Oil Independence in the Near Future?

[Alleya]

As long as the prices for oil are cheaper than the prices for other renewable resources, no one is going to stop using it. If we end up drilling in North Dakota, the government should try to establish a way start relying on another energy source long before our Oil begins to run out.

Last I checked, a bank of photovoltaic cells large enough to power your house year round pays for itself in under 10 years while almost completely eliminating grid usage and the pollution associated with that. (As I understand it you can even sell back your surplus power to the electric company during peak hours.)

They're also beginning to produce photovoltaic films that can be put into windows or paint and is very very cheap to produce.

The problem? Government would rather give another multi-billion dollar tax break to Exxon than invest in more rapid development of photovoltaics.

[Correction]

The problem? Government would rather give another multi-billion dollar tax break to Exxon than invest in more rapid development of photovoltaics.

There's also all those pesky 'employees' who feed their families thanks to the status quo. Nothing is as cut and dried as it seems.

[archibaldcrane]

photovoltaics.

Those are great and all, but we need more solar power towers like they are putting up in spain for the arid sunny southwest:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...er_tower_2.jpg
So sweet.

[Alleya]

The problem? Government would rather give another multi-billion dollar tax break to Exxon than invest in more rapid development of photovoltaics.

There's also all those pesky 'employees' who feed their families thanks to the status quo. Nothing is as cut and dried as it seems.

Crude oil is still used in the production of plastics and lubricants and many other applications. Removing oil from energy production would not make the industry disappear, just get a lot smaller. Unfortunately, I weigh the fate of the earth heavier than the unfortunate circumstances of the few who will lose their jobs if/when the oil companies begin to downsize.

Edit: I also fail to see how huge tax breaks for a cooperation making tens of billions of dollars in profit per year (and giving their CEOs billions of dollars in bonuses each year) helps the employees.

[Shuemue]

Even if we could rely on our own oil reserves for two decades, that's not oil independence. That's oil dependence... just our own oil, and only for two decades.

What this guy said.

As a country (Read: As a world) we should be trying to break away from non-renewable sources of energy entirely.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: "When you're addicted to crack, the solution isn't to change dealers".

People can call me liberal all they want, but I see it as primarily a national security issue. The sooner we can stop using oil, the sooner we can stop sending money to countries that hate us. Even if we can get off of the foreign junk for premo all-national shit, we will eventually run out and go back to be OPEC's strawberry.

I suspect it would vastly improve international relations after the economics had settled down.

[Kuya]

photovoltaics.

Those are great and all, but we need more solar power towers like they are putting up in spain for the arid sunny southwest:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/ ... ower_2.jpg
So sweet.

Now make those solar towers reach outerspace, and i'll be ecstatic. Make Gundams to.

[Khamsin]

The problem? Government would rather give another multi-billion dollar tax break to Exxon than invest in more rapid development of photovoltaics.

There's also all those pesky 'employees' who feed their families thanks to the status quo. Nothing is as cut and dried as it seems.

Because they can't work for all the new renewable resource companies and power stations that would pop up, right?

Obviously, if renewable resources replaced oil for energy, the renewable resource market would grow to be as big as the oil industry. Instead of big oil, it'd be big solar. Instead of government tax breaks to exxon, it'd be tax breaks to solarron. There's no reason to believe that the renewable resource industry wouldn't employ as many people as the oil industry, if it were to become the new primary source of energy for the world.

[ronin sparthos]

That'd be the day.... that the US wasnt hooked on oil and free of OPECs whims.

[Kazen]

photovoltaics.

Those are great and all, but we need more solar power towers like they are putting up in spain for the arid sunny southwest:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/ ... ower_2.jpg
So sweet.

Now make those solar towers reach outerspace, and i'll be ecstatic. Make Gundams to.

Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon Lockon

[Correction]

Edit: I also fail to see how huge tax breaks for a cooperation making tens of billions of dollars in profit per year (and giving their CEOs billions of dollars in bonuses each year) helps the employees.

It doesn't

It does, however, make a difference in the continued employment of those in government in a position to change our national energy policy. They don't keep their jobs if the people who voted them in their lose theirs thanks to a change towards renewable energy.

If you're looking for a reason why 'The Government' would rather do one thing over another, look no further than the people who vote to keep them in office. I'm simply illustrating why things are difficult to change beyond the 'Greed & Bad Government' stance often taken by the left.

Convince enough people that there is REAL MONEY, not subsidized bullshit (hi2u plastics recycling) in non-petroleum energy. Then you'll have a Congress less afraid of changing things.

