Oil Independence in the Near Future?

[Correction]

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying Gravel's approach is unrealistic, unspecific and relies too much on companies actually swallowing the pill of an unfunded, uninsured investment in the largest public works program in 60 years. Just because the US military was producing battleships at the rate it was during WW2 doesn't mean his '10 years' timetable is realistic. Are you willing to go back to 'victory gardens' and food rations to convert our industries back into 'total war' mode? Because that's what it took to produce like the States did in the 1940s. 'Other countries' that are doing it aren't trying to stabilize and keep happy a population of 300 million, where priorities during an election year aren't centered so much on energy policy as much as they are on rapidly collapsing home values, an interminable war and a complete lack of health care.

[evilbau]

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying Gravel's approach is unrealistic, unspecific and relies too much on companies actually swallowing the pill of an unfunded, uninsured investment in the largest public works program in 60 years. Just because the US military was producing battleships at the rate it was during WW2 doesn't mean his '10 years' timetable is realistic. Are you willing to go back to 'victory gardens' and food rations to convert our industries back into 'total war' mode? Because that's what it took to produce like the States did in the 1940s. 'Other countries' that are doing it aren't trying to stabilize and keep happy a population of 300 million, where priorities during an election year aren't centered so much on energy policy as much as they are on rapidly collapsing home values, an interminable war and a complete lack of health care.

=D>

[Keno]

You can't extract all the oil in a certain place, some areas can only extract 25-35% of the oil available. There are also a lot of areas with huge quantities of oil available but it still remains cheaper to buy from elsewhere so it probably depends how easily that oil can be extracted and what quality it is in. I didn't read the article so some of that may be addressed.

And though oil is unlikely to remain priced at current stratospheric levels, prices won’t drop to much lower levels, which happened several times since the 1970s, and cause new exploration to dry up. Even if prices fell by half, many barrels of oil could still be produced -- profitably -- from the region.

[Beckwin]

I think the positive of this is that we can possibly wean ourselves from Middle Eastern oil (and also stop worrying about Chinese oil enterprising) in the immediate future as we pull out of Iraq and hopefully start putting some serious efforts into renewable sources. I'd say it's pretty plausible to be looking at a viable alternative in 20 years if we start putting some serious effort into it.

[arus2001]

Can we just offer all our illegal immigrants citizenship if they hole themselves up in the Dakotas for 3 years to build whatever facilities are needed so we'd have our temporary fix of Texas Tea? We can offer 'em housing and prison quality food while we're at it. >.>

[Plow]

Honestly I think the real issue is that nobody knows wtf we're going to do with a hundred million cars that run on gas when nobody is making gas anymore.

[sunb1ind]

Its very true, at this point, we do have much bigger issues to tackle in this country. But, the plan to build the 2 million windmills, produce hydrogen-run transportation, and etc. is a little bit different than what he gave as an example in building battleships for the war. The carbon tax will put the burden more on the companies financially instead and eventually make it more realistic for them to start building contracts for producing alternative energy.

Besides, the other issues you mentioned are NOT going to change with any of the current top-tier candidates elected. All 3 support a potential war with Iran and none of them have an actual timeline to withdraw the current soilders serving in Iraq. Not to mention, all 3 of them also support healthcare changes with still include health insurance companies, not much a change there, more like 'smoke and mirrors' on the public. I don't see how you can get out of debt or pay for a truely universal healthcare if we are still blowing millions a day in the war on 'terrerrror'.

[pohibaba]

The problem? Government would rather give another multi-billion dollar tax break to Exxon than invest in more rapid development of photovoltaics.

Maybe it's just the libertarian in me, but why should the "government" be investing in anything? Shouldn't we just let the market decide when and what our next energy source will be?

[BIGSTIC]

I love all this talk about how the GOVERNMENT has to do something about our oil dependency

The solutions are already out there. IF YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY.

