15 year old gay kid, killed

[Tonko]

Deejay, just because you consider yourself respectful around gays, doesn't make you actually respectful around gays.

WHAT DO YOU THINK AN OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC PERSON WOULD DO?

Punch one in the face.

[Mizango]

It was a defense mechanism. Most kids respond to taunting my agreeing or pretending it is not occuring, look at Tonko's example. i mean duh, he was fucking provoked. I've blown air kisses to people on the court and on the bench when I played basketball in high school simply because they would get pissed and it threw them out of their game. Had they taken that wrong I should be shot too?

I mean I dont even see why this debate is even going on, it is like "He shouldn't have said he liked them olll!1" Nah fuck that, because had the little instigating fucktards minded their fucking business from the get go and just lived and let live then his dumb ass wouldn't be facing murder charges.

Call me cold and callous, but I have no pity for someone who does something out of sheer hate. I feel bad for his family for losing a son to the prison system. The school should also be held accountable for even allowing that environment to exist.

[EternityEnd]

Homophobia justification makes me lol.

I'm not justifying my friends acts. I'm simply saying that if SOMEONE WHO CONSIDERS HIMSELF RESPECTFUL AROUND GAYs would punch one in the face....WHAT DO YOU THINK AN OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC PERSON WOULD DO?

Edit: Seriously, some one answer the question and quit side-stepping it by attacking my friends.

Someone who considers themselves respectful around gay people =/= Someone who is respectful. A closeted homophobe isn't necessarily less disdainful towards homosexuals as an open homophobe.

[Lexa]

Homophobia justification makes me lol.

I'm not justifying my friends acts. I'm simply saying that if SOMEONE WHO CONSIDERS HIMSELF RESPECTFUL AROUND GAYs would punch one in the face. WHAT DO YOU THINK AN OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC PERSON WOULD DO?

There are plenty of homophobes in the world who don't go around shooting people in the head, even when provoked.

Giving you an example of someone enforcing their stereotype? How about Rosa Parks, stubbornly remaining in that front seat - especially after being told to go sit in the back where she belonged? Sure, she got thrown in the slammer because of it, but I don't see any segregated buses around anymore, either.

[Tyche]

How could a scared 15 year old resolve the situation with a bunch of irrational, immature, homophobic kids that torment him out of ignorance. He couldn't. Period.

I'm failing to see where the kid was scared in the story. Point me to the excerpt, because other than assumptions that a 15 year old gay kid has to be scared and cannot possibly be in a steady frame of mind, the story suggests the opposite.

[Deejay]

Homophobia justification makes me lol.

I'm not justifying my friends acts. I'm simply saying that if SOMEONE WHO CONSIDERS HIMSELF RESPECTFUL AROUND GAYs would punch one in the face....WHAT DO YOU THINK AN OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC PERSON WOULD DO?

Edit: Seriously, some one answer the question and quit side-stepping it by attacking my friends.

Someone who considers themselves respectful around gay people =/= Someone who is respectful. A closeted homophobe isn't necessarily less disdainful towards homosexuals as an open homophobe.

So you're saying that it's right to assume that open homophobes are less likely to be violent than closet ones?

That's like saying white people who dislike to walk on the same side of the street as black people are more apt to punch one in the face (given the opportunity) more-so than someone in the KKK.

[Deejay]

Homophobia justification makes me lol.

I'm not justifying my friends acts. I'm simply saying that if SOMEONE WHO CONSIDERS HIMSELF RESPECTFUL AROUND GAYs would punch one in the face. WHAT DO YOU THINK AN OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC PERSON WOULD DO?

There are plenty of homophobes in the world who don't go around shooting people in the head, even when provoked.

Giving you an example of someone enforcing their stereotype? How about Rosa Parks, stubbornly remaining in that front seat - especially after being told to go sit in the back where she belonged? Sure, she got thrown in the slammer because of it, but I don't see any segregated buses around anymore, either.

What Rosa Parks being stubborn because she was black? Or because she was tired?

Rosa Parks wasn't enforcing any stereotypes by refusing to get up. She wasn't acting "more" black by saying simply saying "no." She just refused to adhere to an obviously dumb rule. The situation isn't the same here.

[Kuya]

You still haven't given me a situation where enforcing a negative stereotype solves any problems. If he's not attempting to resolve the situation, what is he doing?

Gay men hitting on men is enforcing a negative stereotype?

[EternityEnd]

Someone who considers themselves respectful around gay people =/= Someone who is respectful. A closeted homophobe isn't necessarily less disdainful towards homosexuals as an open homophobe.

In your friend's case, I am correct, assuming your friends aren't 'openly' hateful towards gays. See, because punching someone in the face isn't not-homophobic.

[Stumblingdrunk]

That's like saying white people who dislike to walk on the same side of the street as black people are more apt to punch one in the face (given the opportunity) more-so than someone in the KKK.