[Intense]

The problem? Government would rather give another multi-billion dollar tax break to Exxon than invest in more rapid development of photovoltaics.

There's also all those pesky 'employees' who feed their families thanks to the status quo. Nothing is as cut and dried as it seems.

Because they can't work for all the new renewable resource companies and power stations that would pop up, right?

Obviously, if renewable resources replaced oil for energy, the renewable resource market would grow to be as big as the oil industry. Instead of big oil, it'd be big solar. Instead of government tax breaks to exxon, it'd be tax breaks to solarron. There's no reason to believe that the renewable resource industry wouldn't employ as many people as the oil industry, if it were to become the new primary source of energy for the world.

Now, I cant be the only to have thought of/wondered this, but I dont understand why these oils companies dont invest in/invent/start producing alternate renewable energy sources?

I mean, its no secret that the world is running out of said consumables, and theyd hold the patents to such technologies and could only benefit and ensure theirs companies future. Why isnt this done? (Correct me if Im wrong)

[ronin sparthos]

Because its easier to stick to whats known overall, oil is still turning profits - most oil companies have their hands in renewable energy but the fact is that oil will always be #1 so long as its such a hot ticket item.

[Khamsin]

Because its easier to stick to whats known overall, oil is still turning profits - most oil companies have their hands in renewable energy but the fact is that oil will always be #1 so long as its such a hot ticket item.

I'm sure the future CEO on whose watch the oil will run out will start investing in new energy sources.

[ronin sparthos]

Correct, because thats the only way i can see a MAJOR change in which we get off oil and move to the next big thing. Fear not, those geniuses are busy throwing money at the government to charge us for using the sun.

Solar Panel taxes anyone?

[sunb1ind]

And people complain about my topics... give me a fuckin break lol This is the equivalent of a high school book report. As others have already mentioned:"Just why WOULD the govt want to get off oil?" Did you not catch this year's record-breaking oil profits across the board? Gee, why are we paying more at the pump and at the market then? Surely lower gas prices would help the economy more than a taxable "relief package" amirite?

We have had the technology and the resources to ditch petrol and carbon for awhile. If other countries are doing it, why can't we? Hmmmmm, I think this goes back to the argument of how I'm too pessimistic, a conspiracy theorist because I believe the govt is corrupt/overrun by corporations, etc. Kinda hard not to be when you're struggling to fill the tank up everyday while the rich get richer.

Anyways, here's a good video of Mike Gravel explaining ways that we can get off these here fossil fuels. I think he starts on it a few mins into the video, might have to skip to it. http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=TpCC-GrAwWs

What do you think? The man sounds sane enough to me? lol

[Correction]

That Mike Gravel vid is full of handwaving. Global carbon tax? Integration of the world's scientific and engineering communities to 'get off of carbon' in 10 years? Force a law down the throat of the energy producers of the world requiring them to rebuild the entire energy grid and transportation infrastructure of the United States on a deadline while providing zero funding for it? And after all that things become magically prosperous?

Yeah, realistic! I'm sure everyone will line up right behind such a plan!

[Tajin]

Ok, I'm at a loss of words

[sunb1ind]

That Mike Gravel vid is full of handwaving. Global carbon tax? Integration of the world's scientific and engineering communities to 'get off of carbon' in 10 years? Force a law down the throat of the energy producers of the world requiring them to rebuild the entire energy grid and transportation infrastructure of the United States on a deadline while providing zero funding for it? And after all that things become magically prosperous?

Yeah, realistic! I'm sure everyone will line up right behind such a plan!

Do you honestly think it COULDN'T be done if there was a demand and willingness to do it? The Carbon tax would practically force companies to start investing in alternative resources. Face it, America is falling behind in terms of efficient technologies. Not because we have to, but because we choose to.

It will take nothing short of a drastic change if we are to ever have a chance of becoming a self-sufficient country on energy. That's the only reason why Gravel sticks out like a sore thumb, he cuts the bullshit and tells you what needs to be done. Screw all the "change" rhetoric with no actual plans to show for it.

[Khamsin]

I do wonder, though, if someday there will be a time when people look back and consider our oil-based machinery as antiquated as we consider steam-based machinery.

[sunb1ind]

I think so. It seems, with how fast technology is being advanced, that time will come in merely a few decades. There's some real science fiction-type stuff being developed, I think we will enter another chapter in technology continuing after the computer-age. This is something I find really interesting that could happen in my lifetime. Crazy stuff