How long before bots go the way of windower

[Starr]

3 years too late?

Hardly.. lol
Bots aren't used by even half of the end game population at this point in time.

Maybe I wasn't clear, 3 years ago botting was common no?

[Judai]

Windower is cheating yes, but it doesn't screw other people over, it enhances the game for everyone around them really.

Botting fucks over anyone not willing to risk their account for a piece of gear, or possibly their morales and it fucks over all non-PC players(like me). I personally play on x360 and couldn't even bot if I wanted to but what's the point in cheating at everything? I find a good deal of people who bot long enough, start to cheat at everything else. Once you get away with botting, why not stun bot, why not fish bot, etcetc. The people that surpass simple claim botting are the complete failures of FFXI.

Gear you -have- isn't fun. Gear you're getting is. Anticipation is always better.

Anticipation is over rated and that only applies to people who can't value what they have. Oh yay, I already have that who cares I need more. That is also a common problem botters have, they are greedy and need more. New gear is however, more fun then older gear.

3 years too late?

Hardly.. lol
Bots aren't used by even half of the end game population at this point in time.

Maybe I wasn't clear, 3 years ago botting was common no?

Maybe it's not the same on all servers but this is true. Botting became commonplace on Ifrit a few days after the claim patch and NA finally had a real chance at Kings.

At this point in my FFXI career, I couldn't care less about claim botting because one shell on Ifrit cheats in every way possible. There really is no point in trying against them at Kings unless your entire linkshell is willing to cheat, beat cheaters by cheating yourself. However, surpassing claim botting is still pathetic in my eyes, which is why I look at so many of their members as complete retards who can't play the game for shit. (It's really funny when they try to talk shit about people missing a stun or something though, when everyone knows they can't stun shit unless they have their stun bots running.)

If other people are botting, you might as well bot. No point having morales in a game when your competition is scum.

[Falisa]

It has only been on forums that I see a clear statement of people disliking bots but in all my time on FFXI, on Fenrir server and Unicorn, everyone I meet has the mentality of "go cry about it" if you complain about a bot. In my mind, if you're in a LS with little to no bots on a server with LSs that have several, be ready to claim maybe once a month or less. That's just how the game works now, and usually the same response by those LSs is the usual "botting is bad you guys are cheating!" which is where you get back to what I said about it in the first place..

But I probably have a different stance on it than most other servers because on the app list, Unicorn is #1 and Fenrir isn't that far behind..

[RKenshin]

I think it also has a lot to do with the fact people are tired of it, and don't care enough to see more annoying "NO U BOT LOL GET RL GIRL" shitfest arguments. You see one argument about botting, and you've seen them all. And we've been seeing them all daily between different forums for the past 3 or so years.

Recently, and especially after Taj's release that opened a lot of people's eyes, people just don't care as much anymore. Outright accusing people of botting just because you can might as well be the next "RL card" at this point... Outside of real hard proof, it means just as much as any other kind of lolshitalk and lolgangster actions over the internet. It's more a question of "who hasn't been accused of botting?" than "who doesn't bot?", and when it has reached that point 100 times over people just start to not care.

Personally I'm still upset about its continued existence in the game, but I definitely react to it differently now than I did a 1-3 years ago. For reasons above.

And, I basically feel: "If you want to be a dumbass and risk losing everything you worked for in FF, for a 1/10 chance of getting claim on an NM that you could probably still claim 1/10 times without the bot (and a brain), then be my guest." Many people just seem to be missing that brain part.

[Therin]

As many others have already said, if you're examining the point objectively then botters and windower users alike both deserve to be banned. They're both breaking the rules, and taking the risk in doing so, so they deserve whatever they get.

Realistically, I admit to being strongly anti-bot. I don't make the same distinction with windower, however (though, anyone who claims to be "moral" should). I would never join a linkshell that openly bots. I would also never accept anyone to my linkshell who could be proven as a botter (i.e., I wouldn't take someone in if they STILL botted - ex-botters I could consider, if they have a good personality otherwise - the question of whether or not they actually stopped botting is of course a difficult one, but it's a discussion for another time).