IT all boils down to are you willing to sacrifice your high dollar pc, tv, pool, etc for the chance at being less dependent on OIL. I think we have to accept the fact that OIL will always be around powering something. But we can RIGHT NOW reduce that dependency. You know for $30K you can put a windmill on your land that will produce enough electricity to power your home. Or we can put solar cells on your roof for about the same price. And to top it off if you produce more than you can use most states REQUIRE that the local power distributer buy the extra from you. How about we talk about all those power hungry AC units cooling 99% of all the servers we love frequenting. Last year I was out in WA were Google was building a new server facility. We were there updating the citys water supply to handle the extra water to keep the buildings AC units running to cool the servers. Or we could discuss the fact that most houses in the US run on antiquated heating/cooling systems but OMG I want a new TV rather than get an efficient furnace. I am sorry but we can only blame ourselves. The technology is HERE and it is within most peopls grasps but that $60 video game is mutch more entertaining than buying a new window that doesnt let all the heat out of the house.

Sorry for the rant but can you really blame the oil companies trying to make a buck. They are a BUSINESS and well they should make money. Opening up ND wont help lower prices because this is a global market. All it will do is allow the mid east the ability to slow their production down. I swear I could have read recently that OPEC was shooting for $90/barrel. Seems like they are staying right there and that ND oil will be $90/barrel oil too or it wont be coming out of the ground too long.

[Beckwin]

uh, the oil business is a business sure, but one that isn't willing to take risks because they've enjoyed such necessity for the past 100 years. however it's a little puzzling that they aren't seriously pursuing alternative sources because we're getting to the point where those will be the necessity, so it's highly profitable in the long term to get established early (or so I'd think).

[BIGSTIC]

uh, the oil business is a business sure, but one that isn't willing to take risks because they've enjoyed such necessity for the past 100 years. however it's a little puzzling that they aren't seriously pursuing alternative sources because we're getting to the point where those will be the necessity, so it's highly profitable in the long term to get established early (or so I'd think).

If I buy oil companys stock I want them making money selling oil. I dont want them waisting money trying to find a way to stop making oil. If they want to find a way to make oil cheaper and more dividends for me then hooray. IF I want renewable energy I should take my pretty decent stock in my oil company and turn it to a windfarm/solar company. Why should we expect the oil companys to change. I see most company's run buy $$$ and not comon sense so why would I expect anything different from the oil company's. These companys are doing what their investors want, cant really balme the company.

[Beckwin]

We should expect them to change because you don't have an oil company when there's no oil.

[BIGSTIC]

We should expect them to change because you don't have an oil company when there's no oil.

Telling the oil comapnys the oil is gonna run out is like telling a creationist they evolved. Hell they are going 5+miles deep to find their precious.

[sunb1ind]

Mmm, its good 'till the last drop

[Doofus]

Did oil suddenly become a major source of electricity overnight? Sure you can burn it but um, we don't do it very much because there are cheaper sources(coal).
Most of our power comes from coal, nuclear, and hydroelectric. Why do foreign oil dependence conversations always turn into electricity, I never understood that.

You can go on all day about biofuel and hydrogen cars and what not, but electricity really doesn't make sense

edit:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_USA_2006.png

[Maxxthepenguin]

20% is a lot considering how much energy we use lol

[sunb1ind]

I think most people know we are using coal for the majority of electricity but nice pie chart lol.... its another old, dirty habit we need to break(not as bad as china, but still). This was included in that video I posted regarding a carbon tax and 2million windmills to power the US.

[Doofus]

A very large portion of the natural gas comes from the US domestically, so thats not in the equation.

[BIGSTIC]

Well lets see with the current gloabal feeling towards COAL and carbon emmisions the coal industry is sweating. You realize most of the coal that comes from america is the worst coal in the world. And I am pretty sure those coal companies run there equipment off of oil. I find it pretty sad that america uses so much coal.

Also I would insert this pic.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/DCP_5346.jpg

This is a jet turbine standby generator. Got to actually work on this pretty one. Its sole purpose is to turn on when the power grid start running low on power. Can burn 100k gallons of oil in no time. All I am saying is if we become more energy independent as individuals the trickle down will affect everything. If we dont need the coal for energy we dont need the oil to produce the coal.

[Alleya]

Did oil suddenly become a major source of electricity overnight? Sure you can burn it but um, we don't do it very much because there are cheaper sources(coal).
Most of our power comes from coal, nuclear, and hydroelectric. Why do foreign oil dependence conversations always turn into electricity, I never understood that.

You can go on all day about biofuel and hydrogen cars and what not, but electricity really doesn't make sense

edit:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... A_2006.png

Production and transport of all of those require burning fossil fuels. ;p

But I see what you're getting at.