Dynamis vs Salvage

[Judai]

Really depends on the situation/HNM. most of the time the King LSes I have been in would cancel Dynamis if Fafnir or an HQ King was open during that time. Salvage would be the same, don't schedule it if there is a HNM in the way. (currently I'm not in a LS that really does Kings, we do try to kill Cerb/Khim/Tia though.)

Once inside it again, depends on the circumstances and it usually is a judement call. What are the other HNM Shells doing? If they are busy too, possibly rush a claim party out, if you get claim end Dynamis and go kill. If not, they can come back or stay and watch. For Salvage, since it's only 6-10 people usually, I wouldn't force them out unless we needed them. Dynamis is a gil thing and you are usually getting some nice gil from things like Cerb/Tia to end it for. Salvage has nothing to do with gil and you would forcing people to waste tags/points to leave.

Again, it depends on the situations but imo Dynamis is easier to cancel because it's a gil thing and really, you can send a few people out to try to claim and see how things go. If you don't get it, they can always come back. Salvage, once people leave it's done and wasted. Really though, if you can't hold/kill something without 6-10 people in Salvage(some of which possibly not even in your LS) then idk lol.

At least 2x KV has popped while my Salvage group was on the 1st/2nd Floor of a run and we didn't leave. Some LS people griped and I think both times they ended up taking so long to gather that we actually finished the run and still made it out to help.

Dynamis is just wasting some gil, and only if you get claim/make everyone leave, that you are possibly making back by claiming w/e King popped.
Salvage is wasting people's time and Assault Points and Assault Tags. (Time they spent getting assault points to do the run.)

I've never had to worry about Tia/Cerb/Khim popping during a Salvage run though, so idk how my LS would react, I assume they would be pissed though if we didn't leave but seriously, you can't give me extra Assault Points/Tags by killing a King. Not to leave out, Salvage gear destroys 90% of King gear.

[Zhais]

All circumstantial I guess. I ended up getting kicked out of my hnmls because I prioritized salvage with my close friends over attending a zerg kirin (in which they had enough people to manage perfectly fine anyhow). In my own personal perspective, screwing my friends out of a night of salvage wasn't worth helping a kirin die 1 second faster. That and the ls leader making the bold statement of 'Salvage 1x a week is enough' pissed me off.

while you can do salvage anytime, personal schedules may not allow for postponing salvage an hour or starting an hour early. For my group, we either go at the time we go, or we basically don't go.

[Veli]

Salvage>everything

[Ayn]

Pretty much echoing what everyone else said: It depends.

King times are really unpredictable and if they start to bleed in to someone's preplanned Salvage time (like say, they've had the run planned for a week, they always go at that time, etc.) then I usually don't mind too much. I know how hard it can be to schedule some things / make some things.

On the other hand, if it's someone deciding "Hey, let's do a spur of the moment Salvage run even though I know we're at day 8 Nidhogg/Turtle/KB", then yeah I'm going to be a little pissed off and be irritated.

My group for my own Salvage policy kind of varies. If we're at a high day king, as one of the LS leaders, sometimes I'll just cancel the run altogether so we'll have a good force. But if we're pretty well staffed at the run, and a few people from my group not being there won't hurt anything, I usually just proceed along with it.

I draw the line at letting shit like Khimaira or Tiamat interrupt it, unless that shit's force popping within an hour of the run starting.

[Wizerd]

Is in-house Dynamis really that rare? >_> I've never done it any other way, I'm just asking since you said to completely disregard that possibility in the OP.

On Remora, there are 4 notable HNM LS. Three camp kings, all four do Tiamat/Cerb/Khim as far as I know. One of the 4 LS's does in-house dynamis successfully, but this is the one that doesn't really do things. One of them only goes once a week and is very Beauc/Xarc based, very very rarely doing anything else. Their in-house dynamis is successful. Apathy pretty much only does Xarca and I think some Dreamlands but I'm not sure, and they only go once a week usually. The last one tries to do in-house dynamis twice a week, but after dwindling from 30ish members to 15ish per run, and talking to some of their members, I've learned that they are absolutely "teh sukc" in dynamis, they can't do shit despite being able to kill DL with like 24-25 people with their KCs.

So in-house dynamis isn't a huge thing on Remora. That last LS can't even do attestations without their main leader online (who's mainly taking a break right now). Not sure how hard people think it is but we've trained like 3 or 4 different RDMs in our LS to solo the attestation eye. <_<

Anywho, thanks for the opinions, some varying thoughts here. XD Keep it coming.

[Hayguyz]

they can't do shit despite being able to kill DL with like 24-25 people with their KCs.

I'm sure i can guess, but i'm not sure if you're reffering to ATG or LoveBanana.

On topic: Savlage > All

[Zidiane]

How we do it.

Dynamis is In house, unless someones work doesnt allow them to attend or other, they we allow them there own ls. (We've cleared all the area's and not so bad at it, 1015 coins form last bastok 7 100's helped that out)

We might cancel rarely if nid is d9-10, but doubtful.(Dynamis being higher chances for loot). If a window is close we might end up doing dreamlands (2hr one) to make it in time.