Personally, I use windower when I log on my laptop. Fortunately, I feel safe doing so because I very, very rarely login on my laptop. Mostly I used it for dual-boxing back when I was doing HNMs. Now, I have no need to use it and only play on Xbox 360. So, I guess that makes me a windower user/rule-breaker/whatever. I guess that also means that I shouldn't point the fingers at botters. Oh well.

It all comes down to what actually affects you.

If all of the botters got banned, I'd probably lose a friend or two (people who I'm unaware bot - I'm not naive enough to believe that all of my friends are legit in this regard). Overall, though, I'd leap for joy because I'd know that across the servers dozens of douchebags just got the boot, and that makes me happy.

At the same time, even though I agree that windower users deserve the same fate, I would never wish it upon them (banning probably 30% or more of the user base would obliterate this game). Why? Because most of my friends play this game on the PC, and most of them use windower. If all of the windower users were banned, I'd pretty much be playing the game alone.

A lot of us have the same hypocritical attitude that I do. Ultimately, the best thing that SE could do would be to say: "We're installing features like TParty on our official windower and improving its interface so that it's more appealing to the playerbase. We're also going to start banning people who we can prove use the unofficial third party windower starting in a month."

If that were to happen, everyone would have the chance to migrate to the SE windower (which currently sucks) except for those rogue users who take advantage of the more unfair plug-ins. At that point, no one would have any justifiable reason to say, "I use the unofficial windower instead because it has x, y and z functions" without being labeled as someone who is trying to gain an unfair advantage. Unfortunately, I don't think SE would ever do this. I guess it makes me childish to admit that I'm still holding on to the hope that at some point, they WILL learn to AT LEAST take the steps to remove as many botters as possible from the game.

[Pamelita]

Bots and people like Judai (gung-ho anti-bots) are like Catholics:

They are hypocrits (you're all as big a jack-ass as the next guy in one way or another).

And they have a holier-than-thou attitude, or "lulz I'm more of an asshole than you" or "lulz I care less than you" when most of you internet types are really not as 'bad-ass' as your alter-in-game-ego poses to be.

Both are very annoying. Which is the only thing that *really* bothers me about botters and their extreme opposites: the holier-than-thou attitude with bigger bark than bite.

So yeah (I can't remember who said it), people are going to think what they're going to think and there's nothing you can do about it; so just give up.

I have spoken.

[Valisk]

I use to be against botting (and windower because I couldnt get all the neat plug-ins on PS2/3). My attitude changed after camping for a little over a year and getting a handful of Aspis, a couple KBs, and 1 Nidhogg.

Ifrit was dominated by JP shells (one in particular that made an effort to camp 100% NQs just so we wouldn't get a chance at a BB item). Those days were hell but we went back day after day just for a chance at some of the gear/fights.

After the claim patch, we began botting and never looked back. The shoe was on the other foot and in all honesty, it felt good. Finally getting what we deserved even if it was at the expense of others. I stopped caring when I realized that no amount of bitching and moaning was going to change anything. Plus I had been with my LS for over a year and wasn't about to just up and leave my friends just because they wanted to level the playing field. Eventually 'levelling the playing field' became 'heavily favoring us' and I didn't care. Survival of the Fittest.

The fact that botting isn't detectable by SE, therefore eliminating the risk of punishment has also helped botting become more accepted. It's equivalent to spamming a macro/menu and getting the "You must specify target." message. The servers can't tell the difference therefore it can't make the distinction between botting and manual spamming. I play on PS2/3 and have never botted but I have been in a shell that openly bots and I embrace botting. If I had a PC, I'd bot to help my LS as they have helped me. More claims means more gear and more gear keeps the LS moral up. Gotta keep up with the Joneses!

Edit: Paragraphs are your friend.

Edit2: Hi Pamarama!

[Therin]

Bots and people like Judai (gung-ho anti-bots) are like Catholics:

They are hypocrits (you're all as big a jack-ass as the next guy in one way or another).

And they have a holier-than-thou attitude, or "lulz I'm more of an asshole than you" or "lulz I care less than you" when most of you internet types are really not as 'bad-ass' as your alter-in-game-ego poses to be.