This i think sums up your entire position, and its flawed in that you just don't know that to be true. You are making an assumption, one that not everyone agrees with. It is not a fact, and making 27 more posts in this thread won't make it any more than an assumption on your part.

[Deejay]

You still haven't given me a situation where enforcing a negative stereotype solves any problems. If he's not attempting to resolve the situation, what is he doing?

Gay men hitting on men is enforcing a negative stereotype?

No, hitting on the men who are negatively stereotyping you is enforcing said stereotype.

For example, you walk up to me and say "hey blackie, quit being lazy and go support your family."

Does it make sense to respond by actually being lazy and not supporting my family?

Is that helping or negating your image of me?

[Tricen]

I had a friend who had a 50 year old man hit on him at work. Did he punch him in the face? No, instead he was a civilized human being about it. He just said "Nah man, I'm not that way." and was pretty chill about it. How come other people feel the need to be hostile about it? Oh noez, ur masculinity has been hurtzed. Says who? Something offends you only if you allow it too. Get off your ego trip and get over yourself.

(Aimed towards people who react as said.)

Also, to be homophobic, you are afraid of homosexuals. People who become hostile towards gay people, or just people in general, are not phobics. They are just assholes.

[Lexa]

What Rosa Parks being stubborn because she was black? Or because she was tired?

Rosa Parks wasn't enforcing any stereotypes by refusing to get up. She wasn't acting "more" black by saying simply saying "no." She just refused to adhere to an obviously dumb rule. The situation isn't the same here.

She was most definitely making a bad situation worse, by refusing to get up and move. You say she was refusing to adhere to a "dumb rule." The only difference between that situation and this, was that that time's discrimination was written down as law, while today's is (mostly) unwritten prejudice bullshit.

As for other examples, I could tell you a personal story, but you'd probably just call bullshit on the account that you don't know me, don't know my life, don't know what's going on in every single corner of the world, you only know the bad cases that's being reported in the news - oh, wait, I guess that IS my point!

[Deejay]

That's like saying white people who dislike to walk on the same side of the street as black people are more apt to punch one in the face (given the opportunity) more-so than someone in the KKK.

This i think sums up your entire position, and its flawed in that you just don't know that to be true. You are making an assumption, one that not everyone agrees with. It is not a fact, and making 27 more posts in this thread won't make it any more than an assumption on your part.

So I guess being realistic is "assuming"?
Suppose you were a black person:
WHICH ONE OF THESE PEOPLE WOULD YOU RATHER SEE IF YOU NEEDED A HAND OUT OF A BURNING BUILDING?

http://www.lekkerverhaal.nl/weblog/w...1125593842.jpg

OR

http://samizdat.typepad.com/notes/randall-thumb.jpg

Seriously.

[Lexa]

I don't think I'd be thinking about what hand was saving me, but rather thinking something along the lines of OMG THIS BUILDING IS ON FIRE GET ME THE FUCK OUT HLAP HLAP HLAP!

[Deejay]

She was most definitely making a bad situation worse, by refusing to get up and move.

And Larry was making a bad situation worse by hitting on a homophobe. I'm not saying he deserved to die, but if he wanted to ultimately diffuse the situation and be allowed to live his life, hitting on a homophobe isn't going to do it.

Edit: It's just going to make the homophobe hate him more. Why respond to hateful people by giving them more of a reason to hate you? What does that do but add fuel to the fire?

[Lexa]

She was most definitely making a bad situation worse, by refusing to get up and move.

And Larry was making a bad situation worse by hitting on a homophobe. I'm not saying he deserved to die, but if he wanted to ultimately diffuse the situation and be allowed to live his life, hitting on a homophobe isn't going to do it.

Worked for Rosa Parks.

Hell, for that matter, it worked for me.

[Deejay]

Rosa Parks' reaction wasn't to act more black. Why do you keep bringing her up lol

[Lexa]

Rosa Parks' reaction wasn't to act more black. Why do you keep bringing her up lol

Because you just admitted ithey were both making a bad situation worse. You asked for an example, I gave one. Don't be offended because I poked holes in your flawed logic and beliefs that everyone is entitled to live their own life, as long as they do it quietly and subdued and just let the haters go about their business.

[Deejay]

Rosa Parks' reaction wasn't to act more black. Why do you keep bringing her up lol

Because you just admitted ithey were both making a bad situation worse. You asked for an example, I gave one. Don't be offended because I poked holes in your flawed logic and beliefs that everyone is entitled to live their own life, as long as they do it quietly and subdued and just let the haters go about their business.

I said, give me a situation where acting out a stereotype will make a person not stereotype you anymore. You're even saying so in this post.

"as long as they do it quietly and subdued and just let the haters go about their business."

Is hitting on homophobes "doing it quietly and subdued?" Or further cementing their hate for gays?

Edit: And I never said they had to live in a secret village, i'm saying that enforcing a negative stereotype doesn't solve anything.