else you fear and hate when you're 13? EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE NORMAL. And I'm not going to give carte blanche to kids uncomfortable about things that are abnormal to murder them and then pity the murderer. Dealing with the abnormal is one of the things that every middle-schooler needs to learn how to do, and a lot of that learning has to happen on your own. If you can't cut it? If you can't figure out how to deal with other people's "abnormalities", especially when you completely deserved it being "thrown in your face", and need to pick up a gun to defend your normality, guess what? Have fun in jail for a long time.

Preach tolerance and such in school and in home. They are good things. But you have to take the teaching, and at the point where you decide that a gun is the answer, and I don't really care how old you are, you become responsible for whatever you've learned at wherever you're at.

[Deejay]

stuff

Whoo hooo!

The dude said he doesn't have time for your shit. You can shut up now.

____

If Larry King would flirt with the boys who teased him, isn't that a form a sexual harassment? No one deserved to die, but I think it's fair to declare that both sides were at fault here.

[Maxxthepenguin]

stuff

Whoo hooo! It appears I stumbled upon one of those fools/e-thugs who always wants to say the last word in order to satisfy some demented internal desire. Are you trying to overcompensate for something?

Probably, I'm not sure what though yet.

I bet you feel like a manly man now What's more self-gratifying than arguing with a faceless entity to "prove" a point most don't give a shit about?

Wait, I was arguing?

/slow clap. Keep telling yourself "you are the man dawg," thanks to your posts I will be losing much needed sleep for a fortnight.

How long is a fortnight? I can't gauge my awesomeness when somebody uses units of measure I have to look up.

Do you know why I reply to your posts?

Yeah, I do

Because I'm bored, and helps me kill time.

I already knew that

Furthermore, I hope you keep your word and don't reply to my post. Or are you going to be one of those fagots and break your word? Good, have a nice day, kind sir :rocl:

I have no idea what word I'm breaking. Nywas? that's not a word. Fagot isn't either fyi

/rerail The kid's death was a terrible one.

Which is why we post that we should be thankful that we're rid of a homo.

[Akiyama]

stuff

Do you know why I reply to your posts? Because I'm bored, and helps me kill time. Furthermore, I hope you keep your word and don't reply to my post. Or are you going to be one of those fagots and break your word? Good, have a nice day, kind sir :rocl:

/rerail The kid's death was a terrible one.

Not to be cruel, but in the honor of what this thread is about, can't you at least spell "fagot" right? It's "faggot" with two g's. Jesus christ. You hurt my eyes enough. Do some spell-checking first if you can, please.

(I have nothing against gay people and I don't use the word faggot in that sense. I just felt it should at least be spelled correctly.)

[Kuya]

Nope, sorry, not going for this. Fuck the kid that shot him.
---snip---

No, you're not getting what i'm saying. I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, i just don't think he should be tried as an adult as i've already explained before. Not to mention he is basicaly just a scapegoat. And let me put it this way, this sacrifice is not sufficient. If i allow people to unload the blame solely on that kid, they will be ignoring the real problems, much like some are intent on focusing on how the kid should have acted normal as to not attract attention to himself and they inadvertively end up blaming the kid who got killed. That he get punished for murder is evident; that he be the focus of the outrage, no.

In the end, judging him as an adult solves nothing.

[Priran]

does maxx constantly research new ways to ruin threads or what?

[Khamsin]

Nope, sorry, not going for this. Fuck the kid that shot him.
---snip---

No, you're not getting what i'm saying. I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, i just don't think he should be tried as an adult as i've already explained before. Not to mention he is basicaly just a scapegoat. And let me put it this way, this sacrifice does not sufficient. If i allow people to unload the blame solely on that kid, they will be ignoring the real problems, much like some are intent on focusing on how the kid should have acted normal as to not attract attention to himself and they inadvertively end up blaming the kid who got killed. That he get punished for muder is evident; that he be the focus of the outrage, no.

Uh, a scapegoat that's dangerous and unstable enough to kill someone. No matter why he did it, unless it was for self defense, it means he cannot be trusted to make the reasonable and sane decision not to kill someone. So the only choice is to lock him up for good so we don't have to worry about it ever again.

[Maxxthepenguin]

does maxx constantly research new ways to ruin threads or what?

Don't give me that much credit. I just use the same few techniques over and over when I feel like it.