Gser messing with the AH again

[ronin sparthos]

The fact of the matter is that RMT target the *popular* items, they target what people will buy because the community dictates you *need* this stuff or that stuff to be 'good'
and not a 'gimp'. Stuff like snipers, venerer, woodsman rings - are mainstream items and unless you've played long enough to know what a normal price and what an inflated price look like your just minding your business while the invisible hand (the CGF and players who take advantage of their efforts) are guiding you and taking your money while you dont even know it.

The good thing about FFXI was the fact you'd have set prices that fluxuate - you dont have people shouting to sell one item for 300k while the next persons selling the same item for 1m and it all came down to who you ran into first. Thats how ALOT of other MMOs work. Manipulating the AH goes against that aspect and the one resource (FFAH) that you could use to determine if someones fucking with the AH is frequently rigged with all kinds of shit. If thats not trying to tamper with the concept of the AH (on the smallscale level) then i dont what is.

[Burrmanchu]

I don't think the police will stand idly by if someone deliberately (and manages to) manipulates the prices on Wall Street.

LLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL thats what every stock trader does or attempts to do in one way or another every day...

and Q-FUCKING-Q to this whole thread...good lawd people

and this is advanced discussion?

[aurik]

Using falsified sales to drive up the price of something is fraud, plain and simple.

[Burrmanchu]

Using falsified sales to drive up the price of something is fraud, plain and simple.

100% correct.

But it happens every day.

And posting it on BG does....what?

Edit: No offense to anyone, this thread just has the same appeal to me as someone posting ZOMG RMT IS IN SKY...why bother..

[ringthree]

It's called capitalism and free enterprise.

No it's called fraud and manipulating records.

No.

Actually, yes it is, and gil sellers have been banned for this before. They are intentionally trying to erase the history of the items by removing all of the ones on the AH then selling them all for a higher price to themselves. Once the history is cleared, they can sell the normal items to other people for the higher price. It is price manipulation and it's very much not part of "free enterprise".

Half the problem is the people trying to pull this off, the other half are the idiots who pay the new magically higher prices. Let the buyer beware.

The item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I'm not going to sell something for 500k just because that's the norm, when Joe Blow will pay me 900k for it. Nor am I going to tell him, "if you be patient and wait until the supply goes up then the price will come down", as that should be common knowledge.

The naivety of you comment is kind of shocking. People value items based on pricing cues, not on individual "worth." When those pricing cues are removed or worse manipulated then an individual is unable to determine value.

[Deband]

Been trying to buy an Ele Torque on Phoenix for 2 wks, in this time i have reported RMT to STF twice for full reset with multiple repeat sellers on at least 3 seperate days

[Valisk]

Using falsified sales to drive up the price of something is fraud, plain and simple.

This is true but the gilsellers and/or legit players in the OP aren't selling to themselves or each other to erase the history. They are simply buying up the items when they are low and relisting them for hire prices for others to purchase and they reap the rewards. Capitalism at its finest.

As a side argument, I was stating that you don't need other people to tell you what you are or are not willing to pay.

[aurik]

Using falsified sales to drive up the price of something is fraud, plain and simple.

This is true but the gilsellers and/or legit players aren't selling to themselves or each other to erase the history.

No, wrong. GS are self-selling a single item back and forth among their mules to create false pricing cues.

[ringthree]

Using falsified sales to drive up the price of something is fraud, plain and simple.

This is true but the gilsellers and/or legit players aren't selling to themselves or each other to erase the history. They are simply buying up the items when they are low and relisting them for hire prices for others to purchase and they reap the rewards. Capitalism at its finest.

As a side argument, I was stating that you don't need other people to tell you what you are or are not willing to pay.

/facepalm

[Izzy]

Using falsified sales to drive up the price of something is fraud, plain and simple.

ding! This is not like the stock market.

If you buy, then hold and wait for the price to go up...that's fine.

If you buy, resell to yourself 20x at a higher price each time, then sell when the price is set high, that's fraud and price setting.

Two totally different things.

[ronin sparthos]

This is true but the gilsellers and/or legit players aren't selling to themselves or each other to erase the history. They are simply buying up the items when they are low and relisting them for hire prices for others to purchase and they reap the rewards. Capitalism at its finest.

This isnt exactly the full story, many times it is the RMT buying all the items up *then* erasing the records via buying/selling to eachother then putting everything up for a huge profit. Popular items are targeted due to the nature of many players - plain and simple.

