15 year old gay kid, killed

[Beckwin]

honestly hitting on homophobes is brilliant; it capitalizes on their latent insecurities and is probably the best way to strike a non-violent blow. that or saying you fucked his dad last night. you don't stand up to a bully by being nice to him (generally).

and to add on, you can get shot by any type of person these days, so why bother ever standing up for yourself or even just speaking your mind in public? really poor argument- "someone could shoot you!"

[Kuya]

at 15 he may not have known at all how serious someone would strike back to his standing up for himself.

also just about every book/tv show/movie etc you watch growing up teaches you to stand up for yourself.

I'm not saying he shouldn't stand up for himself. But come on now, in what world would it be cool to hit on an obviously homophobic person in attempt to get him to stop teasing you?

Like I was saying earlier, if Larry were my son I would have taught him when/where to pick such fights. Gays are murdered every day for simply 'looking' gay, (before reading this) would you think it's out of this world that he could be shot for hitting on a homophobic person?

I would just like to point out, that you're actually assuming that the kid who shot him was homophobic and that he learned it from his parents, when the article never aluded to any of that. You don't need to be homophobic, at least in terms of ideology to murder someone who is gay, especially considering that the environment in almost all schools seem to be to pick on the socially marginalized. He could have easily just shot him because he might have thought others might think he was gay to, which is what i concluded from the article, and if this situation is true, than Larry couldn't have known how or whether this other kid was homphobic or not.

[Deejay]

and to add on, you can get shot by any type of person these days, so why bother ever standing up for yourself or even just speaking your mind in public? really poor argument- "someone could shoot you!"

No shit you could get shot for any reason, but at the same rate that Gays are being shot these days? Seriously, I think you're really underestimating the amount of hate homophobes have for gay people, let alone the pressure that they receive their comrades when their manhood is in question.

[Beckwin]

And I wanna say that you're possibly overestimating how many gays are shot by homophobes.

[Doofus]

And I wanna say that you're possibly overestimating how many gays are shot by homophobes.

Seriously, i was about to quote him and ask him to preface any post he makes from now on with i plead ignorance. Where the hell do you get this shit deejay?

[Amastacia]

I really don't understand the perspective that the kid was doing anything wrong in flirting with his tormentors.

When someone bullies you, you either learn to submit or you learn to fight back somehow. When punches and kicks won't work (and are probably hella hard to do in heels anyway), you find another alternative. The kid decided not to lay down and take the abuse, and he found a defense that was brutally effective.

Kudos to the kid for having the balls to stand up to the jerks teasing him.

[Deejay]

at 15 he may not have known at all how serious someone would strike back to his standing up for himself.

also just about every book/tv show/movie etc you watch growing up teaches you to stand up for yourself.

I'm not saying he shouldn't stand up for himself. But come on now, in what world would it be cool to hit on an obviously homophobic person in attempt to get him to stop teasing you?

Like I was saying earlier, if Larry were my son I would have taught him when/where to pick such fights. Gays are murdered every day for simply 'looking' gay, (before reading this) would you think it's out of this world that he could be shot for hitting on a homophobic person?

I would just like to point out, that you're actually assuming that the kid who shot him was homophobic and that he learned it from his parents, when the article never aluded to any of that. You don't need to be homophobic, at least in terms of ideology to murder someone who is gay, especially considering that the environment in almost all schools seem to be to pick on the socially marginalized. He could have easily just shot him because he might have thought others might think he was gay to, which is what i concluded from the article, and if this situation is true, than Larry couldn't have known how or whether this other kid was homphobic or not.

Do you honestly think a person would go such great lengths to simply show he's not friendly with gay people, without not even an ounce of hatred towards gays himself? Let's be reasonable here. At that age, I'd do a lot of things to prove that I were cool with the "in" crowd.....but murdering someone? That's the type of shit you only see in gangs.

[Deejay]

And I wanna say that you're possibly overestimating how many gays are shot by homophobes.

Seriously, i was about to quote him and ask him to preface any post he makes from now on with i plead ignorance. Where the hell do you get this shit deejay?

You've got to be kidding?

Theres a thread on the first page of these forums about mexicans abusing emo's for LOOKING GAY.

Do you honestly think he wasn't seriously putting himself in harms way?

Shot/Beaten/whatever you want to call it. If that were my son I would have told him not to react to that type of situation with acting "more" gay. He's only escalating the situation by doing that.

Edit: Purposefully putting your liveliness/well being in danger simply to prove a point is seldom "worth it." It's good that we can learn from the situation and congratulate the kid for standing up for himself, but it's wrong to assume that he couldn't have found a better way to do it is all i'm saying.

[Deejay]

And to further prove my point, how many people do you know that outwardly and/or openly harass gays (or blacks, jews, muslims) wouldn't punch/jump/shoot one given the chance? People who preach intolerance by teasing usually aren't the most reasonable people.

[Doofus]

Learn2edit, also i missed the memo where the USA and mexico were the same country, but thats another story.

[Kuya]

Theres a thread on the first page of these forums about mexicans abusing emo's for LOOKING GAY

I assume you think the emos should stop acting "emo" so they don't get beaten up and god forbid, killed, for choosing what they wanted to act like, as much as the very same gangsters, and punks who are harassing them?