How we do salvage.
2 Groups in ls runing morning and night time. We are able to full both groups runs, but we allow members to chose to run with either group or if they wish to, take a group outside of linkshell.

For kings, we only really do DA. KB/aspid we have little use for.
Khim/cerb and Tia, We run on a "If you want something from it camp it", which we have very little campers for tia and cerb. Khim we usualy always have people there. Nothing else to say on those really, depends if you have people intersted in the mob.

Limbus is similar to salvage, 2 groups, morning and night, dont forget members to go to eitehr one, usualy easier for them to tho, so it doesnt interfere with camps tho.

Ein... still getting worked out.

[Sendra]

If it's something that can be planned for, such as a three hour king window, we're expected to be present and not blowing it off for salvage. If it's a day two Tiamat pop and all we have there is a holding party, then I'm sure they'd give us some leniency.

As long as we don't plan salvage to cut into events, we're generally fine.

[Msnl]

Our LS does most end game events, Limbus, Dynamis, Einherjar, Kings, Tia, Cerb, Khim, KV. Our policy is to be in LS you have to do all of these events with us. For salvage, its recommended to join one of the groups in ls (not a ls event) because its just too difficult to do it with people outside ls. We don't generally skip dynamis or limbus for King camps unless its a high day, and then its usually only if 1-2 windows are cutting into our event time. Einherjar we never move, the only way it runs late is if were currently killing something when it's time. I think having a HNMLS, it's just too difficult to do salvage outside ls, because your going to have to choose one over the other sometime.

Our ls leader encourages us to do salvage, and you never have to leave salvage if an HNM pops, and you still get 1/2 credit for the HNM if you go immediately after you get out of salvage. The thought here is that you're doing salvage to help improve yourself, which improves the ls as a whole. That being said, camps are mandatory for us, and if you know salvage is going to run into one of the camps, you're expected to reschedule. If an NM pops during our dynamis (alot of people have mules they leave at camps), we usually send a holding party and just finish up our Dynamis. We mostly do Icelands/Dreamlands Dynamis, and its never more than 2-3 hours. Our roster has 38 people on it, but we have very good attendance for most events, usually only 4-5 people miss Dynamis/Limbus, and very rarely does anyone miss Einherjar.

I think the best solution for people in HNMLS is to try to find a salvage group that has most events with you, or go with friends, and just make it clear that you'll need the schedule to be a little flexible. I think in Dynamis, if 4 or 5 people leave to go do salvage, it probably wouldn't make or break your run, and Dynamis is usually scheduled a few days in advance, so you could maybe push back your salvage time.

Last thing, I don't think you should EVER have to leave salvage for another event. Like others said, you did assaults for points, you got your 6-10 people together, and generally every single person is necessary on a salvage run. So if you leave you're not only hurting yourself, you're hurting everyone else in your group too. If your HNMLS can't function without you at that Tiamat for whatever amount of time you have left in salvage, your problems are probably bigger than a couple people not being there. Just be considerate to events you know were scheduled in advance and let your group know you're not available at that time, or let your leaders of other events know you have salvage scheduled then.

[Alibeemac]

For us it is basically the case that if we have already entered Salvage or Dynamis we don't leave if an HNM pops. If there are people on the shell who can hold it til we are done fair enough otherwise we get ToD. Not everyone in our LS is in the associated Dynamis shell therefore it is known and accepted that if an HNM pops and even if we are mid fight, members leave for Dynamis if needed since some Dynamis shells penalise you for not being at Dynamis due to another in game event (we have several Dynamis shells not affiliated with an HNM ls on Lakshmi). Salvage is an in house activity as is Limbus, Einherjar etc. If we are camping an HNM and it is last window etc or we are mid fight, we have pushed these events back an hr or so in the past to finish up with the HNM. With HNMs you are expected to attend if you online doing exp or w/e however we don't force people to leave Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage etc for them.

[Ianpier]

Im pretty sure you are talking about my LS cuz we have gotten all the last nidhoggs 4-5, i dont know who told you that we make people drop from dynamis or salvage to do kings, that never happens, it has happened a couple of times that we had 6-8 people on a camp and we asked some people on pearl at the moment to come, overall if you were told that they were demanded to come to camps you were lied. i can be say i am 100% sure because im always around in late night camps and usually the only sack around as well at this time.

We do ask people to postpone events that might start mid-way or after a king camp started, but we dont break pearls or kill ppl thru the internetz if they dont come either.

edit: we do put everything in Lsmes, king windows, Cerb Khim KV tia everything so ppl are advised, so they can try to avoid or postpone events in conflicting times.

If their LS was more skilled, I might be ok with it, but it's not worth it to me to cancel my events so they can help some people they hardly know get gear. Someone who thinks Martial Body is God, for example.

I lol'd, sad is not true.

Anyways, if the members if your salvage group want to continue doing salvage with you during a king camp they can, there is indeed a few members that would prolly say some smart ass comment but that doesnt mean that any of the leaders is going to demand them to come to the camp.