[Karbuncle]

Using falsified sales to drive up the price of something is fraud, plain and simple.

Finally, someone who knows something! Thank you Aurik, Was starting wonder if anyone was going to realized they're not selling it legitly

They're sellling it to other gilsellers quickly and reselling it to other gilsellers to jack the price up, that is Fraud/illegal(Interweb law lul).

now if it was natural inflation, like for instance, a player is selling a Snipers ring for 250k while prices are 200k because he's the only one selling them at the time, the prices may slowly go up, its free trade.

But when he start selling it back in forth to his buddies over the AH for 250k, 300k, 350k, 400k until its at a suitable price and history is cleared so he can go about making large gil on what was once an inexpensive product due to falsified sales, its not free trade, is fraud.

How did this get into a Fraud/Law Debate again? Free Trade etc?
whatever, Dont care. Continue.
Just thought i'd enjoy burning 25 minutes reading a thread


Edit: God you people reply FAST
Edit2:

This is true but the gilsellers and/or legit players aren't selling to themselves or each other to erase the history. They are simply buying up the items when they are low and relisting them for hire prices for others to purchase and they reap the rewards. Capitalism at its finest.

http://www.arpc.com.au/notice_board/yourhired.gif

Hire!
(I dont hate you i just wanted a reason to post a picture ;3)

[Valisk]

Using falsified sales to drive up the price of something is fraud, plain and simple.

This is true but the gilsellers and/or legit players aren't selling to themselves or each other to erase the history.

No, wrong. GS are self-selling a single item back and forth among their mules to create false pricing cues.

Ah I see.

Edit:

[img]you're%20hired%20pic[/img]

Hire!
(I dont hate you i just wanted a reason to post a picture ;3)

lol, multi-tasking is not my friend.

[Priran]

So the basic argument here is that because people completely lack the ability to say "fuck no that is way too much" I should be forced to list what I want to sell for whatever the last 10 jackasses to sell the same item think the item is worth? Because I'm getting the hint here that no one in this thread arguing against what the RMTs are doing has played a MMO without a FFXI-style auction house, or indeed any other MMO at all.

[ronin sparthos]

The good thing about FFXI was the fact you'd have set prices that fluxuate - you dont have people shouting to sell one item for 300k while the next persons selling the same item for 1m and it all came down to who you ran into first. Thats how ALOT of other MMOs work.

[aurik]

So the basic argument here is that because people completely lack the ability to say "fuck no that is way too much" I should be forced to list what I want to sell for whatever the last 10 jackasses to sell the same item think the item is worth? Because I'm getting the hint here that no one in this thread arguing against what the RMTs are doing has played a MMO without a FFXI-style auction house, or indeed any other MMO at all.

No, not at all. Reread.

[ringthree]

So the basic argument here is that because people completely lack the ability to say "fuck no that is way too much" I should be forced to list what I want to sell for whatever the last 10 jackasses to sell the same item think the item is worth? Because I'm getting the hint here that no one in this thread arguing against what the RMTs are doing has played a MMO without a FFXI-style auction house, or indeed any other MMO at all.

/facepalm x2

[Titanss]

..There are 2 ways to look at this:

1. Price setting is bad/fraud
2. "Its a game I'm trying to make some fucking gil."

..and the argument will continue.

[Karbuncle]

..There are 2 ways to look at this:

1. Price setting is bad/fraud
2. "Its a game I'm trying to make some fucking gil."

..and the argument will continue.

I think the Arguement is about gilsellers manipulating AH Prices in order to make more of a profit..
So i dont think 2 Applies.

leaving 1 as the absolute Truth.

Unless by "im" you mean "IM A GILSELLER" in which case.

[Septimus]

You know what, I am getting very tired at what is considered intelligent discourse on this forum these days. Personally, I would like the advanced forum to be locked to the general public since the general public seems to not know how to use it properly. I consider this thread to be worth-while to be put into the Advanced Discussion thread since people from Square actually do read these forums and we want them to know that this is a pressing concern for up. But the derail into "there's nothing wrong with it" just makes it into another status quo issue. The STU has banned people for this sort of behavior before, were it acceptable they would not have banned people for auction house manipulation.

I would take it as a personal favor if certain posters attempted to be less stupid in the future.