And to further prove my point, how many people do you know that outwardly and/or openly harass gays (or blacks, jews, muslims) wouldn't punch/jump/shoot one given the chance? People who preach intolerance by teasing usually aren't the most reasonable people.

West Balporo Church(sp?).

Many would like to shoot/punch/jump one them, but most wouldn't because that would be illegal, however in place many make counterprotests agaisnt the church, sue it, and even show up to trash talk them when they show up at funerals. Apperently alot of people believe that what they do is wrong, but they have a right to say it. Regardless, your argument is getting tiresome, the kid chose to fight back like this, he apperently was not afraid to do it, it was his decision to fight back agaisnt those who wronged him, he cannot be attacked for it especially because he never tried to attacked them physically. He was in the right, you cannot even argue this as both sides where wrong because he did not torment them. He aggravated them? They tormented him first and foremost. We all know had he not dressed like that or hit on them he would probably still be alive, but, i think, is his decision, and he wont be able to ponder it because he's dead. You can keep saying it would have been wiser to simply back down and take the punishment, but you know what? He apperently had the biggest balls there to be able to deal with that, and fight back, he did not care about being smart, he cared about what he believed in.

And yes, that is rhetoric.

[Deejay]

Learn2edit, also i missed the memo where the USA and mexico were the same country, but thats another story.

This happend in California for fucks sake. You think that when people cross the border they lose the ability to hate? Gays aren't even allowed to get married in this country, yet you'd assume that the people here are magically more tolerant?

Jesus Christ guys, let's be real here.

[Kuya]

Real about what? That an unlikely event happend and that he should have just accepted being harassed by others simply for being different? What else can you possibly say that extends beyond the extremely obvious.

"If he hadn't hit on them, this wouldn't have happend"
"If he hadn't hit on them, this wouldn't have happend"
"If he hadn't hit on them, this wouldn't have happend"
"If he hadn't hit on them, this wouldn't have happend"
"If he hadn't hit on them, this wouldn't have happend"

Thanks, we din't know that.

[Lexa]

The kid "putting himself in harm's way" when hitting on the bully is no different than anyone standing up for themselves in any situation. If someone comes to my face and calls me a racist word because I'm not caucasian, I'm gonna fire an insult back. If someone comes to my face and calls me a racist word because I'm not caucasian and they're just being pathetic about it, I'm gonna fire a sarcastically sweet insult back. Responding to harassment doesn't mean the kid deserved it, nor that it should have been a surprise.

Homophobes killing gay people? People kill people all the fucking time. If this needs to be something we need to consider, everyone just needs to stop fucking complaining about anything, because we're "putting ourselves in harms way."

PS. Gay marriage isn't legal in my country, either, yet there's been no kids shooting each other in the head over it. Gee.

[Deejay]

Real about what? That an unlikely event happend and that he should have just accepted being harassed by others simply for being different? What else can you possibly say that extends beyond the extremely obvious.

Harrassed? He's being teased my middle school kids. It's something that we all go through. I would never tell my brother to try to reason with asshole middle school kids unless I knew that he wouldn't be seriously harmed by it. If he wanted to stand up for himself i'd let him, but I wouldn't let him do it anywhere that wasn't in MY plain view.

Why? Because kids are beaten up/killed daily because of it. Sorry for valuing a person's life more than their "honor"

[Kuya]

Why? Because kids are beaten up/killed daily because of it. Sorry for valuing a person's life more than their "honor"

Did you know some people value honor over their own lives? Am i blowing your mind yet?

[Deejay]

The kid "putting himself in harm's way" when hitting on the bully is no different than anyone standing up for themselves in any situation.

Actually it's not. I have plenty of non-homophobic friends who would never ridicule someone for being gay. But those same people would not hesitate to punch a man who man homoerotic advances towards them.

Again, you guys are having a hard time understanding what i'm saying. I wouldn't tell someone to try to reason in this situation, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't tell someone to stand up for themselves any other time.

Hasn't anyone ever told you that it's wise to pick and choose your battles? This is one of those times where I would choose not to fight back, because nothing good can come of it.

[Beckwin]

The most valuable lessons the Kennedys and King taught us:


don't make a statement if there's a chance you could get shot.

You wanna talk about reality? How about that most people in this country are gonna go through life with never seeing someone shot and killed in a hate crime? Hate crimes resulting in murder are terrible and thankfully rare, but for a 15 year old to think he'd need to hold his tongue to avoid being shot by one of his peers is ludicrous. And I don't know a whole lot about Oxnard, but I don't think it's a Compton or south central LA.

[Beckwin]

I have plenty of non-homophobic friends who would never ridicule someone for being gay. But those same people would not hesitate to punch a man who man homoerotic advances towards them.

actually, your friends are homophobic. do they hit women who make unwanted advances?

[Deejay]

Why? Because kids are beaten up/killed daily because of it. Sorry for valuing a person's life more than their "honor"

Did you know some people value honor over their own lives? Am i blowing your mind yet?

Great, I hope he feels awesome for letting a bunch of middle school kids get to him. Let me tell you, if theres one thing to die for it's the honor of knowing that I stood up to a bunch of 13 year old kids.