[Wizerd]

Im pretty sure you are talking about my LS cuz we have gotten all the last nidhoggs 4-5, i dont know who told you that we make people drop from dynamis or salvage to do kings, that never happens, it has happened a couple of times that we had 6-8 people on a camp and we asked some people on pearl at the moment to come, overall if you were told that they were demanded to come to camps you were lied. i can be say i am 100% sure because im always around in late night camps and usually the only sack around as well at this time.

We do ask people to postpone events that might start mid-way or after a king camp started, but we dont break pearls or kill ppl thru the internetz if they dont come either.

edit: we do put everything in Lsmes, king windows, Cerb Khim KV tia everything so ppl are advised, so they can try to avoid or postpone events in conflicting times.

If their LS was more skilled, I might be ok with it, but it's not worth it to me to cancel my events so they can help some people they hardly know get gear. Someone who thinks Martial Body is God, for example.

I lol'd, sad is not true.

Anyways, if the members if your salvage group want to continue doing salvage with you during a king camp they can, there is indeed a few members that would prolly say some smart ass comment but that doesnt mean that any of the leaders is going to demand them to come to the camp.

<_< No, Ian, you're mistaken lol. I was talking about LB. Other than the altercations between Faggerheart and I last year, I think ATG is great.

I'd probably rejoin if I could, but I'm sure I've left a bad taste in some of the members' eyes from the whole thing lol. (seems like forever ago)

But yeah, I wasn't talking about ATG.

[Hayguyz]

I think ATG is great

Two-faced much? Let me quote you from page 8 of the Odin's Chamber thread.

Apathy does so well because it was pretty founded and is still run by a solid group of friends who generally know what they're doing in the game. Some of they be pretty immature at times, but they are tight-knit and can play (and do play - a lot). Despite the animosity towards the LS, the fact remains that they are often the first ones to do those "big things" because of this. As much as I'd to say they suck, they don't. (Well ok, I used to like to say they suck. I don't really hate them anymore, although I can't figure out why. I think maybe it's because ATG (also on Remora) are bigger douches than they ever were.)

Down with ATG. :D

(If anyone wants to hear a fun story about why AgainstTheGrain on Remora is now called ATGAgainstTheGrain, and my involvement in it, let me know.)

Grats on Sune-ate Ian!

[Wizerd]

I think ATG is great

Two-faced much? Let me quote you from page 8 of the Odin's Chamber thread.

[quote:1b14xoji]Apathy does so well because it was pretty founded and is still run by a solid group of friends who generally know what they're doing in the game. Some of they be pretty immature at times, but they are tight-knit and can play (and do play - a lot). Despite the animosity towards the LS, the fact remains that they are often the first ones to do those "big things" because of this. As much as I'd to say they suck, they don't. (Well ok, I used to like to say they suck. I don't really hate them anymore, although I can't figure out why. I think maybe it's because ATG (also on Remora) are bigger douches than they ever were.)

Down with ATG. :D

(If anyone wants to hear a fun story about why AgainstTheGrain on Remora is now called ATGAgainstTheGrain, and my involvement in it, let me know.)

Grats on Sune-ate Ian![/quote:1b14xoji]

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:25 am

Over half a year ago. I hadn't even realized Daggerheart had gotten banned at this point, and he and Gidgitte were my major beefs with ATG. I can be very biased.

I wouldn't exactly call it two-faced when the posts were 6 months apart. Opinions change as linkshells change. I used to have a better opinion of LB, but as of recent actions I don't. If they clean up and be less bitchy, then yeah, I'll probably like them too. The concept of change isn't that hard.

Who are you, anyway? Hiding behind anonymous is pretty sad. :/

In case you're curious, my opinion of Apathy has fallen a bit since that point too. Oh noes, even more two-faced!

No need to make drama where drama isn't present.

[Ianpier]

Then forget i said anything !

thanks, about damn time LAC stopped being so lame.

[Caerloc]

Any type of planned event > king camp for us. Assault, ENM, salvage, einherjar, dynamis, limbus, sky, sea, nyzul. We still have like 25 hq cerb mantle's, 14 hauteclaires, 5 d.rings, and lost track a looong time ago on e.bodys and ridills and gaiters. You shouldnt let any type of camps ruin your plans imo, takes the fun out of the game.

[Judai]

Any type of planned event > king camp for us. Assault, ENM, salvage, einherjar, dynamis, limbus, sky, sea, nyzul. We still have like 25 hq cerb mantle's, 14 hauteclaires, 5 d.rings, and lost track a looong time ago on e.bodys and ridills and gaiters. You shouldnt let any type of camps ruin your plans imo, takes the fun out of the game.

We still have like 25 hq cerb mantle's, 14 hauteclaires, 5 d.rings, and lost track a looong time ago on e.bodys and ridills and gaiters.

25 hq cerb mantle's

Does Luciola craft for you?

[Caerloc]

Its a T1 synth and we where close to alone on cerb for over a year. Thats over tho, but we still average 1-2 cerb+1 every 1-2 months.