Both are very annoying. Which is the only thing that *really* bothers me about botters and their extreme opposites: the holier-than-thou attitude with bigger bark than bite.

So yeah (I can't remember who said it), people are going to think what they're going to think and there's nothing you can do about it; so just give up.

I have spoken.

You're not a hypocrite just because you're anti-bot. That statement is ridiculous.

You ARE a hypocrite however if you're anti-bot and yet still use your own third party programs that you have deemed justifiable (like windower).

*EDIT* To further clarify, the above poster has the exact same kind of attitude that makes me wish SE would actually ban people for botting. Anyway, carry on.

[Valisk]

You're not a hypocrite just because you're anti-bot. That statement is ridiculous.

You ARE a hypocrite however if you're anti-bot and yet still use your own third party programs that you have deemed justifiable (like windower).

However in Judai's case, who I think Pam was directing it at, he is/was the biggest hypocrite on Ifrit. You would have thought that he was running for President of Online Operations at SE and anti-botting was his platform. Then low and behold, he joins a LS that argubly starting NA botting on Ifrit. Judai gave us hell for 3+ years only to bow out and join the very thing he campaigned against for so long.

I hated Judai with a passion back then. God, don't get me started lol.

[Judai]

Bots and people like Judai (gung-ho anti-bots) are like Catholics:

They are hypocrits (you're all as big a jack-ass as the next guy in one way or another).

And they have a holier-than-thou attitude, or "lulz I'm more of an asshole than you" or "lulz I care less than you" when most of you internet types are really not as 'bad-ass' as your alter-in-game-ego poses to be.

Both are very annoying. Which is the only thing that *really* bothers me about botters and their extreme opposites: the holier-than-thou attitude with bigger bark than bite.

So yeah (I can't remember who said it), people are going to think what they're going to think and there's nothing you can do about it; so just give up.

I have spoken.

You obviously didn't read my post and why the fuck would I even care what you think about me?

Yes, I was huge anti-botting and I changed my tune. I joined a botting LS to have some fun. I was tired of watching everyone cheat so rampantly, so I now condone botting to beat botters. I however do not condone the use of Stun bots and Fish bots, which Valisk's LS doesn't care about. Valisk's LS cheats at just about everything they can, the LS is really lacking skill since they struggle and miss stuns when they don't have their stun bots on. I myself have never botted, but in a way I am a hypocrite, no more then all of Valisk's LS or Valisk himself or 50% of our server. btw, both people who "started botting on Ifrit" in my LS were banned within about a month of starting it and didn't return for quite some time, it was your LS Valisk that continued botting even after the first waves of cheaters were heavily banned.

It's kinda funny. All the Old School NA people bitch about how the JP dominated the server and how much bullshit it was. Now, those same people use cheats for just about everything and do the same thing the JPs did, they even took it a step farther and sell the Abjs to anyone willing to buy them. Talk about hypocrites.

btw, there is no actual evidence the JPs botted that I know of, NAs began claiming plenty of Kings the day of the claim patch and then they started botting to beat each other as well. NAs assumed the JPs botted and used it as an excuse to bot themselves.

Some people will do whatever and put up with whatever it takes to get ahead and they use that as a copout to cheat/lie/steal. Thats the simple truth and the way the human race works irl and in game.

[Valisk]

Yes, I was huge anti-botting and I changed my tune. I joined a botting LS to have some fun. I was tired of watching everyone cheat so rampantly, so I now condone botting to beat botters. I however do not condone the use of Stun bots and Fish bots, which Valisk's LS doesn't care about. Valisk's LS cheats at just about everything they can, the LS is really lacking skill since they struggle and miss stuns when they don't have their stun bots on.

It's kinda funny. All the Old School NA people bitch about how the JP dominated the server and how much bullshit it was. Now, those same people use cheats for just about everything and do the same thing the JPs did, they even took it a step farther and sell the Abjs to anyone willing to buy them. Talk about hypocrites.

Yea, I covered the part about the shoe being on the other foot. It's like when you get a little taste of "power" you just run with it. It's hard to give that up when you've been benefitting from it for so long. As far as Stun bots go, I don't remember anyone ever using that. I know some members bind a spell to a single key and manually hit that but that's no different from a windower macro right? And stop saying Valisk's LS because I dont have a LS. The next time I log on I'm sure my ugly pinkish Atariii pearl would be broken and long gone.

Edit: BAM! Ding!

[Pamelita]

Talk about having a goatse-sized stick up your ass.

I wasn't really directing anything at Judai but people *like* Judai. I was saying that gung-ho anti-botters are hypocrits because they are not better than botters, yet their holier-than-thou attitude makes it obvious they think they are.

Unless you're some kind of supreme being (which you're not) you have flaws just like the next guy. While morals in FFXI may not be your weakness, something is. My weakness is that I judge my family, and I hate being judged, that makes me a hypocrite. Judai's weakness is his mouth, he can't stay quiet to save his life. He talks till he's blue in the face saying he doesn't care what people think; but here he is, explaining himself. Do I hate him for it? Not really (I think if he picked fights a little less, we'd be good friends). Is it annoying? Fuck yeah.

I'm not trying to pick fights with you Judai. I'm so sorry *your highness* for having uttered your name. So yeah stop picking fights with me.


P.S. Hi Val! <3

[Judai]

Sorry, seemed like you picking a fight since it seemed like you were talking about me. In a purely FFXI Game sence, I AM better then those who cheat. Why? because I don't cheat. I wouldn't even try to bring irl into this, I won't say mine is better or anything like that, it's a game and in this game, to me, those people fail hardcore.

Am I pissed for 3 years the same people have been cheating and talking shit while cheating? Yes and it shows. When some retard thinks he is better then you because he uses a stun bot to stun GoH or ga3 and then talks shit when you miss a stun, it annoys me and I like to talk shit back. It's my flaw yes, and I admit it. I don't know when to shut up because I like to argue.

[Pamelita]

I know what you mean, it bothers me too. But argumentative people get on my nerves too lol. Poor Rem, he knows I get uncomfortable when he starts instigating shit.

Ok then.

Carry on.

<___<

[Valisk]

When some retard thinks he is better then you because he uses a stun bot to stun GoH or ga3 and then talks shit when you miss a stun, it annoys me and I like to talk shit back.

Still don't know who you are talking about that stun bots.

[Lexa]

I still only use windower to get distracted by websites while playing. Don't use windower macros, I hit two macros for my WS gear and two macros for my TP gear. I have TParty loaded occsionally, but don't really use it and usually end up unloading it at some point, because I like to take screenshots/video and it's ugly in the corner of the screen. I used Distance when I first started lvling BRD, then at level 12 decided I would rather learn to judge the song distances by myself, and hasn't since. I tried Drawdistance to make the game look pretty for my vids/screens, which it did, but it also brought me to 10fps, so no go there. The rest of the plugins don't interest me at all. >.>

I must be the world's lamest windower user.

(PS. I still have my Darter DATs too ;p)

[zhan]

I think it's funny how a lot of shit that people used a couple years ago and were hated for using are now plugins for windower and people are 100% ok with it.






I was using some of those programs back in the day and barely use them to this day .... opposite of most people :X

[Cletis]

when the game first came out i bought my ps2 gameshark a few months before for my stuntman and ffx fix..holy crap how i wish that is possible. just put in 10 lines of hex for w/e you want. or hold R1 for unlimited health or something.

the cheating i want is the old cheating where you have crappy stuff but you oneshot everything and if they touch you it drops gold and boobies fall out of the sky onto your screen. botting is cheating. but it isnt cool cheating. i like cheats on golden eye to make everyone have big heads. can we make a windower plugin for that ? PLEASE ???

[Larrieux]

3 years too late?

Took the words right out of my mouth and typed them before me

[Judai]

When some retard thinks he is better then you because he uses a stun bot to stun GoH or ga3 and then talks shit when you miss a stun, it annoys me and I like to talk shit back.

Still don't know who you are talking about that stun bots.

Airez, Fathover(fish botter extrodanaire as well), etcetc. Lots of ppl in the LS.